Democratic Party - Clueless & Feckless - is the D party done?

[Brainonska511]

Democrats suck at explaining why people do better under their policies, and now Trump is going to take credit for any economic successes actually enabled by Biden's policies. Hell, many people think things are better simply because Trump won, despite none of the measurable factors changing.

Democrats just have to stop explaining: if you're explaining, you're losing. Stick to presenting a vision for something, but nebulous enough that the median idiot voter can fill in the blanks with whatever they want. And just stay on message. Someone tries to bring something else up - doesn't matter, circle back to the core messages. This is not a forgiving media environment - don't open up more avenues for attacks and distractions.

Plenty of Trump voters decided that they thought he was just kidding on the odious things they didn't like, and just assumed he would do stuff they liked (even when it was demonstrably untrue).

 

[ivwshane]

make a poll, I don't think most people here are as ignorant as you on this subject.

so if facts don't matter and the candidate doesn't matter, how do you propose the Dems win elections btw? why even have a primary, maybe just throw a dart at a wall of names?

Now you are asking the right questions! So, how do you win in that type of environment? If you can figure that out then you will start to see some results.

 

[MrSquished]

Now you are asking the right questions! So, how do you win in that type of environment? If you can figure that out then you will start to see some results.

I already answered part of the reason how to win. You are the one propsing 1)facts don't matter and 2)the candidate doesn't matter.

So tell us, what does matter in winning the next elections? Or since none of it matters, why do we even need a democratic party at this point, should we just disband it?

I suspect you won't answer this question honestly.

 

[ivwshane]

I already answered part of the reason how to win. You are the one propsing 1)facts don't matter and 2)the candidate doesn't matter.

So tell us, what does matter in winning the next elections? Or since none of it matters, why do we even need a democratic party at this point, should we just disband it?

I suspect you won't answer this question honestly.

I don’t have an answer other than, you fight propaganda and mass misinformation with counter propaganda and playing offense with the truth, that means getting your message and facts out first to set the narrative. How do you do that when the state will now have two social media platforms under their control and who already have a traditional media network that is willing to parrot your lies and spread misinformation, along with foreign adversaries who are hell bent on exploiting our free speech rights and who spew hate, doubt, misinformation, and outright lies?

 

[MrSquished]

I don’t have an answer other than, you fight propaganda and mass misinformation with counter propaganda and playing offense with the truth, that means getting your message and facts out first to set the narrative. How do you do that when the state will now have two social media platforms under their control and who already have a traditional media network that is willing to parrot your lies and spread misinformation, along with foreign adversaries who are hell bent on exploiting our free speech rights and who spew hate, doubt, misinformation, and outright lies?

I've mentioned countless times that messaging is hugely important and about the right-wing media sphere.

But you don't think the right candidate makes any difference for being the torch bearer for this better and more effective type of messaging to at least pierce through some of the noise.

So how do you think the Democrats should pick their candidate next since it doesn't matter who the hell out is? Should we just throw darts at a board? I mean why bother wasting time on choosing a candidate if it doesn't matter who they are.
Please elaborate

 

[ivwshane]

You aren’t listening because you keep ignoring the issue. If you were listening you’d understand that the issue exists regardless of who the candidate is. Fix the underlying issue and then you can focus on who the candidate is.

As far as candidates, almost every Democrat candidate has been more than qualified.

 

[MrSquished]

You aren’t listening because you keep ignoring the issue. If you were listening you’d understand that the issue exists regardless of who the candidate is. Fix the underlying issue and then you can focus on who the candidate is.

As far as candidates, almost every Democrat candidate has been more than qualified.

So Just counter the right ring media sphere and message better and then it doesn't matter what candidate we put forward.

That's what you think?

And obviously it doesn't matter how a candidate themselves message because candidates don't matter.

Imagine thinking messaging matters but then not thinking the actual torch bearer of that messaging doesn't matter who they are.

 

[Indus]

I think appointing Karrine Jean Pierre was a massive mistake as well.. she always seems to come across as "bitchy".

Shoulda gone with someone who can truly come across as compassionate even in the face of idiocy. Not just rely on bar graphs and dismiss everything.

 

[ivwshane]

So Just counter the right ring media sphere and message better and then it doesn't matter what candidate we put forward.

That's what you think?

And obviously it doesn't matter how a candidate themselves message because candidates don't matter.

Imagine thinking messaging matters but then not thinking the actual torch bearer of that messaging doesn't matter who they are.

It’s like talking to a brick wall with you.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are stuck in total cognitive dissonance if you think candidates don't matter. I mean I hate to break it to you, but that is literally the opposite of reality. It's exactly why Trump won! Why do you think he won the primary again? Trump the candidate has the following. Nobody else in the GQP right now can do the same.

