Democrats continue to play games with the War

[imported_Shivetya]

The new proposal is aimed at appeasing Democratic lawmakers who want to end the war immediately and are urging leaders not to back down after the president's veto. But lacking a firm endorsement by the Senate, the challenge by House Democrats seemed more for political show than a preview of another veto showdown with Mr. Bush.

WELL DUH. Of course its all political show. They are not going to offer a bill Bush will sign, they are going to make sure any bill which crosses his desk has lots of poison pills in it that they know the press will never reveal.

Just like the last bill which was vetoed. This isn't a bill about funding troops, its about porking out while hiding behind the troops. Whereas Bush would abuse our forces by staying in some cesspool of a country Pelosi and her moobats abuse the troops with their legislation of porking out and thereby not funding them.


Hey, maybe we can get lucky and the Pentagon is forced to bring them home because a funding bill never gets out of the Congress?


Two bills.
1. Only one subject, funds for the war. Straight up and down vote. Pay for it.
2. GET OUT BY X.

No riders and amendments (like trying to sneak through a minimum wage law they promised they would deliver but never really did) and no pork.

 

[Kwaipie]

I betcha they would provide all the funding needed if that asshat would admit that his administration has made a horrible mistake and the country needs Congress's help in getting out of this clusterfvck.

Of course, that will NEVER happen. Bush is guilt-free as his 28% (and dropping) approval rating contradicts.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I betcha they would provide all the funding needed if that asshat would admit that his administration has made a horrible mistake and the country needs Congress's help in getting out of this clusterfvck.

Of course, that will NEVER happen. Bush is guilt-free as his 28% (and dropping) approval rating contradicts.

Please explain how congress can help in getting us out of this 'clusterfvck'?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I betcha they would provide all the funding needed if that asshat would admit that his administration has made a horrible mistake and the country needs Congress's help in getting out of this clusterfvck.

Of course, that will NEVER happen. Bush is guilt-free as his 28% (and dropping) approval rating contradicts.

So you admit that they care nothing about funding the troops, they're just using them as a way to make the president look bad?

 

[EagleKeeper]

The House knows that the Senate will protect them from making a stupid mistake.

And if the Senate rolls over for some reason, then the partisanship with the bills will be exposed and nailed by Bush.

The Dems actually have to step up to the plate and show that they have the maturity to lead.

Otherwise they are no better than what they (as a group) replaced in terms of leadership and abdication of responsibility.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I betcha they would provide all the funding needed if that asshat would admit that his administration has made a horrible mistake and the country needs Congress's help in getting out of this clusterfvck.

So by your own admission, the intent of the Democrats is to deal yet another political blow to Bush.

 

[Kwaipie]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I betcha they would provide all the funding needed if that asshat would admit that his administration has made a horrible mistake and the country needs Congress's help in getting out of this clusterfvck.

Of course, that will NEVER happen. Bush is guilt-free as his 28% (and dropping) approval rating contradicts.

Please explain how congress can help in getting us out of this 'clusterfvck'?

Opening the purse, speaking to other governments as well as the UN about a multinational way out of the mess, showing that the USA wants help coming up with a solution and that while Bush may be the President, the entire US Congress is asking for the world's assistance in the name of the citizens of the US.

The entire world hates Bush and his policies, they know he is too egotistical to ask for advice/assistance. It is going to take the remaining leadership in this country to go to bat. Bush needs to be benched. Maybe this way, we can get a real Coalition of the Willing that doesn't include the 3 accountants from Tonga and 5 custodians from Palau that the previous CotW provided.

I know Shivetya is going to immediately harp about the corruption of the UN and how they have no power, however, I have yet to see a decent solution from him on how to get out of this conflict with no egg on our faces.

Stay the course, mission accomplished.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think the Democrats are going to play games like this for the next two years and try to ride into the White House this way.

They will keep passing meaningless resolutions or bills they know the President will veto and then claim that they tried to stop the war.
What they won?t do is try to pass a straight up or down vote on the war. It?s to risky politically to push a yes or no vote on the war and instead they will skirt around the issue and try to pretend they are really against the war, but at the same time they will keep funding it.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Opening the purse, speaking to other governments as well as the UN about a multinational way out of the mess, showing that the USA wants help coming up with a solution and that while Bush may be the President, the entire US Congress is asking for the world's assistance in the name of the citizens of the US.

