Democrats and North Korea

[daniel49]

If this is a repost I apologize, but I thought it was a funny video.
Edit:
oops was laughing too hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RJRSPlhSAk

 

[ProfJohn]

Link?

EDIT: Dual post, put on your flame suit before the left burns you at the stake.

 

[nageov3t]

why would the left flame him?

the video seems to be a caricature on the ragin' righties like hannity who have this belief that liberals, like, actually follow Christian values and want to turn the other cheek or some crazy nonsense like that.

 

[daveymark]

It's funny because it's true - thanks for the vid, OP :thumbsup:

It's a tie for funniest scene between Albright changing the terrorist's tire, or Albright singing Kumbayah with the terrorists

LMAO

now to sit back and watch the resident/closet lib appeasers on this board get their panties in the twist over this spoof :laugh:

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: daveymark
It's funny because it's true - thanks for the vid, OP :thumbsup:

It's a tie for funniest scene between Albright changing the terrorist's tire, or Albright singing Kumbayah with the terrorists

LMAO

now to sit back and watch the resident/closet lib appeasers on this board get their panties in the twist over this spoof :laugh:

No thanks, it's much more fun to watch you chickhawks thump your chests.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daveymark
It's funny because it's true - thanks for the vid, OP :thumbsup:

It's a tie for funniest scene between Albright changing the terrorist's tire, or Albright singing Kumbayah with the terrorists

LMAO

now to sit back and watch the resident/closet lib appeasers on this board get their panties in the twist over this spoof :laugh:

I don't know how true it is but it sure is funny.

 

[magomago]

AFAIK from a few of my korean friends, they loved clinton because he allegedly did more to make progress in the Korea situation than ynone in recent times. Its primiarily why they supported him, but what was supposed to have happened (again to them - korean politics wasn't something i cared about...and only around that time was i really getting involved into politics) was that when bush took office he immediately took a hard line stance against the north and went back on a lot of what Clinton attempted to construct...and 5 years later we have bore the fruits of Bush's (non) effort

Correct me thouhg - I'm sure this isn't purely non biased.

 

[ProfJohn]

Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

On how many threads do we have to point this out?
We make a deal with NK that puts everything in their favor. Essentially we would give them, food and energy assistance and help them build Nuclear power plants to provide power for their people, and in exchange the North would stop enrichment of nuclear material for bomb making purposes.

In 2002, a Bush envoy presents evidence to the North that we know they are cheating.
Check out the timeline
?In October 2002, a U.S. delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly visted North Korea to confront the North Koreans with the U.S. assessment that they had a uranium enrichment program?
?On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. On February 10, 2005, North Korea finally declared that it had manufactured nuclear weapons as a "nuclear deterrent for self-defence"

It is obvious that they had been working the material for the nuclear weapons for years. There is no way that in the course of 4 months they enriched enough nuclear material from scratch to make a bomb.

Link

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

On how many threads do we have to point this out?
We make a deal with NK that puts everything in their favor. Essentially we would give them, food and energy assistance and help them build Nuclear power plants to provide power for their people, and in exchange the North would stop enrichment of nuclear material for bomb making purposes.

In 2002, a Bush envoy presents evidence to the North that we know they are cheating.
Check out the timeline
?In October 2002, a U.S. delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly visted North Korea to confront the North Koreans with the U.S. assessment that they had a uranium enrichment program?
?On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. On February 10, 2005, North Korea finally declared that it had manufactured nuclear weapons as a "nuclear deterrent for self-defence"

It is obvious that they had been working the material for the nuclear weapons for years. There is no way that in the course of 4 months they enriched enough nuclear material from scratch to make a bomb.

Link

It's all Clinton's Fault (TM). He should have been all knowing, like President Bush, and realized the DPRK would cheat on the deal.

Or he should have been more conniving, like Bush, and expected the cheating. Clinton's lying was, after all, in the horrible and immoral field of sex and blowjobs. Bush is more adept at lying on matters of national importance.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

On how many threads do we have to point this out?
We make a deal with NK that puts everything in their favor. Essentially we would give them, food and energy assistance and help them build Nuclear power plants to provide power for their people, and in exchange the North would stop enrichment of nuclear material for bomb making purposes.

In 2002, a Bush envoy presents evidence to the North that we know they are cheating.
Check out the timeline
?In October 2002, a U.S. delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly visted North Korea to confront the North Koreans with the U.S. assessment that they had a uranium enrichment program?
?On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. On February 10, 2005, North Korea finally declared that it had manufactured nuclear weapons as a "nuclear deterrent for self-defence"

It is obvious that they had been working the material for the nuclear weapons for years. There is no way that in the course of 4 months they enriched enough nuclear material from scratch to make a bomb.

Link

It's all Clinton's Fault (TM). He should have been all knowing, like President Bush, and realized the DPRK would cheat on the deal.

