Democrats steal Bush's idea - $300 tax rebate

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,830
491
126
Ok so let me get this straight....

When Bush gave everyone a $300 tax rebate, which was in fact simply an 'advance' on the following year's tax refund, it was an 'irresponsible' idea that did not stimulate the economy and instead only worsened our budget crisis. Booo!

Now Democrats want to give another $300 tax rebate which has no correlation to a planned tax reduction and will indeed be deficit spending. Except this time its not 'irresponsible', it will help stimulate the economy!

I love politics! haha!

Democrats Seek a Tax Rebate to Aid Growth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

January 25, 2003

Democrats Seek a Tax Rebate to Aid Growth
By DAVID FIRESTONE

ASHINGTON, Jan. 24 ? Senate Democrats took on the administration's tax cut plan in earnest today with the release of a sharply different economic stimulus proposal, calling for a $300-a-person rebate check and $40 billion in aid to states and cities.

The one-year plan, announced in Cleveland by Senator Tom Daschle, the minority leader, would spend $141 billion to stimulate the economy, in contrast to the 10-year $674 billion plan proposed by President Bush. It would drop the administration's proposal to eliminate the dividend tax, an idea with diminishing support on Capitol Hill, and concentrate its tax relief at the lower-to-middle end of the economic spectrum, with few benefits for the wealthy.

Today's plan is likely to become the Democrats' most reliable political tool once the jockeying over tax cuts begins on Tuesday with Mr. Bush's State of the Union address, even though the party lacks the votes to pass it. Although some Democrats have slightly different ideas on how to stimulate the economy, the party appears to be more unified against Mr. Bush's economic ideas than it was in 2001, and its leadership has begun to take heart in the president's slippage in opinion polls, particularly on economic issues.

The Democratic leadership in the House and Senate is in agreement on the populist appeal of tax rebates and are intended to draw the sharpest possible contrast with the administration's emphasis on cutting taxes on stock dividend.

"Economists tell us that the wealthy are far less likely to spend a tax cut than middle-income families," Mr. Daschle, a South Dakota Democrat, said today in an address to the City Club of Cleveland. "In an atmosphere of economic weakness and tight budgets, should we be giving scarce dollars to the people who can afford to put them under the mattress?"

Mr. Daschle said in an interview today that Democrats believed that they had to join the tax-cutting bandwagon to create jobs and energize a listless economy. After an election last year in which the party's ideas failed to draw widespread support, resisting any further tax cuts could have become a serious political problem for the Democrats. But Mr. Daschle said his proposed tax cuts would not increase the deficit nearly as much as would Mr. Bush's plan.

Beyond its political usefulness, Democratic leaders say, the plan includes several ideas that could form the basis of a compromise with Republicans in the Senate, the chamber that will become the playing field in the tax cut competition.

At the moment, Mr. Bush lacks the votes to pass his plan in the Senate, now that several moderate Republicans have sharply criticized the dividend tax cut and the resulting growth in the deficit. To win back those moderates and a few centrist Democrats, Republicans like Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, are already talking about cutting back on the Bush plan and paring the dividend tax cut.

Today Senator Max Baucus of Montana, the ranking Democrat on the finance panel, said he would consider a compromise with the Republicans if it contained several elements of the Democratic plan, in particular the aid to states, many of which are facing huge budget gaps.

Mr. Baucus said he was open to a compromise on cutting tax rates ? which the Daschle plan avoids ? but not at the highest levels. Last month, Mr. Baucus proposed dropping the income tax on the first $3,000 of taxable wage income, which is similar in effect to the rebate idea but would take longer to stimulate the economy. He also proposed $75 billion in aid to states.

"It's a very good start, and I don't disagree with anything in it," Mr. Baucus said of Mr. Daschle's proposals. "I think our goal here, however, is to get a broad-based bill and try to avoid a 51-vote partisan bill. So I want to work with Senator Grassley to come up with something that might get 60 votes or more, and to that end I'm open to talking about rate cuts, as long as the size of the package comes down."

Mr. Baucus's comments illustrate the continuing difficulty Mr. Daschle is likely to encounter in holding together his caucus. Democrats across Capitol Hill have spent the last month holding news conferences to announce various economic proposals, only some of which are in the overall plan released today. Earlier this week, Senators Jon Corzine of New Jersey and Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana proposed a refund of Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, and Senator Byron L. Dorgan of North Dakota proposed a rebate plan slightly different from Mr. Daschle's. Senator John B. Breaux of Louisiana, a centrist who is likely to be an influential swing vote on any tax plan, has not yet committed to any of the ideas, but aides said he wants a plan much smaller than the president's.

House Democrats, who will have less influence in the debate because of the more rigid Republican control of that chamber, issued a similar version of today's plan earlier this month. No Democrats have expressed support for the dividend tax cut, the largest component of the White House plan, and several Republicans have come out against it.