The entire world hates Bush and his policies, they know he is too egotistical to ask for advice/assistance. It is going to take the remaining leadership in this country to go to bat. Bush needs to be benched. Maybe this way, we can get a real Coalition of the Willing that doesn't include the 3 accountants from Tonga and 5 custodians from Palau that the previous CotW provided.

I know Shivetya is going to immediately harp about the corruption of the UN and how they have no power, however, I have yet to see a decent solution from him on how to get out of this conflict with no egg on our faces.

Stay the course, mission accomplished.

You and Lemon-law should get together and figure out how the UN can solve all the world?s problems.

If you really think there is any way in hell that the UN or some multinational force is going to step in and save the day then you are a world class idiot.
We could hardly get a multinational force into south Lebanon where there was little risk of them being attacked. Imagine trying to get a multinational force into Iraq where the terrorists will be attacking and killing them everyday.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think the Democrats are going to play games like this for the next two years and try to ride into the White House this way.

They will keep passing meaningless resolutions or bills they know the President will veto and then claim that they tried to stop the war.
What they won?t do is try to pass a straight up or down vote on the war. It?s to risky politically to push a yes or no vote on the war and instead they will skirt around the issue and try to pretend they are really against the war, but at the same time they will keep funding it.

You mean playing games, like "Misson Accomplished" and "last throes"?

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Kwaipie]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Opening the purse, speaking to other governments as well as the UN about a multinational way out of the mess, showing that the USA wants help coming up with a solution and that while Bush may be the President, the entire US Congress is asking for the world's assistance in the name of the citizens of the US.

The entire world hates Bush and his policies, they know he is too egotistical to ask for advice/assistance. It is going to take the remaining leadership in this country to go to bat. Bush needs to be benched. Maybe this way, we can get a real Coalition of the Willing that doesn't include the 3 accountants from Tonga and 5 custodians from Palau that the previous CotW provided.

I know Shivetya is going to immediately harp about the corruption of the UN and how they have no power, however, I have yet to see a decent solution from him on how to get out of this conflict with no egg on our faces.

Stay the course, mission accomplished.

You and Lemon-law should get together and figure out how the UN can solve all the world?s problems.

If you really think there is any way in hell that the UN or some multinational force is going to step in and save the day then you are a world class idiot.
We could hardly get a multinational force into south Lebanon where there was little risk of them being attacked. Imagine trying to get a multinational force into Iraq where the terrorists will be attacking and killing them everyday.

Actually, the world class idiots are those that offer up no solution and continue to walk around with their heads up Bush's ass. Come on PJ, admit that your leader can't get us out of this and that the surge has failed. Barring that, offer up an idea or direction to get us out of this. Unless, of course, you hate the troops and like seeing them blown up on their nightly walk around AnBar province accomplishing nothing but increased bodybag counts.

 

[fskimospy]

This same discussion has been had before. Simply put, there is not enough support in the congress to pass a bill ending the war. (or funding for it, or whatever). There is not enough support in America for doing that either. Just like in a real war, if you can't just beat someone straight out you try and chip away at them which is what the democrats are doing here. They will continue to use smaller bills, etc to beat Bush up with until support is sufficiently eroded that they can pass the sort of legislation they want to.

This is politics.

Also, asking for a bill without any other provisions is sort of silly. The reason extra provisions are in it is to gain consensus; if someone's on the fence about voting, but you address another issue they have, then you both get what you want. It's called compromise, and if I'm not mistaken compromise is what everyone always claims they want in the congress. (this doesn't mean that all the provisions in the bill are great and upstanding things that any of us here want passed, but again... compromise.)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The House knows that the Senate will protect them from making a stupid mistake.

And if the Senate rolls over for some reason, then the partisanship with the bills will be exposed and nailed by Bush.

The Dems actually have to step up to the plate and show that they have the maturity to lead.