Or he should have been more conniving, like Bush, and expected the cheating. Clinton's lying was, after all, in the horrible and immoral field of sex and blowjobs. Bush is more adept at lying on matters of national importance.

How could you not trust a face like that ? he has such sincere eyes.

 

[theeedude]

Does Bill Clinton need to go on Fox again to shut the conservatives up over NK like he did with 9/11?

 

[Jhhnn]

Love this commonly accepted bit of Bush Admin agitprop-

Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

Uhh, no. They changed policy long before the allegations were made, early in their Admin, and have never offered evidence of any kind- merely allegations. Standard rightwing tactics- take whatever direction you want, cast about for plausible justifications later... Make sure they're "secret"- "National Security" and all that works everytime.

And it's not as if the Admin has proven themselves to be trustworthy since that time, either- they were lyin', cheatin', and stealin' on their way into the oval office, and that hasn't changed for the better- if anything, it's gotten worse...

Belief in the Bush Admin redefines the whole idea of "Faith-Based" anything, that's for sure. Their supporters seem to be capable of the most amazing states of Denial ever imagined.

 

[maluckey]

Jhnn,

What are you smoking?

Uhh, no. They changed policy long before the allegations were made, early in their Admin, and have never offered evidence of any kind- merely allegations. Standard rightwing tactics- take whatever direction you want, cast about for plausible justifications later... Make sure they're "secret"- "National Security" and all that works everytime. And it's not as if the Admin has proven themselves to be trustworthy since that time, either- they were lyin', cheatin', and stealin' on their way into the oval office, and that hasn't changed for the better- if anything, it's gotten worse...

So you BLAME Bush for finding out that NK WAS cheating, then blame him for doing something about it. Then you blame him for NOT telling you about knowing that NK was cheating on the agreements? What PROOF more do you need that Bush was right about NK? There is concrete proof that ALL previous agreements were cheated on, and that ALL previous Presidents failed to contain NK.

 

[Aisengard]

Sigh. Treat a country like they are 'evil' and don't be surprised when, to you, that's what they become.

And people still don't get it.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: maluckey
So you BLAME Bush for finding out that NK WAS cheating, then blame him for doing something about it. Then you blame him for NOT telling you about knowing that NK was cheating on the agreements? What PROOF more do you need that Bush was right about NK? There is concrete proof that ALL previous agreements were cheated on, and that ALL previous Presidents failed to contain NK.

Ain't that the truth. A typical liberal for ya.

They'll blame Bush for everything from a slow flushing toilet to a flickering light bulb.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Termagant

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

On how many threads do we have to point this out?
We make a deal with NK that puts everything in their favor. Essentially we would give them, food and energy assistance and help them build Nuclear power plants to provide power for their people, and in exchange the North would stop enrichment of nuclear material for bomb making purposes.

In 2002, a Bush envoy presents evidence to the North that we know they are cheating.
Check out the timeline
?In October 2002, a U.S. delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly visted North Korea to confront the North Koreans with the U.S. assessment that they had a uranium enrichment program?
?On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. On February 10, 2005, North Korea finally declared that it had manufactured nuclear weapons as a "nuclear deterrent for self-defence"

It is obvious that they had been working the material for the nuclear weapons for years. There is no way that in the course of 4 months they enriched enough nuclear material from scratch to make a bomb.

Link

It's all Clinton's Fault (TM). He should have been all knowing, like President Bush, and realized the DPRK would cheat on the deal.

Or he should have been more conniving, like Bush, and expected the cheating. Clinton's lying was, after all, in the horrible and immoral field of sex and blowjobs. Bush is more adept at lying on matters of national importance.

There were a LOT of conservatives who were totally against this plan in the first place because they expected Kim to cheat.
The deal lacked enough safe guards to prevent the North from cheating. On a whole the deal was a total failure that was entered into with typical ideas of liberal utopia
Read what Carter said about the deal.

But I said this when I got back from North Korea, and people said that I was naive or gullible and so forth. I don't think I was. In my opinion, this was one of those perfect agreements where both sides won and got what they wanted

Well since the north cheated me now KNOW he was naive and gullible.

 

[Blackjack2000]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bush changed our policy when we found out that NK had been cheating on their end of the deal since near the beginning.

Bush "found out" Pyongyang was cheating because they told him they would. From the very article you linked to

"When by 1999 economic sanctions had not been lifted and full diplomatic relations between U.S. and North Korea had not been established, North Korea warned that they would resume nuclear research unless the U.S. kept up its end of the bargain."

On how many threads do we have to point this out?
We make a deal with NK that puts everything in their favor. Essentially we would give them, food and energy assistance and help them build Nuclear power plants to provide power for their people, and in exchange the North would stop enrichment of nuclear material for bomb making purposes.

How is that putting "everything in their favor"? The food and electricity provided by the light water reactors represent basic essentials for the NK population.