Ari Fleischer, the president's press secretary, ridiculed the multiplicity of Democratic voices today, saying it was impossible to tell which alternative would emerge as the party's plan. He also said the president was not interested in the tax rebate idea.

Mr. Grassley was only slightly less dismissive, saying he would consider the plan among many other proposals.

"Senator Daschle's announced plan appears very light on job creation, and very heavy on political theater," Mr. Grassley said.

Today's plan would extend unemployment insurance benefits to the one million workers whose benefits have run out but are still searching for a job. To encourage business investment, the plan would allow a 50 percent deduction for new equipment, an increase from the current 30 percent, and would permit small businesses to write off $75,000 in investments, up from $25,000. Small businesses would also get a 50 percent tax credit on the cost of employee health premiums.

Of the $40 billion in aid to states, $15 billion would be unrestricted, and the rest would be earmarked for domestic security, education, Medicaid and new public works. Mr. Daschle said the aid was intended to allay state tax increases that could undermine the effects of federal tax cuts.

Mr. Daschle said Democratic leaders chose the tax rebate method because of its immediate stimulus and because it was easier to understand and benefited far more people than the dividend tax cut. He also said it was more responsible than the president's "reckless" plan, and he predicted it would garner some Republican support.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Wow, with all this DDoS stuff.. looks like nobodys even paid attention..

Well.. I don't care "whos idea it was", I think their plan sounds MUCH better than Bushes.

I have a question though.. would everybody get 300$? Everybody 18 or over?
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Wow, with all this DDoS stuff.. looks like nobodys even paid attention..

Well.. I don't care "whos idea it was", I think their plan sounds MUCH worse than Bushes.

I have a question though.. would everybody get 300$? Everybody 18 or over?

:p

KK
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: Eli
Wow, with all this DDoS stuff.. looks like nobodys even paid attention..

Well.. I don't care "whos idea it was", I think their plan sounds MUCH better than Bushes.

I have a question though.. would everybody get 300$? Everybody 18 or over?

Everyone who paid taxes, I'm assuming.

Nice to know that even though my father paid 100k plus last year, my mother paid 20k plus, and I will someday pay 100k plus, we get the same refund as everyone else. Gotta love commun... errr, democracy.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Well, the fact that Democrats are even talking about a tax cut means we're making progress. They may still be tax-n-spenders, but maybe reality is fianally setting in and they're going to become tax-n-spend-less'ers.
 

RSMemphis

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2001
1,521
0
0
I guess the point is that when Bush wanted a minor tax cut, they wanted none, when he wants a major tax cut, they want a small one.

BTW, $300 pre-tax "cash back" is hardly Bush's idea, that's been around since the 60s in several countries.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Wow, with all this DDoS stuff.. looks like nobodys even paid attention..

Well.. I don't care "whos idea it was", I think their plan sounds MUCH better than Bushes.

I have a question though.. would everybody get 300$? Everybody 18 or over?

 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: classy
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.

The economy isn't entirely Bush's fault, anyone with a rudimentary understanding of macroeconomics and our political system knows that.

Actually, if you look at the proportion of who pays the most taxes, the top 5% pay 54% of federal income tax. Makes sense that if you were cutting taxes, those 5% would get a greater proportion of that money back.

Or, maybe you just want to give out more money for welfare?
 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
3,679
0
0
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Originally posted by: classy
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.

The economy isn't entirely Bush's fault, anyone with a rudimentary understanding of macroeconomics and our political system knows that.

Actually, if you look at the proportion of who pays the most taxes, the top 5% pay 54% of federal income tax. Makes sense that if you were cutting taxes, those 5% would get a greater proportion of that money back.

Or, maybe you just want to give out more money for welfare?


1. It makes sense to people who understand it.

2. People want free money.


Lethal
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,802
4,892
136
"Actually, if you look at the proportion of who pays the most taxes, the top 5% pay 54% of federal income tax. Makes sense that if you were cutting taxes, those 5% would get a greater proportion of that money back."





They'll just blow it on more ivory back scratchers.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
The rebate plan was of last year was advanced by the democrats. It was not in Pres. Bush's tax plan. He did propose the tax cut but not the rebate. The extra cost of mailing out the rebates and the confusion it created was all democratic. Pres. Bush did go along with it and sign off on it though to keep the dems happy.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
Originally posted by: classy
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.

rolleye.gif


And this is coming from you?!? You are the one that wants a race war as mentioned in previous posts. You're just an angry little fellow, aren't you.

KK

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: classy
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.

Do you think the bubble economy would have continued strong if gore was in power? You think the tech buble had anything to do with who was president? Do you think corperate scandles would have been continue to be hidden if Gore was elected?

