Democrats are losing members because of the entitlement mentality!

[Moonbeam]

You don't understand what a constitutional republic is. You're confusing opportunity with outcome, and worst of all, you seem to think government is an outside force, and near omnipotent.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

If that isn't about outcome and expectations, I don't know what is. I read, you get in the way of my happiness, government, and I will destroy you.

The facts are that one needs money to live and that money is earned by working. The job of the government, obviously, is to insure people have jobs or give people money or the things they need to live directly. There is no outcome where there is no opportunity other than the destruction of society. And you can see it all around you, millions of mentally disturbed people. They weren't born that way.

 

[Zaap]

Pension stacking is not illegal in any shape or form, and I'm honestly not sure how you can prevent it other then getting rid of pensions.

It being illegal or not isn't the measure for me; it's being sustainable or not (on top of all the other forms of public sector waste at taxpayer expense.)

It's also in this case *easily* preventable. One simply shouldn't be allowed to "retire" from one position in a state job and collect a pension, and not remain fully retired from any other state job. Private sector job, fine, state job with state pension, no.

Also, retirement age in the early 50's for a state fatcat is way too early- should be extended to a later age.

As the article I linked to points out, one can't retire from a job with one form of state pension and take another job that has that same pension plan without derailing the early payment of the first. That simple deterrent could be made to cover ALL state pension plans with the stroke of a pen, overnight.

But of course we all know the people who are exploiting such loopholes to enrich themselves handsomely at taxpayer expense (keep in mind all of this is while the state is constantly screaming bloody murder about how it needs more tax dollars, ie; the mating call of all Big Government bullshitters everywhere) would scream bloody murder and call out their political connections to keep such from ever being enacted.

This, and tons of unfunded liabilities that the states are shackling around the necks of future taxpayers are going to absolutely explode in the future when the true tally of bills comes due and there's no more kicking the can down the road to the next generation.

 

[HomerJS]

From young able bodied welfare recipients who refuse to work,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOGHY27JwI

To police unions in NJ who abuse the system,

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/...ice_chief_the_answer_may_surprise_you.html#/0

People are sick and tired of this entitlement mentality that is so persuasive with Democrats today.

We are losing members because people are sick and tired of paying for welfare queens and union members who game the system.

**A new police chief who makes $238,000k a year is ridiculous. And that's with full benefits.
**A 25 year old able bodied man who refuses to work and gets welfare is also ridiculous.

When people see this they start fuming. In turn, they start voting Republican.

By all means! Let's go back to losing 800K jobs/month.

 

[werepossum]

Why yes, that was a big part of it. All the other cornerstones have been laid too. The nation is being fundamentally transformed and it will not come out on the other side intact.

There is no one on your side anymore and you have a lot of company. You have ties to another nation. Take the steps needed to get out of here when the need arises. The brightest among us will get out first.

I know that some will see this post as some form of sarcasm. I assure you it's not. No leader has emerged to turn the nation around that has also been able to obtain the power needed to assume office. We desperately need one if it's not too late already.

Anyone who thinks that a Democrat or a Republican can save this nation is not paying anywhere near enough attention.

Do these two look like they're on different teams?

I tend to agree, but the fall of a nation as powerful as ours is only quick when compared to its reign. I highly doubt America truly crashes in my lifetime, and probably not in my son's - although she may shed a few states.

 

[boomerang]

I tend to agree, but the fall of a nation as powerful as ours is only quick when compared to its reign. I highly doubt America truly crashes in my lifetime, and probably not in my son's - although she may shed a few states.

How it shakes out remains to be seen. But what is important is for people to hear viewpoints that express possibilities of outcome our media is unwilling to present. Some like to label it fear mongering, extremist thinking, and with other labels that attempt to diminish the impact of the words. But they need to be heard because history shows us what is possible and we are certainly repeating it.

If we don't stop putting people in office that are corrupt to the core and whose primary concern are their own interests we will seal our fate with 100% certainty. Republicans were voted in on a wave of anti-Democrat sentiment this past November and before they even assumed power they sold out and have acted in a manner contrary to what they ran on. They should not be rewarded for this but they will be. Eventually that pendulum will swing and the nation will put back into control the other bunch of crooks that are not deserving. When, if ever, will the cycle be broken?