In 2002, a Bush envoy presents evidence to the North that we know they are cheating.
Check out the timeline
?In October 2002, a U.S. delegation led by Assistant Secretary of State James A. Kelly visted North Korea to confront the North Koreans with the U.S. assessment that they had a uranium enrichment program?
?On January 10, 2003, North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. On February 10, 2005, North Korea finally declared that it had manufactured nuclear weapons as a "nuclear deterrent for self-defence"

The North Koreans stated Kelly made his assertions in an arrogant manner, but failed to produce any evidence such as satellite photos, and they responded denying North Korea planned to produce nuclear weapons using enriched uranium.

It is obvious that they had been working the material for the nuclear weapons for years. There is no way that in the course of 4 months they enriched enough nuclear material from scratch to make a bomb.

Link

Bolded what you left out from the article. The delegation went to NK in October of 2002, NK announced they had a bomb in Febuary of 2005. How is that 4 months?

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. The Bush envoy allegedly presented evidence to the NKoreans that the Admin knew the Nkoreans were cheating- but we've never seen it, just heard the allegations... kinda like Iraqi WMD's and the Iraqi nuclear program... Accusations are the Bushistas forte... Proof? They don't need no steenking proof when their worshippers just lockstep in behind....

When will people start to wake up, realize that the Bush Admin is not to be trusted in their prounouncements about anything? Or is the trance completely overpowering?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: maluckey
So you BLAME Bush for finding out that NK WAS cheating, then blame him for doing something about it. Then you blame him for NOT telling you about knowing that NK was cheating on the agreements? What PROOF more do you need that Bush was right about NK? There is concrete proof that ALL previous agreements were cheated on, and that ALL previous Presidents failed to contain NK.

Ain't that the truth. A typical liberal for ya.

They'll blame Bush for everything from a slow flushing toilet to a flickering light bulb.

Bush labled them as part of the Axis of Evil, then he sits back and refuses to talk to them. Indeed, NK even plays his PR game and beats him at it by claiming they were afraid of an attack by the USso they needed and now have nukes.

Brilliant strategy. At least they didn't cheat on him. :laugh:

 

[Jhhnn]

So you BLAME Bush for finding out that NK WAS cheating, then blame him for doing something about it. Then you blame him for NOT telling you about knowing that NK was cheating on the agreements? What PROOF more do you need that Bush was right about NK? There is concrete proof that ALL previous agreements were cheated on, and that ALL previous Presidents failed to contain NK.

Exquisite example of circular reasoning. First, accept assertion as fact, then use that assertion to prove that it is fact.

The Church says the Earth is flat, therefore the Earth is, indeed, flat.

Same sort of logic... No wonder the Bush Faction is all hot on Faith-Based initiatives... All you need to do is Believe...

 

[her209]

North Korea: A Chronology of Events, October 2002-December 2004

 

[maluckey]

1EZduzit

So because NK cheated on former presidents, Bush and Co. should give them more support??

Jhhnn,

Bush, nor any other president is required to report to you or anyone else on what they know or don't know. My personal guess is that Clinton knew, and Bush knew that NK was cheating, therefore, Bush figured that he shouldn't trust them anymore to follow any agreement. Simply said, if someone is a liar and a cheat, why should you go into business with them?

 

[Jhhnn]

Simply repeating circular logic doesn't change the fact that it's circular logic, Maluckey.

You're very much a Believer in the Bush Agenda, right? And no amount of thought or argument will sway your Faith in the slightest. And you pretty much summed it up wrt the Bush Admin, even though you didn't know it, with the comment about Liars and Cheats. Their false accusations about Iraq are pretty much irrefutable proof of duplicity on their part... but you're obviously in denial about that, too...

Faith precludes logic, all too often, and various social predators depend on that phenomenon, including the Bush Admin...

 

[maluckey]

SO, what in the world does Iraq have to do with NK cheating as far back as Clintons presidency? Exactly...nohing at all. Diversion from the topic when you have nothing to offer..."LOOK!! A convenient distraction from the topic!!!"

NK cheated, Bush caught him, Bush refused to deal with him without International support (six party talks). NK refused talks and continued cheating. Jhhnn continues to not see anything outside of "Bush Lied!!" and falls upon own sword in process. Your killing yourself...leave it alone and troll in another thread, or stay on topic in this one.

 

[Jhhnn]

Beat that drum, Maluckey- the underlying issue is whether or not the Bush Admin is trustworthy, if their word alone constitutes proof of any kind. Given that they exaggerated and lied about Iraq, it seems to me that any reasonable person who's not a True Believer would think twice about believing any claim they make which lacks independent confirmation...

Do you have any wrt the claims they made about NKorea at the time in question?

Didn't think so. Apparently, your entire conceptual structure would collapse if you even questioned the truthfulness of those you apparently worship...

Every once in a while, I meet an old guy who'll tell you that McCarthy was right, that the govt was and is full of Commies... Faith is immutable, irrefutable, and extremely convenient for people who can't think in a straight line...