The middle class does carry alot of weight when it ocmes to taxes. But you will find most people consider them middle class, even if they are in top 5% of income earners. A cop married to teacher will easily make it into the top 10% earners. According to the goverment they are rich, but they are middle class. Give the people that pay taxes, a tax cut. The top 50% of the earner pay 96% of the taxes.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country.

The hard work is done, just getting both sides to acknowledge that tax relief is in order. The rest is just arguing over details, such as which avenue to use to deliver the tax cuts (eliminating the double taxation of dividends vs. across-the-board $300 tax rebate check). As long as it gets $ out of Washington and into the hands of the taxpayers it doesn't matter to me too much how it's done. I'd say on that account Bush's plan is preferrable because the gross total to be be returned to taxpayers is larger than the Democrat's plan. If the amounts were equal, then i really wouldn't care whether we went with the Bush plan or the Democrat plan.
 

majewski9

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2001
2,060
0
0
Originally posted by: KK
Originally posted by: classy
The democrats have the right plan. Bush's plan favors the most wealthy with breaks who contribute the least to the economic health of the country. The middle class pay most of the bills, but yet seem to get slighted the most. Giving businesses who already have enough tax loop holes, even more benefits is stupid. And the proof is in the pudding. Bush and this adminstration sucks when it comes to economic health. We are in terrible shape and they have no answers. Bush's plan is just a larger proposition on the things he has already tried and they have failed. If you want war Bush is your man. Anything else, look some place else.

rolleye.gif


And this is coming from you?!? You are the one that wants a race war as mentioned in previous posts. You're just an angry little fellow, aren't you.

KK

I dont think he was syaing that. In fact I dont know what you are really trying to say.

 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,830
491
126
BTW, $300 pre-tax "cash back" is hardly Bush's idea, that's been around since the 60s in several countries
Oh ok. Then I guess war isn't Bush's idea either. Its been around since...I don't know....forever?
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Actually, if you look at the proportion of who pays the most taxes, the top 5% pay 54% of federal income tax. Makes sense that if you were cutting taxes, those 5% would get a greater proportion of that money back.

Not if the proposed tax cut was specifically for econimic stimulus which is the buzz word Bush is using. Now if you were cutting taxes just to cut taxes (which is what Washington should do more of), then yes the higher income people would and should get more of the cut. But Bush is selling his tax cut as econimic stimulus so it would make more sense to cut taxes which would put more money in the pocket of people who spend it, those who make less than 100k.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Originally posted by: Eli
Wow, with all this DDoS stuff.. looks like nobodys even paid attention..

Well.. I don't care "whos idea it was", I think their plan sounds MUCH better than Bushes.

I have a question though.. would everybody get 300$? Everybody 18 or over?

Everyone who paid taxes, I'm assuming.

Nice to know that even though my father paid 100k plus last year, my mother paid 20k plus, and I will someday pay 100k plus, we get the same refund as everyone else. Gotta love commun... errr, democracy.

What do your parents make/own that they paid that much in taxes?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: Zakath15
Actually, if you look at the proportion of who pays the most taxes, the top 5% pay 54% of federal income tax. Makes sense that if you were cutting taxes, those 5% would get a greater proportion of that money back.

Not if the proposed tax cut was specifically for econimic stimulus which is the buzz word Bush is using. Now if you were cutting taxes just to cut taxes (which is what Washington should do more of), then yes the higher income people would and should get more of the cut. But Bush is selling his tax cut as econimic stimulus so it would make more sense to cut taxes which would put more money in the pocket of people who spend it, those who make less than 100k.

All the money from the tax cut with get spent or invested. Very few people will actually stuff their taxcut under the matress.
 

brtspears2

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
8,659
1
81
If you want instant economy up, give the 18-25 group $300 to blow on anything. Most college students dont save anyways.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: brtspears2
If you want instant economy up, give the 18-25 group $300 to blow on anything. Most college students dont save anyways.

And what happens with saved money? It gets invested. What do investment do?

Hire people and buy products.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
YOU know what I find amazing is that sheep will follow no matter what. Our economy is in the same poor @ss condition before Clinton. Republicans couldn't balance the books at a Wawa, let alone the entire country. And before you minions start with your defense, just look at the all the failing economic situations. Some of yall won't be around to post to much longer, cause you'll be to broke to have internet access with this clown in charge. :) And as for the race war comment, we here in America always settle our disputes with war. Now don't we?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: classy
YOU know what I find amazing is that sheep will follow no matter what. Our economy is in the same poor @ss condition before Clinton. Republicans couldn't balance the books at a Wawa, let alone the entire country. And before you minions start with your defense, just look at the all the failing economic situations. Some of yall won't be around to post to much longer, cause you'll be to broke to have internet access with this clown in charge. :) And as for the race war comment, we here in America always settle our disputes with war. Now don't we?

You going to answer my questions, or are you just going to dodge them?