Dell PSUs "Continuous Wattage"

[Virgorising]

Hi.

While I always choose the chip first when I shop for new/used Optiplexes on ebay, I also liked that the one I am on right now shipped with the EPA PSU (more money).

I have seen much dissing over time re Dell PSUs. It was why, in my now backup Opti, I upgraded that one. I came to realize, over time, that was not necessary, esp with integrated graphics; a fine company makes Dell's PSUs, often Fortron, tho I have only had experience with the Optiplex business line....and, Dell PSUs are, like Antec, rated at continuous wattage, not maximum as are so many aftermarket units.

How come there isn't a consistent standard for rating PSUs??? Shouldn't there be one?

I see there is a sticky thread for how PSUs are rated, but shouldn't the industry adopt a consistent standard?

Thanks!

 

[_Rick_]

If 80+ were properly enforced, there'd be something closer to a standard.
If you trust the labeling though - which for most known brands you can - you an efficiency rating that is as a function of the rated power. This stops over-labeling, as it makes achieving the certification limits pretty much impossible. In fact, it promotes underlabeling, and I'm not entirely sure all 400W and 500W PSU from the same make are internally very different, except for the setting of the OPP circuit. Simply because at some point the validation costs so much, that the extra cents that might be saved per unit by going with slightly smaller caps would be lost. Or you get a better deal on the bigger caps, by buying twice as many...

But I digress. There is the ATX standard, the national and international safety checks, and on a normal PSU you find a about a dozen different labels of who certifies their suitability. The 80+ cert is the most relevant, as it directly relates not only to efficiency, but efficiency as a function of the rated power.

I don't think yet another standardization will find many proponents, especially as the only people that actually care are the big computer "OEMs" that buy PSUs by the boatload, and depend on them for their business model to work. The smaller brands don't really care about such things, and will slap any rating on a device they desire, limited more by whether they can get it to pass some 80+ target they set themselves.

 

[Virgorising]

If 80+ were properly enforced, there'd be something closer to a standard.
If you trust the labeling though - which for most known brands you can - you an efficiency rating that is as a function of the rated power. This stops over-labeling, as it makes achieving the certification limits pretty much impossible. In fact, it promotes underlabeling, and I'm not entirely sure all 400W and 500W PSU from the same make are internally very different, except for the setting of the OPP circuit. Simply because at some point the validation costs so much, that the extra cents that might be saved per unit by going with slightly smaller caps would be lost. Or you get a better deal on the bigger caps, by buying twice as many...

But I digress. There is the ATX standard, the national and international safety checks, and on a normal PSU you find a about a dozen different labels of who certifies their suitability. The 80+ cert is the most relevant, as it directly relates not only to efficiency, but efficiency as a function of the rated power.

I don't think yet another standardization will find many proponents, especially as the only people that actually care are the big computer "OEMs" that buy PSUs by the boatload, and depend on them for their business model to work. The smaller brands don't really care about such things, and will slap any rating on a device they desire, limited more by whether they can get it to pass some 80+ target they set themselves.

That, in any part.... was digressing"? 😎🙄

It was through and brilliant in every element offered. Proper free association is the opposite of digressing.

I am especially heartened by that, and why we often end up with under-labeling!

I am now enlightened!😀

Thanks so much!

 

[thedosbox]

How come there isn't a consistent standard for rating PSUs??? Shouldn't there be one?

I see there is a sticky thread for how PSUs are rated, but shouldn't the industry adopt a consistent standard?

There's no incentive for them to do so. Most people buying branded PSU's do so on price, and/or with an inflated sense of how much capacity they need.

 

[Virgorising]

There's no incentive for them to do so. Most people buying branded PSU's do so on price, and/or with an inflated sense of how much capacity they need.

Excellent summation. Not only am I certain all of this is accurate (unfortunately), as I posted, re the inflated sense of how much capacity one needs....I was guilty of that very thing, positive I needed to upgrade PSU in my now backup Optiplex.

Now that I know far more, I get what I did was overkill. Esp in that system.

But very sad to know that people don't immediately focus on the specifics of the labeling re each unit when they make these decisions.....and so, I think you are right: no incentive!

Color me MORE enlightened, but also sad.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There's so much variability in the PSU industry. But, let the free-market decide. The creation of 80plus, I think, was a good step forward, if only for various PSUs' marketability.

But I don't think that we need gov't regulations on PSUs, well, aside from the basics, FCC and UL certs, so that PSUs don't interfere with our TV signals, or burn our houses down. Things like efficiency, or actual continuous power output, let the market decide.

I have a few go-to brands for when PSUs need a certain continuous spec. Antec, Enermax, and SeaSonic come to mind. (Not a Corsair fan, but many people will vouch for their quality as well.)

 

[_Rick_]

Oh, and lest I forget, there's also the Erp6 standard, which has recently become relevant, and will be enforced (or is it already being enforced?) on PSU's sold in the EU.
But that one only touches on off-idle consumption, and usually just means that 5VSB can be switched off by the BIOS, leaving only the power button logic active, when the computer is "off". It's useful for some of the unpluggers and power-strip switchers.

 

[Virgorising]

All of the above, truly does comprise a graduate level tutorial! A-AMAZZZZZING.

 

[infoiltrator]

To date enforcement of standards is rare, the last major event I recall involved a Scandinavian Country and a power supply that often caught fire.
Chinese factories produce dated power supplies removing as many components as the buyer thinks he can get away with. Using the lowest rated or quality parts.
Then they put it in a nice box labeled in lies.
There are suppliers (like deer) that all power supplies are suspect, ones like HEC who can build decent power supplies but have and do sell junk. Or Delta Who mostly does well. FSP does both.
Seasonic almost never builds crap.

 

[Virgorising]

To date enforcement of standards is rare, the last major event I recall involved a Scandinavian Country and a power supply that often caught fire.
Chinese factories produce dated power supplies removing as many components as the buyer thinks he can get away with. Using the lowest rated or quality parts.
Then they put it in a nice box labeled in lies.
There are suppliers (like deer) that all power supplies are suspect, ones like HEC who can build decent power supplies but have and do sell junk. Or Delta Who mostly does well. FSP does both.
Seasonic almost never builds crap.

OMG. Above, is the near exact delineation of the frame by frame, slomo paranoia which led me to make this thread. 'OFTEN CAUGHT FIRE"???!!!!!D:😱

Nitemare. And no special effects needed.

And maybe, what we could depend on/buy with some confidence, say, 3-4 years ago, etc.......we no longer can.🙁

Caveat Emptor is getting more and more daunting as time passes! And not only in PSUs. I do think Globalization....given what that euphemism disguises, might have gene the coup de gras. Again, not ONLY re computer components.

Other day, I heard in last Olympics, Ralph Lauren (I think he is a joke; the guy gets over), after designing America's teams' apparel, took major flak form passionate activists when they discovered all of it had been made in China....by definition by near slave labor.

So, this year, he/they were forced to make all of it domestically.

Not sure how we can organize and stop the erosion of quality in computer components.....I just wish we could is all.

 

[bryanl]

All of the above, truly does comprise a graduate level tutorial!

Graduate level for business majors but freshman level for science or engineering majors.

 

[Virgorising]

Graduate level for business majors but freshman level for science or engineering majors.

First, I was speaking happily for myself. I am not insecure, so, am not competitive nor experience myself or any other narrowly within some category or on some Excel spread sheet/bar graph/pie chart, etc.

And, between the simple (ostensible0 polarities you mention, we find most of humanity.

Plus, owning esoteric arcane knowledge of this and that is never a marker for richness….but being moved to richness compells humans to chase those data…..but hopefully, in perspective.

Just as important here is what this is all emblematic of in the world: in commerce, integrity and the need for it, caveat emptor, chicanery, reasonable expections and all things related.

Only on its face is this about PSUs per se!

 

[bryanl]

All of the above, truly does comprise a graduate level tutorial! A-AMAZZZZZING.

Graduate level for business majors but freshman level for science or engineering majors.

First, I was speaking happily for myself. I am not insecure, so, am not competitive nor experience myself or any other narrowly within some category or on some Excel spread sheet/bar graph/pie chart, etc.

And, between the simple (ostensible0 polarities you mention, we find most of humanity.

Plus, owning esoteric arcane knowledge of this and that is never a marker for richness….but being moved to richness compells humans to chase those data…..but hopefully, in perspective.

Just as important here is what this is all emblematic of in the world: in commerce, integrity and the need for it, caveat emptor, chicanery, reasonable expections and all things related.

Only on its face is this about PSUs per se!

Business major?

 

[Virgorising]

Business major?

Sorry.....you lost the Grammy with that one.🙄 (But I expected and luved Pharrell did win more than one.)

Not only was I not, never would be in this life, a Business major....I would never date one, or hang out with one.

I wasn't, wouldn't and don't.🙂

Think: would someone who is all about that form of currency have made this thread?
________________________________________
PS: what I AM interested in, is working to promulgate integrity in ALL human arenas....including business. I can't think of much, more important for the collective....the health and survival of any civilization.

Character.....really is destiny.

 

[infoiltrator]

Power supplies are supposed to last long and provide ATX specification output. Scammers and cost cutters survive because to a large portion of the world market a box with wires is a box with wires.
There is design quality, build quality, and advertised quality.
There are four grades of capacitors involved, Japanese, Taiwanese, China Fair, and China Bad.
Corsair is using some low quality capacitors in the CX series, though they are getting enough flak they may change that.
Their claim is PSUs run cool enough, and design runs well enough, poor capacitors are adequate.
jonnyguru forum is a good source of power supply information
Might interest you
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11310

 

[Virgorising]

Power supplies are supposed to last long and provide ATX specification output. Scammers and cost cutters survive because to a large portion of the world market a box with wires is a box with wires.
There is design quality, build quality, and advertised quality.
There are four grades of capacitors involved, Japanese, Taiwanese, China Fair, and China Bad.
Corsair is using some low quality capacitors in the CX series, though they are getting enough flak they may change that.
Their claim is PSUs run cool enough, and design runs well enough, poor capacitors are adequate.
jonnyguru forum is a good source of power supply information
Might interest you
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11310

Interesting! Esp the respective capacitors. I would think same might be true for mobos. But I sure hope not.

I am heartened that Corsair is getting flak from consumers. That is how we make things better. but saddend that they are willing to do what they clearly are for their budget line. Some brands of RAM manage to maintain quality even in their budget lines.