Democratic National Convention

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: quest55720
So biden wants to go to war with Russia now? Hold Russia repsonsible I wonder how many troups to make that happen?

no, you misunderstood. By "holding responsible" he means "give them a stern talking to so they understand"

Yes, because Bush and McCain plan to do anything more than make blustering fools of themselves.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: winnar111
Is it typical for the candidate to crash the convention a day early, or is Obama concerned about it being a yawnfest?

It's happened before. Clinton did it in 1992.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

Two words medicare and medicaid. Both of the government health programs are a complete disaster. No chance in hell I would ever turn in my insurance for either of those 2 programs.

Except they aren't a complete disaster. The weakness is in that they mostly apply to old people, in other words that they aren't universal, and therefore don't have a pool of 300 million Americans.

I'd like to hear your plan to get 80 year olds insured... If it involves a free market of some kind you need your head checked because being old is one hell of a preexisting condition.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
The reason they devour huge chunks of the budget is because they cover the most at risk people who also happen to not be paying taxes.


What do you mean when you say care gets limited? AFAIK if an Australian needs a million dollar (or whatever they cost there) heart surgery, he gets it. If an American needs it, he gets it and either his insurance pays or he's in debt until he dies and the hospital ends up eating the cost.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
The only countries with true UHC are those that have skylines filled will oil wells. All the other ones have a combination of service delays, restrictions, or are transfering some portion to private corporation service.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The reason they devour huge chunks of the budget is because they cover the most at risk people who also happen to not be paying taxes.


What do you mean when you say care gets limited? AFAIK if an Australian needs a million dollar (or whatever they cost there) heart surgery, he gets it. If an American needs it, he gets it and either his insurance pays or he's in debt until he dies and the hospital ends up eating the cost.

If you truly believe that, you're really not qualified to speak on these matters. Sure, plenty of people are given care the hospital reasonably believes they will never pay for (I used to work in a hospital, and uninsured people were coded in the records system as "self-pay", which the entire staff joked meant "no-pay"), but plenty of people are flat-out denied care, unless the care was required to absolutely save thier life right now. Patient-dumping is very common.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The reason they devour huge chunks of the budget is because they cover the most at risk people who also happen to not be paying taxes.


What do you mean when you say care gets limited? AFAIK if an Australian needs a million dollar (or whatever they cost there) heart surgery, he gets it. If an American needs it, he gets it and either his insurance pays or he's in debt until he dies and the hospital ends up eating the cost.

If you truly believe that, you're really not qualified to speak on these matters. Sure, plenty of people are given care the hospital reasonably believes they will never pay for (I used to work in a hospital, and uninsured people were coded in the records system as "self-pay", which the entire staff joked meant "no-pay"), but plenty of people are flat-out denied care, unless the care was required to absolutely save thier life right now. Patient-dumping is very common.

A life or death situation is what I was thinking about. But in any case, what you are saying is health care is nonexistent in the USA for some people without insurance? So what happens in Australia, Europe, Japan, and Israel? Are you talking about piddly little allergy doctor visits being limited or things that actually matter like surgeries?

Also, don't insurance companies here have discretion in what they cover? And insurance plans through employers, where you have no choice, can have limits to how much cost they cover per year etc...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
How many people believe Obama is really going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans?

I am sure he will cut the income tax. He will just either increase the medicare tax or introduce a new UHC tax. OR he will just be creative and just increase fees on things that way he can claim he cut taxes. Lets not forget the 7-10 dollar a gallon gas we will have under no drill/Windfall Profits tax Obama/Pelosi.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
How many people believe Obama is really going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans?

I am sure he will cut the income tax. He will just either increase the medicare tax or introduce a new UHC tax. OR he will just be creative and just increase fees on things that way he can claim he cut taxes. Lets not forget the 7-10 dollar a gallon gas we will have under no drill/Windfall Profits tax Obama/Pelosi.

I hate Republicans but I feel like he's full of shit.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,047
18
81
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

They already leech off the system in the ER departments of hundreds of hospitals.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
How many people believe Obama is really going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans?

