Dem Strategist: Women don't need guns, just tell men not to rape

[jackstar7]

Respect is earned not learned.

How did your mom earn yours?

 

[nehalem256]

If that was the extent of her spiel, then she'd be completely right. Crime victims aren't responsible for the crime, the criminal is. If you assign responsibility to the victim, you are an idiot.

When it comes to rape, pretty much every radical feminist I have ever read goes much further than that, though. If you point out, under any circumstance, even with good evidence, that a different choice of behavior has a significant chance of shielding an individual from being victimized then they will consider you to be "victim-blaming" (even though that's a complete logical non sequitur, and these same people will freely admit e.g. to locked doors hindering burglaries and home invasions). Even when the evidence is so iron-tight they can't argue against it, they'll pull out something equally absurd like claiming that successfully protecting an individual just shifts the rape onto other victims without reducing rape.

It's a terrible waste; they mean well, but they put lots of energy towards opposing concrete measures of reducing rape which would actually work.

I think we mean the same thing. By take responsibility I mean "take responsibility for your safety by exercising common sense".

If you forget to lock your car door one and it gets stolen it would be silly to blame you for not being responsible. But at the same time if you decide you never need to lock your car door because people should learn not to steal it you are an idiot.

That sounds reasonable at first, but it's half bullshit. I'm not aware of any evidence that "slutty clothing" (by whose standards?) has something to do with the probability of being raped, unless we're talking about some 3rd world garbage country where a significant proportion of people would consider a clothing choice to be morally acceptable grounds to rape. Women's sexual attractiveness to a man is largely independent of the clothing the woman is wearing. And of course most rapes are committed by someone known to the victim. If you want to dispense advice that actually makes a difference, it would be more like "don't associate with people who don't honor your boundaries and the boundaries of others, or people who are criminal losers, whether you know them well or not".

My understanding was a lot of rapes involved alcohol and/or drugs. Its really the alcohol and hanging around with men you don't really know that is a bad idea.

Unfortunately feminists have expanded rape to be so inclusive that 3/4 "rape" victims don't even think they were raped that it gets really hard to know what things can be done to help prevent it.

 

[waggy]

And this is why women should be trained in self defense and allowed to be armed, because there is no reasoning with these small, pathetic, vicious, ignorant, spiteful, brainwashed religious dolt Taliban type males.

/this.
you pretty much describe men that are willing to rape.

if it came down to my daughter shooting a fucker about to rape her or getting raped i know what one i would want.

 

[Paratus]

Respect is earned not learned.

So your saying that respect of women is earned and without it men will rape women?

So when did they earn your respect? Or did they? :hmm:

 

[waggy]

So your saying that respect of women is earned and without it men will rape women?

So when did they earn your respect? Or did they? :hmm:

since when does respect mean no rape?

he is right in respect is earned. NOBODY deserves respect based on race, sex or religion. a person has to earn that respect.

That has nothing with criminal acts to even suggest is idiotic.

 

[nehalem256]

So your saying that respect of women is earned and without it men will rape women?

So when did they earn your respect? Or did they? :hmm:

since when does respect mean no rape?

he is right in respect is earned. NOBODY deserves respect based on race, sex or religion. a person has to earn that respect.

That has nothing with criminal acts to even suggest is idiotic.

Waggy hit the head there.

Do you respect everyone? (If so respect would seem to be a rather meaningless concept).

Assuming you don't respect someone would you swipe their wallet or steal their car?

I think the answer is no. Morality is separate from respecting someone.

What liberals mean to say instead of "respect women" is worship women.

 

[Paratus]

since when does respect mean no rape?

he is right in respect is earned. NOBODY deserves respect based on race, sex or religion. a person has to earn that respect.

That has nothing with criminal acts to even suggest is idiotic.

I simply meant that its possible to learn or be brought up in an environment where we learn that it is wrong to rape, kill, steal, or harm others. Or to put it it another way to "respect" someone else's right not to be injured or harmed by me.

That was what I meant. I think you'd probably agree that while you may not respect every women you meet you can respect their right not to be raped.

 

[Paratus]

Waggy hit the head there.

Do you respect everyone? (If so respect would seem to be a rather meaningless concept).

Assuming you don't respect someone would you swipe their wallet or steal their car?

I think the answer is no. Morality is separate from respecting someone.

What liberals mean to say instead of "respect women" is worship women.

See my response to Waggy

 

[nehalem256]

I simply meant that its possible to learn or be brought up in an environment where we learn that it is wrong to rape, kill, steal, or harm others. Or to put it it another way to "respect" someone else's right not to be injured or harmed by me.

That was what I meant. I think you'd probably agree that while you may not respect every women you meet you can respect their right not to be raped.

Are you suggesting that is not already taught?

EDIT: And no non-feminist uses the word respect in the way you did. And I doubt even they are. I think they mean respect in the same way Waggy and I did. They just somehow think that will magically eliminate rape.

 

[Paratus]

Are you suggesting that is not already taught?

EDIT: And no non-feminist uses the word respect in the way you did. And I doubt even they are. I think they mean respect in the same way Waggy and I did. They just somehow think that will magically eliminate rape.

Well you can assume that's what they mean but you'd be wrong.


Glad to see you feel everyone is brought up in good environment while growing up but I thought you were the one always bitching about how single mothers were responsible for all of the ills of society.