It's pretty easy to explain why Biden won in 2020, and you think it's a tough question. There was a lot of anti-Trump sentiment but Trump still got a ton of votes. And it was a fucking close call of an election. Biden the candidate was a solid foil to trump - one he was associated with Obama, he was a well-respected elder, he was a safe choice and had appeal to moderates, his personality was safe, he was not an unknown, he was a straight white guy, he had the right kind of experience, and he was a calming influence to those seeking a counterpoint to Trump. Yes, him not being perceived as very liberal was another plus - and that is tied to HIM AS THE CANDIDATE. He overall had the right vibe. And he was still relatively ok looking for his age.

There is a very big reason why on Super Tuesday a bunch of other candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden to prevent Sanders from potentially winning- because the specific CANDIDATE mattered a lot to the Dems.

It's relatively bonkers to think that candidates don't matter.

As far as knowing the facts, I have already agreed that we have low information voters overall. I did meet some informed ones but they were the minority. But because FACTS matter less, that is exactly why the CANDIDATE matters more! When facts are not as relevant, it's personality and candidate that is what matters - And that right there is a simple fact.

If facts don’t matter how could facts like one candidate is better than another, as you imply, matter. Differences are facts to people who can see them, not to people whe can’t see facts. People voted for Trump for reasons they had no idea about, mostly because people who feel self hate are wretched to themselves, because they seek revenge, because they feel they don’t deserve to be loved.

If I tell you anything but that you are a worthless asshole you won’t believe me.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think appointing Karrine Jean Pierre was a massive mistake as well.. she always seems to come across as "bitchy".

Shoulda gone with someone who can truly come across as compassionate even in the face of idiocy. Not just rely on bar graphs and dismiss everything.

Right, come across as compassionate…….. HaHa….There’s no such thing as the real thing, right?

You see that cross up there on that hill. I have one life and it has just begun, but I going to get myself nailed up there so my followers will be saved to diddle children.

Maybe keep your compassion if such a thing exists hidden out of sight least self haters try to rob you blind. Pearls before swine, remember?

 

[MrSquished]

If facts don’t matter how could facts like one candidate is better than another, as you imply, matter. Differences are facts to people who can see them, not to people whe can’t see facts. People voted for Trump for reasons they had no idea about, mostly because people who feel self hate are wretched to themselves be use they seek revenge because they feel they don’t deserve to be loved.

If I tell you anything but that you are a worthless asshole you won’t believe me.

Equating facts as in facts about policies and things like economic data to the 'facts about the candidate' as in their presence, personality, charisma, messaging, vibe, demographics, etc.... is not a reasonable comparison.

 

[Moonbeam]

Equating facts as in facts about policies and things like economic data to the 'facts about the candidate' as in their presence, personality, charisma, messaging, vibe, demographics, etc.... is not a reasonable comparison.

Right, another fact that doesn’t matter. You don’t get to be the only one who is impervious to reason. Dont piss into the wind.

There was an old owl who sat in an oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard
Why can’t we be like that wise old bird

Could it be because we think we know
What we do not
That what we lack is humility
That all our hoots and ‘cares-abouts’
Are the plumage of peacocks

 

[MrSquished]

Right, another fact that doesn’t matter. You don’t get to be the only one who is impervious to reason. Dont piss into the wind.

There was an old owl who sat in an oak
The more he saw the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard
Why can’t we be like that wise old bird

Could it be because we think we know
What we do not
That what we lack is humility
That all our hoots and ‘cares-abouts’
Are the plumage of peacocks

Before I put words into your mouth, it sure feels like you are agreeing with the point being discussed here that 'it doesn't matter who the actual candidate is'

Can you answer if that is indeed what you are agreeing with here?

 

[gothuevos]

Biggest Democrat mistake in the past 8 years? Too many to list.

The good news is that we won't have to hear from them for a generation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Before I put words into your mouth, it sure feels like you are agreeing with the point being discussed here that 'it doesn't matter who the actual candidate is'

Can you answer if that is indeed what you are agreeing with here?

First off, thank you for a question I regard as of real quality. I hope I can do it justice.

First off, I feel a deep sadness the election went as it did and my life experience tells me that behind sadness there is anger and deeper still pure rage and that all three of those emotional states are there as psychic protection against childhood traumatic pain.

So what I want to say is complicated by this. In part, because the emotional issues can’t really be fixed by political means, but that life could be made less traumatic for children in the future, who runs both matters and does not matter.