My goal is to in some small way make a minute number of people think. That's all. Just think that there are possibilities beyond what they have been taught by our educational system. We have outside forces trying to bring down this nation and we have far more powerful forces on the inside doing the same and we as a people are willingly going along with them both. Too many have been taught that the rich are those evil internal forces when in fact it's those that desire to be rich through shortcuts that are evil. Things are not always as they seem. I don't think that's taught anymore.

Enough for now. Like you, I won't have to be concerned with it in my lifetime. Who gives a fuck?

 

[Moonbeam]

Too many have been taught that the rich are those evil internal forces when in fact it's those that desire to be rich through shortcuts that are evil. Things are not always as they seem. I don't think that's taught anymore.

Who is ever taught that the truth is always some third way, an integration of opposites that collapses paradox at a higher level of understanding? You have categorized the problem as one of good and evil and thereby created a duality that does not exist. To come down on one side or another of an issue that does not exist is insanity. The war you fight is a fantasy. You say fuck it but you don't mean it. When you truly say fuck it and let go, you will have won. There was never a problem to begin with. You and the rest of the world have just been suckered in. The concept of good and evil didn't divide the world. It divided you.

 

[kage69]

I guess the next question is, does it negate those they've gained due to shameless republican struggles for corporate entitlements/welfare?



When exactly do I get to hear these 'fiscal conservatives' give half the shit about corporate welfare (in a time of record profits/bonuses and low taxes) they do about families needing help staying warm and fed? This isn't just about pay and benefits for state employees. Are they ever going to get tired of looking like heartless hypocrites? Yes, let's put our foot down for people who abuse the system and make no effort to become self-sufficient. Repubs need to understand that until they can apply common sense limits and stipulations to everyone (and everything) with an outstretched hand, their indignation falls of deaf ears.

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

I guess the next question is, does it negate those they've gained due to shameless republican struggles for corporate entitlements/welfare?

When exactly do I get to hear these 'fiscal conservatives' give half the shit about corporate welfare (in a time or record profits and bonuses and low taxes) they do about families needing help staying warm and fed? This isn't just about pay and benefits for state employees. Are they ever going to get tired of looking like heartless hypocrites? Yes, let's put our foot down for people who abuse the system and make no effort to become self-sufficient. Repubs need to understand that until they can apply common sense limits and stipulations to everyone (and everything) with an outstretched hand, their indignation falls of deaf ears.

Of this I definitely agree. Corporate entitlements and bailouts are no less destructive. It encourages the same risky behavior that the poor engage in when given handouts and bailouts. Taking away the risk of failure is incredibly dangerous.

This is why I often consider Republicans and Democrats to be two sides of the same coin. Both are essentially unprincipled in very important ways.

 

[soundforbjt]

How it shakes out remains to be seen. But what is important is for people to hear viewpoints that express possibilities of outcome our media is unwilling to present. Some like to label it fear mongering, extremist thinking, and with other labels that attempt to diminish the impact of the words. But they need to be heard because history shows us what is possible and we are certainly repeating it.

If we don't stop putting people in office that are corrupt to the core and whose primary concern are their own interests we will seal our fate with 100% certainty. Republicans were voted in on a wave of anti-Democrat sentiment this past November and before they even assumed power they sold out and have acted in a manner contrary to what they ran on. They should not be rewarded for this but they will be. Eventually that pendulum will swing and the nation will put back into control the other bunch of crooks that are not deserving. When, if ever, will the cycle be broken?

My goal is to in some small way make a minute number of people think. That's all. Just think that there are possibilities beyond what they have been taught by our educational system. We have outside forces trying to bring down this nation and we have far more powerful forces on the inside doing the same and we as a people are willingly going along with them both. Too many have been taught that the rich are those evil internal forces when in fact it's those that desire to be rich through shortcuts that are evil. Things are not always as they seem. I don't think that's taught anymore.