I am sure he will cut the income tax. He will just either increase the medicare tax or introduce a new UHC tax. OR he will just be creative and just increase fees on things that way he can claim he cut taxes. Lets not forget the 7-10 dollar a gallon gas we will have under no drill/Windfall Profits tax Obama/Pelosi.

I hate Republicans but I feel like he's full of shit.


I don't like them either. I don't like the bible thumpers. I don't have any other choice since the democrats keep nominating people on the extreme left. Give me a moderate democrat and they would have my vote. Obama is so far left he can't see the center. I have 2 choices this election both suck. 10 dollar a gallon gas under Obama/Pelosi or the bible thumpers having power.
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

They already leech off the system in the ER departments of hundreds of hospitals.

I agree they are huring many hospitals right now. I think the INS should be waiting for them after they get out of the ER. But pass a democratic UHC and illegals get million dollar transplants and cancer treatment for nothing.

 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,047
18
81
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

They already leech off the system in the ER departments of hundreds of hospitals.

I agree they are huring many hospitals right now. I think the INS should be waiting for them after they get out of the ER. But pass a democratic UHC and illegals get million dollar transplants and cancer treatment for nothing.

How do you suppose these illegal/undocumented immigrants are going to access the UHC system with more success than their current use of the ER?
 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

They already leech off the system in the ER departments of hundreds of hospitals.

I agree they are huring many hospitals right now. I think the INS should be waiting for them after they get out of the ER. But pass a democratic UHC and illegals get million dollar transplants and cancer treatment for nothing.


You don't know democrats then. They want to give illegals things like drivers licenses. The can't ignore the latino popluation so they will toss the rest of us over board for a few votes.
 

Excelsior

Lifer
May 30, 2002
19,047
18
81
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: quest55720
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: quest55720
One thing that scares the hell out of me was all the talk about UHC. There is no way to do UHC with out either bankrupting the country or lowering the standard of care for those with insurance. This is not the time for UHC many things need to be taken care of before we can go down that road. Starting with securing the boarder and getting people to choose healthier lifestyles.

Why do you think America is unable to create a UHC system when EVERY other developed nation can cover 100% of its citizens?

But are they able to balance the budget doing so? Isn't most of Europe running deficits, just like the U.S.? Is there a decent-sized nation offering a UHC system which isn't mortgaging the future to do so? I've never heard of one, but I haven't looked at EVERY nation's budget numbers, so I could easily be wrong.

It costs them much less per capita than the insurance system we have now costs us per capita. Tax employers the same amount they pay for insurance, spend a part of that on single payer healthcare, and we come out better than before.

It costs less because care gets limited. I'm not sure the same system would fly here. Aren't most Americans living less healthly lifestyles than most Europeans? Higher obesity and such? Costs would definitely be higher here. Medicare and Medicaid already devour huge chunks of the budget, and they cover less than half the nation, I believe (could be wrong on that figure, though).

Care is limited in some ways, but the end result appears to be a healthier population at a small fraction of the cost. Yes, yes. Americans have unhealthy lifestyles but I have never seen a study that states our unhealthy life explains why we have a slightly lower life expectancy than countries with UHC while paying more then double the amount per capita on health care. It's a no-brainer.

Come you really think that a nation of 300 pound people is not pushing up the cost of health care per capita? Add to that no other nation with UHC has 10s of millions of illegals who would just leech off the system. UHC in the us would be UHC for all of south america paid for by US tax payers. Until the boarders are secure and people choose better life styles UHC has not chance. That and the government has yet to prove they can do any program right. Let them fix medicare and medicaid and prove to me they can do it with out bankrupting the country.

They already leech off the system in the ER departments of hundreds of hospitals.

I agree they are huring many hospitals right now. I think the INS should be waiting for them after they get out of the ER. But pass a democratic UHC and illegals get million dollar transplants and cancer treatment for nothing.


You don't know democrats then. They want to give illegals things like drivers licenses. The can't ignore the latino popluation so they will toss the rest of us over board for a few votes.

:confused: