Question Dell Upgrade Question

[2336]

Folks, I'd like to apologize ahead of time if this comes across stupid or the wrong way. I have been away from the computer forums since 2004, before that I was quite a frequent member here. Some of the old hands may remember me, especially Drainbammage. I recently bought a Dell desktop as a work station and home media setup. It's a Dell Inspiron 3650 with an Intel i3-6100 3.70 Ghz. I have maxxed out the RAM at 16GB. I think I've ID'd the CPU as a Skylake core LGA-1151. Is there any benefit to trying to upgrade to an i5-6400, or i7-6700, if they are LGA-1151 and Skylake core? CPU architecture and configuration has become a bit confusing since I last messed with anything in 2004. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Oh, BTW, I was able to buy this tower for $99 so if it's not worth the hassle of upgrading, no big deal. It's running pretty good for what I need but do still like to tinker a bit. I remember running a Celeron 566 at almost 850Mhz, without liquid cooling. Good Lord that was a long time ago! LMAO! Also, is there a website that might explain a bit more clearly the current CPU architectures and pin arrays for both Intel and AMD, even though I've been more of an AMD geek. Thinking about building a microATX rig. Thanks again folks.

 

[UsandThem]

Is there any benefit to trying to upgrade to an i5-6400, or i7-6700, if they are LGA-1151 and Skylake core? It's running pretty good for what I need but do still like to tinker a bit. Thinking about building a microATX rig

Depends on what price you can buy the i7-6700 for. I wouldn't personally spend more than say $175 for the CPU since you can get 6 or 8 core CPUs now. However, if you don't need the speed, I would just leave it as-is. Get your "tinkering" fill when you build your new PC.

CPU architecture and configuration has become a bit confusing since I last messed with anything in 2004. Also, is there a website that might explain a bit more clearly the current CPU architectures and pin arrays for both Intel and AMD, even though I've been more of an AMD geek.

Of course there are websites that explains detailed stuff like different pin arrays and CPU tech. You might have heard of them before, if not they are Anandtech and Anandtech Forums

Seriously though, if you've been "out of the loop" in PC tech since 2004, you have a lot learn, so why not read through some articles on Intel and AMD tech, browse the forums a little, and ask questions if you need help. A lot has changed in 15 years, including the new Nvidia flagship video cards for "only" $2500 (or their little brothers for a bargain price of $1200).

 

[2336]

UsandThem, thanks for your input. I stumbled upon another website while looking at similar threads, and according to cpu world the pin grid array is different between i3s and the i5/i7 line-up. So much for that idea. Now time to get re-educated. Thanks.

 

[UsandThem]

UsandThem, thanks for your input. I stumbled upon another website while looking at similar threads, and according to cpu world the pin grid array is different between i3s and the i5/i7 line-up. So much for that idea. Now time to get re-educated. Thanks.

No problem, it's just that you've missed so much if you haven't followed tech in a while. It's the socket that you pay attention to for Intel. They have used LGA 1151 for Sky Lake (6th Gen) and Kaby Lake (7th Gen) CPUs. It doesn't matter if they are an i3, i5, or i7 CPU. They all work in the same slot. When Intel released its 8th Gen CPUs, they kept the socket the same physical size, but changed the socket electrically, so their 8th Gen and 9th Gen CPUs only work in LGA 1151 "300" series motherboards (e.g. Z370, H370, Z390).

The last great CPU architecture from Intel that changed everything, and made AMD totally irreverent for a long time was Sandy Bridge in 2011 (Gen 2 of the "Core" processor series that we are still basically on up to today). Intel just recently launched their 9th generation CPUs, and outside of a few tweaks, more cores, and few other smaller optimizations, they really are just Sky Lake ++ CPUs (6th generation). They've also been stuck at 14nm for a while now, and have missed their target of moving to 10nm several times.

After doing nothing even worth mentioning with CPUs for a long time, AMD launched Ryzen in 2017, and finally had a really competitive product again. They are set to release the new Zen2 CPUs next year (along with a die shrink), so there is a lot of hype on that being a home run product.

There's just so much that has happened since you left. My advice would be to start with newer articles like reading the review for the new Intel i9-9900k CPU, and read the review for the AMD Ryzen 2700X. In those articles, they also take about the technology on the motherboards, and you should be able quickly see how things are really different now, Things like memory controllers now are on the CPU and NOT the motherboard, storage drives that are crazy fast and are the size of a stick of gum (NVMe), and even 8k resolution computer monitors for $3500.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_CPU_microarchitectures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_microprocessors

 

[2336]

UsandThem, thanks for all of your excellent info. I think I found a suitable rplacement. It's only $7 more than the commercial version of my current CPU and is .2Ghz faster and has an extra Mb of L3 cache. Something I've noticed recentlty, CPUs are showing TDP, thermal design power. Is that what they draw while running? If so then I tried to stay close to the TDP of my i3-6100's 51W. This is what I found Something else I noticed and am going to try and work around - I see that these CPUs support DDR4 as well as DDR3L. I'm running DDR3L right now but am considering trying DDR4, is there a possibility of damaging something or will the comp just not boot? Looks like I'm getting back into an expensive and addictive hobby - Good Lord I love it!

 

[Shmee]

Does the dell have an SSD? If not get one for it. As for the CPU, a 7700 or 7700k would be a good upgrade for it. You may need to update the bios first to support 7th gen CPUs.

 

[Shmee]

Oh, I would not bother getting another i3. Too much of a side grade with no real improvement you would notice.

 

[2336]

Thank you Shmee! Does it matter whether it is a Skylake or not, just as long as it's an LGA 1151? And how does the TDP or wattage rating affect things, is that something I should be super concerned with? I was trying to stay with CPUs that are compatible with the 530 chipset that is on my motherboard, and close to the TDP rating of 51W of my current CPU.

 

[UsandThem]

Thank you Shmee! Does it matter whether it is a Skylake or not, just as long as it's an LGA 1151? And how does the TDP or wattage rating affect things, is that something I should be super concerned with? I was trying to stay with CPUs that are compatible with the 530 chipset that is on my motherboard, and close to the TDP rating of 51W of my current CPU.

All I found was some additional info under the support tab of your system here:

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/inspiron-3650-desktop/manuals

It states:

Computer model Inspiron 3650 Processor • Intel Celeron Processor • Intel Pentium Processor • 6th Generation Intel Core i3 Processor • 6th Generation Intel Core i5 Processor • 6th Generation Intel Core i7 Processor Chipset Intel H110

The socket is compatible with 7th Gen CPUs, but it doesn't mean Dell released an updated BIOS to support the newer CPUs. That would be something you'd have to find a BIOS update that added support (or contact Dell support). There are 13 different BIOS updates there, so you would have to read the notes on each one.

TDP of mid-range CPUs isn't that much of a difference. And I doubt the extra heat would be too much unless you purchased a "k" unlocked CPU, and those run hotter even when not overclocking. I doubt that cooler in there could handle anything above a 65w TDP unit.

 

[Shmee]

After doing a quick bit of research, it seems dell never updated the BIOS to support 7th gen CPUs unfortunately, which is kinda dumb with the latest update being so recent this year. So I would go with the 6700, it is supported and would give the biggest boost. The TDP should not matter, as long as the CPU is cooled properly. The 530 is the graphics chipset, and that is on the CPU not the motherboard, you can safely upgrade that.

You cannot use DDR4 in the dell motherboard, 16GB should be fine anyway.

If you do not already have an SSD, that would be the biggest upgrade.

 

[2336]

UsandThem, and Shmee, thank you folks! That's why Anandtech is such a great place to hang out! Also, you folks let me know the graphics chipset is now on the CPU, I would've never have known that. That would've hosed me. Thanks folks! Shmee, I'll be looking into a SSD. That seems to be the hot ticket, and will definitely go with the 6700! Thanks bro!

 

[Markfw]

UsandThem, and Shmee, thank you folks! That's why Anandtech is such a great place to hang out! Also, you folks let me know the graphics chipset is now on the CPU, I would've never have known that. That would've hosed me. Thanks folks! Shmee, I'll be looking into a SSD. That seems to be the hot ticket, and will definitely go with the 6700! Thanks bro!

BTW, you may have to update the BIOS on your motherboard before you change chips.

Also, the graphics chipset is SOMETIMES on the CPU, but the fast graphics are on discrete cards.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Intel desktop and laptop chips always have integrated graphics (except for the i3-8121U which is not a factor here). Whether the system builder (Dell, in this case) chose to add an dGPU for faster graphics is up to the specific model involved.

 

[LightningZ71]

I'd like to ask what you are using this computer for? The absolute difference between the i3 you have now, and the i7-6700 in a stock configuration is a bit under 10% more clock frequency at maximum boost on a single core. (4.0ghz vs. 3.7). It also has 8mb of l3 cache as opposed to 3mb on the I3. Finally, it supports multi threading, which means it effectively has 8 cores (logically, it can run two threads or programs on each core at the same time). All that sounds good, but unless you're doing something that is very sensitive to how fast your main memory is, you likely won't notice the difference from the cache, and if you aren't running one of the few use cases that really need the extra logical cores of the i7, you won't really notice that either. The extra 10% clock speed might give you a few frames per second in games, but, if you're still using the integrated graphics and don't have a dedicated video card, that's hardly what's holding you back.

The single biggest upgrade you can do for system performance is changing the normal spinning hard drive out for an SSD. Bar none, nothing makes a system feel faster than doing that. If you're gaming, or if you're in video or photo editing in specific use cases, the add in video card can make a big difference in those specific tasks. While the integrated graphics are nice, and can do a lot of things, they aren't fast by any means.

Unless you really really have a use case that justifies it, I wouldn't touch the CPU in that system. It's the one upgrade that you will do to that system that you absolutely won't be able to carry forward into a new system and will have the least impact on system performance in your specific situation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The single biggest upgrade you can do for system performance is changing the normal spinning hard drive out for an SSD. Bar none

Unless you really really have a use case that justifies it, I wouldn't touch the CPU in that system. It's the one upgrade that you will do to that system that you absolutely won't be able to carry forward into a new system and will have the least impact on system performance in your specific situation.

I agree with both of these sentiments. Most def., get an SSD.

But upgrade the CPU? I would try it with the SSD installed, and then see how you feel about needing to upgrade the CPU. It may provide the "boost" that you need, without having to go to the hassle and expense of upgrading the CPU. To say nothing of dealing with Dell BIOS issues regarding CPUs that didn't ship on the board. And thirdly, even second-hand, Intel Skylake CPUs are still somehow rather expensive. So expensive, that you might be better off getting a brand-new AMD AM4 rig (Ryzen 5 2600(X)), for the same or very similar money. (There's a ShellShocker at Newegg right now, for like $270, for a 2600 and an ATX mobo.)

 

[DONINAUSTIN]

UsandThem, thanks for all of your excellent info. I think I found a suitable rplacement. It's only $7 more than the commercial version of my current CPU and is .2Ghz faster and has an extra Mb of L3 cache. Something I've noticed recentlty, CPUs are showing TDP, thermal design power. Is that what they draw while running? If so then I tried to stay close to the TDP of my i3-6100's 51W. This is what I found Something else I noticed and am going to try and work around - I see that these CPUs support DDR4 as well as DDR3L. I'm running DDR3L right now but am considering trying DDR4, is there a possibility of damaging something or will the comp just not boot? Looks like I'm getting back into an expensive and addictive hobby - Good Lord I love it!