On the one hand in order to elect a person who has the awareness as to how to properly make life better tomorrow, there has to be a majority of votes for such a person. That requires a majority of people consciously aware of who is the best candidate to achieve such a goal.

But clearly that consciousness was not there and I believe was not there even among Democrats. Therefore the situation is hopeless, but for other reasons, not serious. A German saying from the trenches WW1.

Why not serious, because you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still, etc, hopeless as I said.

So whenever we become emotionally attached to the need to change the world it relates to a hope change will cure our broken hearts, but that won’t actually happen, nor do we really want it to. We define ourselves by our misery. We suffer from victim mentality, old men yelling at clouds.

The only thing that can really change the world is a change in ourselves. That should always come first. I am the only person I can change. We create what we fear when we react emotionally unaware of the real source of our rage.

To awaken is to enter a world of gratitude and forgiveness , to know that nothing can be other than it is, that the only change possible is within your own conscious awareness.

That news needs to reach more people, in my opinion, because so very few people are ever even exposed ever to such thinking.

We live in Plato’s cave. Only love can mend a broken heart and the source of love is in your own heart. I want you to vote as someone who has voted first for yourself. That’s an election you can win. Any other elections will take care of themselves.

 

[MrSquished]

I respect a ton of what Pelosi has accomplished, especially compared to Chuck the Putz, but she can go fuck herself for this

 

[KMFJD]

I respect a ton of what Pelosi has accomplished, especially compared to Chuck the Putz, but she can go fuck herself for this

View attachment 113135

she needed to retire a decade ago...fucking gerontocracy is getting to soviet levels of ineptitude

 

[hal2kilo]

she needed to retire a decade ago...fucking gerontocracy is getting to soviet levels of ineptitude

View attachment 113359

She just should have left when she supposedly turned over the reins to Jeffries. Plus, the incident in Luxemburg, just points out how old she is. Now she has a bionic hip.

 

[MrSquished]

Fuck Pelosi, AOC lost.

And also fuck the Dem house reps, except the 81 who voted for AOC. These fucking people suck.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Fuck Pelosi, AOC lost.

And also fuck the Dem house reps, except the 81 who voted for AOC. These fucking people suck.

I think it's pretty clear Dems need a change of guard

 

[Jaskalas]

Fuck Pelosi, AOC lost.

Ranking positions are based on age, are they not?

 

[manly]

She just should have left when she supposedly turned over the reins to Jeffries. Plus, the incident in Luxemburg, just points out how old she is. Now she has a bionic hip.

Yeah although I care about actual mental acuity, and not just age. But everyone lost their shit over Joe Biden's "senility," and Nancy Pelosi is even older than Joe.

I hadn't noticed any slippage in her speaking, but at some point enough is enough. Reminds me of the fact someone cooked up about Joe Biden earlier this year. He was born closer to the Battle of Gettysburg than he is to present day!

* Don't get me wrong, the debate was a debacle and he had to retire. But I was referring to the barbs and vibes that long preceded that disastrous night.

 

[Moonbeam]

Before I put words into your mouth, it sure feels like you are agreeing with the point being discussed here that 'it doesn't matter who the actual candidate is'

Can you answer if that is indeed what you are agreeing with here?

Another answer is that the Democrats are incapable of fielding a candidate who if elected would know what really needs to change, because they would not support such a person, would not be able to identify one, or find anybody with such knowledge that would want the job if they did. Politics isn't about what matters. It is a very limited art, the art of the possible and little can be done for people who are asleep.

Pelosi is right to worry about AOC. She is a radical leftist in my opinion, not a really good thing. My support would go not to someone on the left or the right but someone who is off the scale, someone who has integrated those opposites owing to having experienced enlightenment, you know, that thing that doesn't exist.

But anyway, at this moment in time I would prefer a bomb thrower to a establishment Democrat, as that wing of the party is far to dysfunctional to win elections. AOC is like owning a gun. A gun can fire back when assaulted instead of rolling over and playing dead by playing according to rules that lead to extinction. But Pelosi will probably win. Miserable people unconsciously want their misery to end and a sure way is mass extinction. If there is a happy person somewhere, they have to go down with the rest of us psychopaths.

 

[MrSquished]

I have to stay registered a Democrat through our gubernatorial primary so I can vote in it, but right after that, I'm switching to an independent.

Chuck Schumer is minority leader, Pelosi and centrist Dems shoot down AOC's oversight committee leadership. What a shit show of outdated out of touch with what is really going on shitbags.

The few limousine neoliberals on here that want to push right are wrong, and so are the archaic Dems who still control too much of the party, so fuck them all. This party is so out of touch at this point.