Democrats attack Roberts, forgetting their own Ginsberg precedent

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
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Day 1: Democrats Attack; Forget Past

Democrats Ignore Ginsburg Precedent And Claim Unprecedented 75,000 Plus Pages Of Documents Released Aren't Enough
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DEMS FORGET ABOUT GINSBURG PRECEDENT

Democrats Suggest Roberts Should Reveal His View On Certain Issues:

Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE): "And We'll Be Faced With Equally Consequential Decisions In The 21st Century. Can A Microscopic Tag Be Implanted In A Person's Body To Track His Every Movement? There's Actual Discussion About That. You Will Rule On That - Mark My Words - Before Your Tenure Is Over." (Sen. Joe Biden, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/12/05)

* Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE): "Can Brain Scans Be Used To Determine Whether A Person's Inclined Toward Criminality Or Violent Behavior? You Will Rule On That." (Sen. Joe Biden, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/12/05)

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY): "The Best Way I Believe Is Through Understanding Your Views About Particular Past Cases, Not Future Cases That Haven't Been Decided, But Past, Already-Decided Cases. It's Not The Only Way, But It's The Best And Most Straightforward Way." (Sen. Chuck Schumer, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/12/05)

* Schumer: "So I Hope You'll Decide To Answer Questions About Decided Cases Which So Many Other Nominees Have Done. If You Refuse To Talk About Already Decided Cases, The Burden, Sir, Is On You..." (Sen. Chuck Schumer, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/12/05)

But Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Was Confirmed To Supreme Court With Large Majority Of Republicans Despite Refusing To Provide Many Of Her Views On Issues:

Judge Ginsburg: "My Own View On The Death Penalty, I Think, Is Not Relevant To Any Question That I Would Be Asked To Decide As A Judge." (Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 7/21/93)

* Ginsburg: "[As] I Said In My Opening Remarks, My Own Views And What I Would Do If I Were Sitting In The Legislature Are Not Relevant To The Job For Which You Are Considering Me, Which Is The Job Of A Judge." (Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 7/21/93)

Ginsburg: "I Am Again Feeling In The Position Of A Skier At The Top Of That Hill Because You Were Asking Me How I Would Have Voted In Rust V. Sullivan. ... I Think I Have To Not Descend That Slope Because Once You Ask Me About This Question, This Case, Then You Will Ask Me About Another Case That's Over And Done And Another Case. So I Think That I Have To Draw The Line At The Cases I Have Decided." (Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 7/22/93)

Ginsburg: "t Would Be Wrong For Me To Say Or To Preview In This Legislative Chamber How I Would Cast My Vote On Questions The Supreme Court May Be Called Upon To Decide. Were I To Rehearse Here What I Would Say And How I Would Reason On Such Questions, I Would Act Injudiciously." (Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 7/20/93)

In 1993, Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg Was Confirmed By The U.S. Senate With An Overwhelming 96-3 Vote. (Ginsburg Nomination, Roll Call Vote #232: Confirmed 96-3: R 41-3; D 55-0, 8/3/93)

Back In 1993, Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) Affirmed Ginsburg's Right To Not Answer Questions:

Chairman Joe Biden: "[Y]ou Not Only Have A Right To Choose What You Will Answer And Not Answer, But In My View You Should Not Answer A Question Of What Your View Will Be On An Issue That Clearly Is Going To Come Before The Court In 50 Different Forms, Probably, Over The Next -- Over Your Tenure On The Court." (Sen. Joe Biden, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 7/22/93)

As Far Back As 1967, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) Said Nominees Should Defer Comments On Controversial Issues:

"During A 1967 Confirmation Debate Over Future Justice Thurgood Marshall, Kennedy Said Nominees Should Defer Any Comments They Had Concerning Controversial Issues. ... Sen. Edward Kennedy (D), Massachusetts: 'We Have To Respect That Any Nominee To The Supreme Court Would Have To Defer Any Comments On Any Matters Which Are Either Before The Court Or Very Likely To Appear Before The Court. This Has Been A Procedure Which Has Been Followed In The Past And Is One Which I Think Is Based Upon Sound Legal Precedent.'" (Fox's "Hannity & Co.," 8/3/05)
OVER 75,000 PAGES NOT ENOUGH FOR SOME DEMOCRATS