Enough for now. Like you, I won't have to be concerned with it in my lifetime. Who gives a fuck?

Please, approx 36% of the elgible people voted in the mid terms (one of the lowest turnouts), Hardly a "mandate" by the people, only a mandate of those few who voted.

The last time voter turnout was this low, the U.S. was fighting WWII

http://time.com/3576090/midterm-elections-turnout-world-war-two/

 

[Sir Thumpsalot]

Please, approx 36% of the elgible people voted in the mid terms (one of the lowest turnouts), Hardly a "mandate" by the people, only a mandate of those few who voted.

If you don't turn out to vote, then you have no right to set the mandate.

 

[Hugo Drax]

From young able bodied welfare recipients who refuse to work,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOGHY27JwI

To police unions in NJ who abuse the system,

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/...ice_chief_the_answer_may_surprise_you.html#/0

People are sick and tired of this entitlement mentality that is so persuasive with Democrats today.

We are losing members because people are sick and tired of paying for welfare queens and union members who game the system.

**A new police chief who makes $238,000k a year is ridiculous. And that's with full benefits.
**A 25 year old able bodied man who refuses to work and gets welfare is also ridiculous.

When people see this they start fuming. In turn, they start voting Republican.

I am not worried about those people. peanuts compared to the Welfare the top 0.5% folks get.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you don't turn out to vote, then you have no right to set the mandate.

And if you think you really have a mandate at that level of turnout, you're delusional.

 

[kage69]

If you don't turn out to vote, then you have no right to set the mandate.

That word has been used and abused so much I tend to avoid it. But since we have accurate historical context to look back on said votes, I think it's pretty comical to see a party that spent the last 5 years denying what the results of various elections and votes mean wrt policy direction and debate, suddenly reverse it's course 180 degrees and embrace what they've been told by the winners these last several years.

Only this time, the voter turn out for the elections in question was the lowest since 1942. The other guys are getting re-elected when unemployment is over 7%. Popular sentiment wha?

I am disappoint. I think it actually speaks to how brutal 2016 is going to be for republicans, but that's another thread.

 

[kage69]

Of this I definitely agree. Corporate entitlements and bailouts are no less destructive. It encourages the same risky behavior that the poor engage in when given handouts and bailouts. Taking away the risk of failure is incredibly dangerous.

This is why I often consider Republicans and Democrats to be two sides of the same coin. Both are essentially unprincipled in very important ways.

*applause*


Well said good sir. Also, welcome to the forum.

 

[Atreus21]

As a country we are going to be paying for two things: Entitlements and our military.

I don't think this can last forever.

Our military is nowhere even close to being as expensive as our entitlements.

 

[IEC]

Democrats. Republicans. Left hand, meet right hand.

Both are robbing you blind and blaming the other for it.

 

[Jhhnn]

From young able bodied welfare recipients who refuse to work,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOGHY27JwI

To police unions in NJ who abuse the system,

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/...ice_chief_the_answer_may_surprise_you.html#/0

People are sick and tired of this entitlement mentality that is so persuasive with Democrats today.

We are losing members because people are sick and tired of paying for welfare queens and union members who game the system.

**A new police chief who makes $238,000k a year is ridiculous. And that's with full benefits.
**A 25 year old able bodied man who refuses to work and gets welfare is also ridiculous.

When people see this they start fuming. In turn, they start voting Republican.

Gotta love it. We begin the video with a rant from a union doorman who goes on about people looking for the welfare office while he comes to work every day. He didn't say he did much of anything when he got there. It's an easy job if you're good at taking shit from your economic betters, however. He's so accustomed to his patrons looking down their noses at him that he thinks he's supposed to do it to everybody else. Which segues into interviews with a couple of boneheads that were undoubtedly screened from a lot of interviews, probably dozens, that didn't serve the maker's purposes, obviously.

When you've got a tarbrush, it's important to slap as many people as possible with it when riling up equally boneheaded wingnuts, I'm sure.

We then move on to a story about NJ police Chiefs. When the mayor blames the union for the chief's salary, who isn't in the union, the usual suspects gulp that right down because it fits with what they want to hear, even though there's been no demonstration of anything factual connecting the chief's salary to anybody else's.