After doing a quick bit of research, it seems dell never updated the BIOS to support 7th gen CPUs unfortunately, which is kinda dumb with the latest update being so recent this year. So I would go with the 6700, it is supported and would give the biggest boost. The TDP should not matter, as long as the CPU is cooled properly. The 530 is the graphics chipset, and that is on the CPU not the motherboard, you can safely upgrade that.

You cannot use DDR4 in the dell motherboard, 16GB should be fine anyway.

If you do not already have an SSD, that would be the biggest upgrade.

What he said. It looks like this PC did not come with an SSD. An SSD will make a DRAMATIC difference. Far more than a chip upgrade, and the memory upgrade is out of the question unless you replace the MB. Find a way to back up media or whatever is on your 1 TB drive but not programs -- at least not those you use often. If you have to borrow a USB drive to do it. Or you can buy a 1 TB mechanical USB drive for backup purposes cheap these days. Once you have non-program files cleaned off the 1 TB drive defragment it to compact the programs to the front of the drive and clone it to maybe a 256 gig or 512 gig SSD. Format the mechanical 1 TB drive and copy media files back and reinstall. This is not at all hard to do and anybody who says now you will have to reinstall Windows simply does not understand how easy this actually is.

Now if the 1 TB drive doesn't have that much on it you can simply clone it to SSD equal or larger. Or even a 1 TB SSD is not that expensive these days. https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch-Internal-MZ-76E1T0B-AM/dp/B078DPCY3T?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

 

[2336]

Folks, I'm using the computer for a home media center and basic web-browsing and very light office work. Nothing strenuous like photo editing , not even any intense gaming. Looks like I'll see about the SSD swap as that appears to be the best speed increase for the price. The latest BIOS available is dated 13 Aug 2018 but when I checked, my BIOS has the same version number, even though I purchased the tower well before that date. I might try the CPU upgrade just for the heck of it, for tinkering's sake maybe. Also, thanks again for everyone's advice and input!

Hmmmm, I think the CPU upgrade is gonna have to wait. Not too keen on spending over $300 for a CPU, especially when it doesn't even come with the CPU cooler. That plan's going on the most back of my back burners until those prices drop! Wow!

 

[DontMessWithJohan]

$99 for that setup seems like a steal. Dell configurations tend to have a bit weaker processing units relative to price, but since your setup doesn't even have a standalone GPU (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't much point to upgrading the CPU.

 

[2336]

$99 for that setup seems like a steal. Dell configurations tend to have a bit weaker processing units relative to price, but since your setup doesn't even have a standalone GPU (correct me if I'm wrong) there isn't much point to upgrading the CPU.

Yes, I lucked out and got the tower BNIB for that price. You are correct, no standalone GPU. Right now using the onboard Intel graphics. Have not looked into getting a separate graphics card. Since I play so few games, and the ones I do play are not graphics intense, not sure if it's worth the effort to get a separate card, and your point on the CPU upgrade is well taken!

 

[2336]

Folks, finally got around to upgrading to an SSD and well worth it. It was only a 480GB unit but that will be large enough to handle anything else I might install. The original 1TB HDD got wiped and will be used for storage. Depending on finances might still consider a CPU upgrade - anyone know where I can get an i7-6700 LGA 1151, Skylake core for $50? Seriously though, thanks for everyone's help and input!

 

[Arkaign]

Nice job! As for the i7-6700, $50 would be definitely a bargain and the 'right' price IMHO for something that has seen both Coffee Lake and Ryzen run away from it in cores and performance.

However, it suffers from 'top o the socket' tax. As time goes on, more demand on the best available CPUs for a given socket. Functionally, 6700/7700 are basically the best available for the 100/200 series boards, and thus command a price that's a bit out of line with value.

You have a 2 Core, 4 Thread 6th Gen Intel w/3MB Cache.

An option might be if you're able to get an i5 6600 for $75 or less (and then sell the 6100 for $20ish). That would exactly double your cores and CPU cache, and should be a good amount more performance.

 

[sdifox]

Oops wrong thread