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) Demands Solicitor General Documents:

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL): "The Refusal Of The White House To Disclose Documents On 16 Specific Cases You Wrote As Deputy Solicitor General Denied This Committee More Contemporary Expressions Of Your Values. Only Your Testimony Before This Committee Can Convince Us That John Roberts Of 2005 Will Be A Truly Impartial And Open-Minded Chief Justice." (Sen. Richard Durbin, Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/12/05)

The Release Of Documents Pertaining To John G. Roberts Is Unprecedented:

The Senate Has Received Approximately 76,000 Pages Of Documents From The National Archives And Records Administration And The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Relating To Judge John Roberts' Time As Special Assistant To Attorney General William French Smith And In The White House Counsel's Office Under President Reagan.

This Is The Most Heavily Scrutinized Nominee In History. Senators Have Had An Opportunity Over The Last Two Months To Review More Documents Than In Any Previous Confirmation Process, Judge Roberts' Two Years As A Judge On The Federal Court, And His 39 Arguments Before The Supreme Court.

Former Solicitors General Agree That Documents Are Confidential And Should Not Be Released:

Deliberative Documents In The Solicitor General's Office Are At The Heart Of The Government's Need For Confidentiality. Release Of These Documents Would Jeopardize The Office's Ability To Defend The Legal Interests Of The U.S. Government And The American People.

According To All Then-Living Former Solicitors General, Documents Drafted While Working As Solicitor General Are Inappropriate And Protected By The Attorney-Client Privilege:

* "Any Attempt To Intrude Into The Office's Highly Privileged Deliberations Would Come At The Cost Of The Solicitor General's Ability To Defend Vigorously The United States' Litigation Interests-A Cost That Also Would Be Borne By Congress Itself." (Seth Waxman, Walter Dellinger, Drew Days, Ken Starr, Charles Fried, Robert Bork, And Archibald Cox, Letter To Senator Patrick Leahy, 6/24/02)

Criticism Of Democrats' Request For Roberts' Solicitor General Documents:

Chicago Tribune: "[D]emocrats Are Asking Too Much. The Administration Has Made Available Innumerable Documents From Roberts' Service In The Justice Department And The White House Counsel's Office, Records That Are Traditionally Released, And More Are On The Way." (Editorial, "The Stakes In Roberts' Memos," Chicago Tribune, 8/11/05)

* Chicago Tribune: "Privacy Here Serves The Vital Purpose Of Encouraging Honest Discussions Of Volatile Issues, By Giving Lawyers The Freedom To Muse, Speculate And Play Devil's Advocate Without Fear Of Being Forced Someday To Answer For Every Word." To Compromise The Confidentiality Of These Deliberations Would Force Government Attorneys To Be Overly Cautious By Letting Them Know Their Memos Could Come Back To Haunt Them Years Later." (Editorial, "The Stakes In Roberts' Memos," Chicago Tribune, 8/11/05)



Why don't Fat Teddy Kennedy and Chuckie Schumer just come out and say they have a different standard for evil conservatives than for Democratic appointments.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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Why Is Every Word Capitalized In Most Of Your Post?

Anyways, I don't think that you can expect most politicians to not be hypocritical.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Why do you get in such an uproar over the SC stuff? Robert's will easily get in. I think you just like taking partisan shots wherever you can, don't you? :roll:
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
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But Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Was Confirmed To Supreme Court With Large Majority Of Republicans Despite Refusing To Provide Many Of Her Views On Issues:

So she was asked and refused, now let's see what happens with Roberts, then complain, not complain about what hasn't happened.

Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Strk
Wow, RNC.org has something bad to say about Democrats; what a shocker!

Actually most of the stuff is quotes from Democrats.

And? The DNC's site does the same thing.

Seriously, this stuff is meaningless until something actually happens. A politician said something then later contradicted it? Yeah, that never happens..... You won't find a larger group of hypocrites out there, well, other than those who follow them unquestionably.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Roberts can do what he wants and each senator can do what he or she wants. This whole judicial activism, legislating from the bench, crap, is nothing but a bunch of bullsh!t. To be active or passive is totally relative to where you stand. If you are for slavery calling it unconstitutional is judicial activism and if you are pro choice overthrowing that s judicial activism. It's the same damn thing with the fruitcake Christians who say the courts are against religion. They want their bigotry to be reflected in the law because they are the only ones who really know what is GOOD. Only they are saved. Only they have the way. Every arrogant butthole has an inner need to be in control. He has been terrorized as a child and is afraid of life.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
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Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) has stated in several recent interviews that he has some tough questions himself for Roberts.

Judiciary Committee member Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) praised both of Specter's letters to Roberts. Specter, he said, "has made it clear that learning a nominee's judicial philosophy on important cases is essential in deciding whether or not he should be confirmed to a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court.

Does Specter have a different standard for evil conservatives than for Democratic appointments? Zendari, time to grow up. One of the things that Specter does not plant to ask is about Roe. Specter said would instead ask Roberts his views on whether there is a right to privacy in the Constitution. The Roe decision was based on a right to privacy.

So it would appear Zendari, that Republicans Suggest Roberts Should Reveal His View On Certain Issues as well.

:cookie:
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Why do you get in such an uproar over the SC stuff? Robert's will easily get in. I think you just like taking partisan shots wherever you can, don't you? :roll:

Don't mind him...he's just channelling Rip again. ;)

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
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Yeah the biggest flip-flopper (no surprise) has been old Ted Kennedy. He seems to have forgotten his words about 25 years ago...
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Why Is Every Word Capitalized In Most Of Your Post?

I Guess The RNC Is Relying On Octogenarians To Write And Edit Its Web Content - From What I've Seen They Are The Only People Who Use Such Random Capitalization.

I for one find the Roberts confirmation process kind of idly entertaining. He will easily be confirmed, but the Democrats have to show they have some teeth, particularly since President Bush has not announced his second nominee. They won't put up anything but token resistance, IMO, and he'll be confirmed before long.

One minor silver lining in the awful gray cloud that is Hurricane Katrina is that it may reduce President Bush's boldness about nominating some wacko to the Court - he is already so widely distrusted that it's not a good time for him to push the envelope in this regard.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Yeah the biggest flip-flopper (no surprise) has been old Ted Kennedy. He seems to have forgotten his words about 25 years ago...

He's certainly no greater a "flip-flopper" than President Bush himself.

FWIW, I think the whole concept of the "flip-flop" is completely stupid, and the only reason it gained such traction in the 2004 election is that much of the electorate are not nuanced in their own thoughts. Anyone whose opinions are immutable is someone I don't trust. That said, it was yet another brilliant stratagem by the dark genius, Karl Rove.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Strk
Wow, RNC.org has something bad to say about Democrats; what a shocker!

Actually most of the stuff is quotes from Democrats.

And you seriously expect the RNC to highlight anything complimentary about the Democrats? Or the DNC to say good things about the Republicans?

We can all see that what your cut-n-pasted is a bunch of partisan crap.

I agree with Don Vito that 1. Roberts will have an easy nomination & 2. Bush will choose carefully with his next nomination - might even be a compromise candidate.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Zendari, you are a total tool. I just haven't figured if I mean that more in the metaphorical sense or the literal sense. I guess for now, I will have to go with literal. You are being used by every right-wing source out there to spread lies, misinformation and talking points. I have an idea....actually watch the hearings and listen to those quotes in context of the entire speach!

If you would have listened to it...it's on CSPAN in rerun so you can still catch it....you would know that, although those things were said, a snippet does not a speach make. Did the Dems tell Roberts that he should answer the questions...yes. Should they have told him that....yes. Did they say that they would automatically vote against his confirmation if he didn't....NO.

On the flip side (pun intended), the Repubs were encouraging obstructionism by telling him that he doesn't have to answer any questions. Does he have to answer the questions....no. Should they have told him not to answer questions and deny the Senate and US population a complete look into his character makeup...NO. Do they have that right....yes.

I wonder if some ambitious soul would go back and quote the outrage that some of the Republicans made about Ginsberg not answering questions then and compared them to what the Dems are saying today if you would be just as fakely appalled as you try to pretend. Face it, both parties are mirror images of each other. They just trade roles depending on who is in the majority.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Why do you get in such an uproar over the SC stuff? Robert's will easily get in. I think you just like taking partisan shots wherever you can, don't you? :roll:

What's so bad about this topic? For some reason, I have a feeling that some people (not necessarily you) here would be saying something different if the people in the post were Republicans instead of Democrats.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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Gotta love the mewling from the same folks who stuffed over 60 of Clinton's nominees- jurists who never even got a judiciary committee hearing, let alone a vote or the opportunity to answer any tough questions.

As for Roberts, if he has nothing to hide, then he and his proponents would hide nothing, which is, for sure, not the case at all. So various Senators will want to hear him speak to the issues of the day. Whether he'll answer or not is up to him, and I'm sure it will figure in to vote determinations...

As for your predictions, Grounded Sailor, I think you're dead wrong. Roberts will be represented as a moderate, a compromise candidate, whether that's really true or not. Bush will then feel free to nominate some fringe-whack for the other vacancy, probably Janice Rogers Brown. She's black, female, and definitely Right Fringe, so it'll give them the race card, the gender card, and the adulation of one of their core constituencies...
 

joshw10

Senior member
Feb 16, 2004
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Face it, both parties are mirror images of each other. They just trade roles depending on who is in the majority.

Ding ding, winnar!

BTW, is it just me or is the fiscally conservative party the one that is not in majority = doesnt get to decide how the money is spent? ;)
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
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A quick search on Google turned this up. It's a pretty interesting read. And, to be honest, it does two things: 1) explains why Ginsburg wasn't overly controversial and 2) that Roberts will receive similar support. It will be an overwhelming majority, in my opinion. Besides Kennedy blowing another gasket, and I think that's about all he does now-a-days, I don't see it being a big deal at all.

I have a feeling the biggest "deal" will be from the far right Repubs trying to say "omg, loook at the Dems!" when the truth is, it will probably be just Ted playing with himself.

Unless Roberts runs off on a tirade about "thems evil-liberal beliefs," as some like to call them, he won't be that much of a blip in the end.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: joshw10
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Face it, both parties are mirror images of each other. They just trade roles depending on who is in the majority.

Ding ding, winnar!

BTW, is it just me or is the fiscally conservative party the one that is not in majority = doesnt get to decide how the money is spent? ;)

There are no fiscal conservatives in either party. They both spend like drunk bitches.
 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
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Originally posted by: DonVito


He's certainly no greater a "flip-flopper" than President Bush himself.

FWIW, I think the whole concept of the "flip-flop" is completely stupid, and the only reason it gained such traction in the 2004 election is that much of the electorate are not nuanced in their own thoughts. Anyone whose opinions are immutable is someone I don't trust. That said, it was yet another brilliant stratagem by the dark genius, Karl Rove.
Flip-flopping is nothing more then changing your opinion. As long you have a very good reason to change it and you can explain it, there is nothing wrong with that.

But I have yet to see a good reason or a plausible explanation for that "change of opinion":
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
Bush, 9/13/2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
Bush, 3/13/2002

Did he even try to explain it?



 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Roberts can do what he wants and each senator can do what he or she wants. This whole judicial activism, legislating from the bench, crap, is nothing but a bunch of bullsh!t. To be active or passive is totally relative to where you stand. If you are for slavery calling it unconstitutional is judicial activism and if you are pro choice overthrowing that s judicial activism. It's the same damn thing with the fruitcake Christians who say the courts are against religion. They want their bigotry to be reflected in the law because they are the only ones who really know what is GOOD. Only they are saved. Only they have the way. Every arrogant butthole has an inner need to be in control. He has been terrorized as a child and is afraid of life.

Look at the Fed bench in Frisco and say there is no judicial activism. Oh yea we know you love that.

So your Bigotry is acceptable against Christians? Who are you calling arrogant? LoL someone by Moonie a mirror, a tape recorder, some looong boots and .....:)