We then leap to the ebils of double dipping pensions, unfunded liabilities, lions, tigers & bears! Oh My! And entitlements!

All of which means Democrats are losing members because they've seen the logic of disjointed right wing ranting.

Somewhere in Glenbeckistan, I'm sure.

 

[OverVolt]

Gotta love it. We begin the video with a rant from a union doorman who goes on about people looking for the welfare office while he comes to work every day. He didn't say he did much of anything when he got there. It's an easy job if you're good at taking shit from your economic betters, however. He's so accustomed to his patrons looking down their noses at him that he thinks he's supposed to do it to everybody else. Which segues into interviews with a couple of boneheads that were undoubtedly screened from a lot of interviews, probably dozens, that didn't serve the maker's purposes, obviously.

When you've got a tarbrush, it's important to slap as many people as possible with it when riling up equally boneheaded wingnuts, I'm sure.

We then move on to a story about NJ police Chiefs. When the mayor blames the union for the chief's salary, who isn't in the union, the usual suspects gulp that right down because it fits with what they want to hear, even though there's been no demonstration of anything factual connecting the chief's salary to anybody else's.

We then leap to the ebils of double dipping pensions, unfunded liabilities, lions, tigers & bears! Oh My! And entitlements!

All of which means Democrats are losing members because they've seen the logic of disjointed right wing ranting.

Somewhere in Glenbeckistan, I'm sure.

Political polarization caused sections of the repubs to break off and go crazy, and it was inevitable it would happen to the democrats as well.

Looks like that time has arrived.

 

[MongGrel]

Give me those Obama bucks.

As a country we are going to be paying for two things: Entitlements and our military.

I don't think this can last forever.

Wow, I didn't realize it was that bad. Isn't this how Rome came undone? Corruption!

What ever happened to Stewox ?

This seems pretty familiar these days

 

[MovingTarget]

Our military is nowhere even close to being as expensive as our entitlements.

^ Citation Needed.

This topic may require a separate thread. I'll refrain from putting in my own $0.02 on that as a real "Guns vs. Butter" economics debate is a little too off topic for this thread.

 

[1prophet]

Democrats are losing members because they abandoned the middle class which kept them in power for over 40 years after WW2, so they can be republican-lite corporate whores.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Please, approx 36% of the elgible people voted in the mid terms (one of the lowest turnouts), Hardly a "mandate" by the people, only a mandate of those few who voted.



http://time.com/3576090/midterm-elections-turnout-world-war-two/

The election results were a clear rebuke of Obama and Democrats in general....and if there was a mandate, it was for Republicans to stop them and pass sensible legislation. All you're doing is rationalizing your butthurt imo.

 

[thraashman]

The election results were a clear rebuke of Obama and Democrats in general....and if there was a mandate, it was for Republicans to stop them and pass sensible legislation. All you're doing is rationalizing your butthurt imo.

So then the 2008 and 2012 were a clear rebuke of Republicans then? You ever notice when a larger percentage of the population votes it tends to be significantly more for Democrats?

 

[trenchfoot]

The election results were a clear rebuke of Obama and Democrats in general....and if there was a mandate, it was for Republicans to stop them and pass sensible legislation. All you're doing is rationalizing your butthurt imo.

You're projecting a view based on a personal agenda that, to me, does not fit with what really happened. Again, this past election's turnout featured a few key things that you are dismissing to make your point: lowest turnout in history, a set of circumstances where Dem seats up for election far outnumbered Repub ones and the election being midterms where Dems never do well to begin with, all of which favored the Repubs.

With that in mind, I really think it a bit of a stretch to consider the election a "clear rebuke of Obama and Democrats".

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So then the 2008 and 2012 were a clear rebuke of Republicans then?

No. Obama had a mandate in 2008 based on his promises...he didn't win because it was a clear rebuke of Republicans. 2012 less so...but the incumbent usually wins anyway.

You ever notice when a larger percentage of the population votes it tends to be significantly more for Democrats?

Yes, of course I noticed that. Your point?