Otherwise they are no better than what they (as a group) replaced in terms of leadership and abdication of responsibility.

This goes back to the thread a made a week or so ago. The Dems have backed themselves into the corner and Rove et al. are rejoicing. Now the President won't sign ANY bill that isn't served up to him on a silver platter. The only choice the Dems have now is to keep the funding times short, cut all other matter out of the bill and keep forcing the issue. They MUST have something to show out of this or any momentum they may have had dies. Both sides are playing politics for keeps and no one really gives a crap about the troops.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Actually, the world class idiots are those that offer up no solution and continue to walk around with their heads up Bush's ass. Come on PJ, admit that your leader can't get us out of this and that the surge has failed. Barring that, offer up an idea or direction to get us out of this. Unless, of course, you hate the troops and like seeing them blown up on their nightly walk around AnBar province accomplishing nothing but increased bodybag counts.

The surge isn't even fully in place yet, or have you missed the dozens of stories point out June as the date in which all the surge forces will be in place?

After reading your anbar comment it appears that you are a few months behind on the news. There has been a steady stream of good news out of anbar over the last few months. The local sheiks have turned against AQ and are working with the local police to clean the area up.

 

[umbrella39]

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: jrenz
So you admit that they care nothing about funding the troops, they're just using them as a way to make the president look bad?

You'll never get an admission. The liberals here follow the old "Deny, Deny, Deny" mantra to a T.

In fairness, however, there are a number of lawmakers on the other side of the aisle playing politics with this war as well. It's disgusting and despicable.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: jrenz
So you admit that they care nothing about funding the troops, they're just using them as a way to make the president look bad?

You'll never get an admission. The liberals here follow the old "Deny, Deny, Deny" mantra to a T.

In fairness, however, there are a number of lawmakers on the other side of the aisle playing politics with this war as well. It's disgusting and despicable.

Bush doesn't need any help looking bad, that's seems to be his only talent and the people who can't see that fact are the ones in denial mode.

 

[theeedude]

The solution is simple. Elect a Democrat for president. Then they can bring the troops home.

 

[OrByte]

There is no such thing as a "clean bill"

there never was...before GWB.... and after...

 

[manowar821]

Meanwhile, partisan hacks continue to point fingers at once another instead of doing anything productive or mildly useful.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Meanwhile, partisan hacks continue to point fingers at once another instead of doing anything productive or mildly useful.

LOL, now that you pointed that out, apply it to yourself, go do something useful.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just more of the usual misdirection from shivetya. Bush didn't mention the pork when he vetoed the last bill- he's never vetoed a bill because of pork, ever, and has only vetoed 2 in the course of his presidency...

Although he does seem to be picking up his cues on that a little better- some slight whining is now coming from the Whitehouse in that regard...

And PJ starts up with his usual "clean bill" deception- first give me the money to continue the war, then we can talk about whether or not we'll continue it, and I'll veto anything I don't like...

Dems need to send Bush a bill authorizing the re-allocation of DoD funds to support the troops in Iraq as deemed necessary by the CinC, setting the stage for no funding at all, and putting troop safety squarely where it belongs, on GWB...

Veto that, biatch.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Otherwise they are no better than what they (as a group) replaced in terms of leadership and abdication of responsibility.

SHOCKER!

 

[Lemon law]

Lets face the facts. There are only three broad options in Iraq.

1. Support stay the course with bungler Bush----get a clue---ain't gonna happen---it will not work?

2. Withdraw and leave Iraq to its fate under a democratic plan.---very very risky after GWB&co. screwed the pooch.

3. Try non-stop diplomacy--get the neighboring countries aboard. The only hope in MHO.---try the Baker Hamilton approach to start.

With GWB&co. stuck on stupid trying the futile option #1, and with GWB&co. asleep at the switch in trying option #3, we will inevitably get option #2 very soon. And option #2 may be short term popular but a long term disaster.

I hope that explains it to you non-Prof John---now of the three options---choose and choose wisely.---or are you just a forum troll? Get off the pot or Sh!t.

 

[her209]

The Democrats should require a rollback of the tax cuts in order to fund the troops. You do support the troops don't you?