Glad you've come around. :thumbsup:

 

[nehalem256]

Well you can assume that's what they mean but you'd be wrong.


Glad to see you feel everyone is brought up in good environment while growing up but I thought you were the one always bitching about how single mothers were responsible for all of the ills of society.

Glad you've come around. :thumbsup:

What coming around. How many people do you think don't know that stealing, murder, and rape are wrong?

Although I find it interesting that you are saying that it is single mothers who are not capable of teaching their children that. Seems like in a way it is feminists who are responsible for rape then huh

 

[Paratus]

What coming around. How many people do you think don't know that stealing, murder, and rape are wrong?

Although I find it interesting that you are saying that it is single mothers who are not capable of teaching their children that. Seems like in a way it is feminists who are responsible for rape then huh

I see your reading comprehension is slipping again. But that's ok I'll help you out.

No you see I was implying that you, Nehalem, believe that single mothers can't raise their children right due to your comments in past threads. Your position in this thread seems to say that you no longer believe this and now agree with how I, Paratus, feel on the subject. So I was commending you for that.

Do you think every rapist is jumping out of a dark street and grabbing women? :hmm:

 

[nehalem256]

Do you think every rapist is jumping out of a dark street and grabbing women? :hmm:

I think most rapists exist in the imagination of feminists.

Koss’s study had serious flaws. Her survey instrument was highly ambiguous, as University of California at Berkeley social-welfare professor Neil Gilbert has pointed out. But the most powerful refutation of Koss’s research came from her own subjects: 73 percent of the women whom she characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped. Further—though it is inconceivable that a raped woman would voluntarily have sex again with the fiend who attacked her—42 percent of Koss’s supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

 

[jackstar7]

I think most rapists exist in the imagination of feminists.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

Here's a question for you, nehalem: can a wife be raped by her husband?

 

[Attic]

Rape is a word that is said or written and it's impossible to not get charged up.

The argument from this lady was poor. Women need to be expected to take reasonable precaution and skepticism of surroundings about being assaulted. The responsibility of course is on the assaulter, but this doesn't mean the assaulter can be "trained" and women then no longer need to be expected to take reasonable precaution and skepticism of surroundings about being assaulted.

Rape deserves some precise concerns b/c it can happen anywhere, though likely the assaults that are NOT in the dark alley is what the strategist is referring to when making the assessment that a gun won't help. Though I think she still picked a poor platform and argument.

Liberals are idiots and so are conservatives, until each side can admit that and seek less idiotic common ground our polarization will continue to harm the poor/underprivileged and the undermining effect will creep up the socio-economic classes until only the rich and privileged are served by a corrupt and biased government bred from what we see now.

Perhaps a hopeless romantic, and clearly idiotic myself, but I think part of the solution does exist even on a msg board that we believe in here.

 

[waggy]

Here's a question for you, nehalem: can a wife be raped by her husband?

interesting question. My answer is of course. I think i remember reading that by law the answer is not as clear though.

 

[thraashman]

interesting question. My answer is of course. I think i remember reading that by law the answer is not as clear though.

I think the question was asked because I seem to recall a thread in which I believe it was nehalem who took the position that a husband can't rape his wife.

 

[nehalem256]

Here's a question for you, nehalem: can a wife be raped by her husband?

I think under some circumstances it would be possible.

But for the most part government should stay out of married couples bedrooms

But here is a question for you: can a wife steal her husbands car?

 

[thraashman]

I think under some circumstances it would be possible.

But for the most part government should stay out of married couples bedrooms

But here is a question for you: can a wife steal her husbands car?

Um, if I am suffering from depression and do minor self mutilation, I can't be charged with assault. If I take a knife to my wife's arm I can be. Under MANY circumstances is it possible for a husband to rape his wife. Sex without consent is rape, it doesn't matter who the parties involved are or what their relationship is.

 

[jackstar7]

I think under some circumstances it would be possible.

But for the most part government should stay out of married couples bedrooms

That was what I wanted to confirm.

 

[Zodiark1593]

I find that both parties tend to be delusional on certain issues and expect that everyone in the country would act according to their ideal behavioral standards, if only they're told to do so.

Democrats - Crime, welfare and guns.
Republicans - Complete deregulation, sex and marriage.
Both - Drugs.

Yeah, even if we are forced to choose between the lesser of the two evil parties, we still choose evil.

 

[nehalem256]

Um, if I am suffering from depression and do minor self mutilation, I can't be charged with assault. If I take a knife to my wife's arm I can be. Under MANY circumstances is it possible for a husband to rape his wife. Sex without consent is rape, it doesn't matter who the parties involved are or what their relationship is.

Where have I disagreed with this. Marriage is consent to sex.

Why do you want the government involved in married couples bedrooms?

 

[Phanuel]

Where have I disagreed with this. Marriage is consent to sex.

Why do you want the government involved in married couples bedrooms?

This is some twisted as f logic here.

 

[TheVrolok]

I think most rapists exist in the imagination of feminists.

Wow, just wow. I know I shouldn't expect anything else from you, but still.

 

[thraashman]

Where have I disagreed with this. Marriage is consent to sex.

Why do you want the government involved in married couples bedrooms?

No, marriage is a state, sex is an act. Marriage is a consent to a state, the state of being married. Upon getting married you do not give blanket consent to sex until death. The fact that you seem to think such is one of the most fucked up things I've ever heard.