Dell PowerEdge T110/T310 VS. Building my own

GCS

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Oct 16, 1999
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Should I just buy what I need from Dell or build my own?

Concerns on the Dell -- they will not support you if you use HDDs other than from them. 1TB drives (which I need) from them are like $600 and I have to use a special RAID card from them (a PERC card).

So cost moves me up to at least 2k or more for the setup I need. If I opt to go with the Dell and still use other drives than theirs then I don't get support which I would think would be one of the main reasons to go with the Dell (ie the support)

If I build my own I have no support other than me (and the friendly folks here at HF and Anandtech). Building my own I think the cost would be under $1000 when all is said and done.

Question is will I be able to get good high quality server parts and stay under 1k?



Backgound on my needs

This is for a small accounting office.

No more than 7 employees at one time.
10-12 computers in the building (including the server).
We do work from home via VPN.

Network is all Cisco POE routers/switches. Main unit is a Cisco UC520.

New server will run SBS 2008 (as long as I can get it installed and configured ... yikes!!)


We currently use our server (it is running Windows XP Pro) to access our data only and there are "database manager" apps that run in the background to give us access to our tax and accounting files. All other programs are physically installed and run on our workstations.

Network is a standard peer to peer in a Workgroup environment. All computers are hard coded to a specific IP address.

We have an outside email service that handles our website and email accounts.

Our move to SBS 2008 with Exchange is prompted by our need/want to go as paperless as possible. To do that our faxes need to be received and stored electronically vs paper. Our UC520 will do this for us but has to do it with Exchange Server.

Based on research and input from others here and at Anandtech it looks like for our purposes a move to SBS 2008 would be a good idea but we probably need to beef up our server.

I would like to keep the budget as minimal as possible but realize that I don't want to skimp on essentials.

We would be looking to put this in a normal tower case as vs a rack mount so that we can have access to it all times.

We will also want to move our existing "data" drives over to the new server once it is ready to be deployed (these are currently (2) 1 TB WD Drives running in a mirrored array with a simply promise Raid card)

Please provide your suggestions for motherboard/CPU/ram combos that would be appropriate for our needs.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Greg
 

imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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What is down time worth to you? If 2 years from now, you can call Dell and have them 4 hour or overnight a part to you, does that sound better than the chance that the system board in the machine you built might only exist on ebay used and with a weeks worth of shipping.

I personally run for the hills from home brew servers in business but a week of downtime might be ok for you so that is your decision.

As for the disks, you were most likely looking at the SAS 1 TB drives. They cost about $600. I just loaded 5 of these in my SAN for archival storage about 3 months ago. If you can deal with SATA they should be cheaper. Also the PERC is not really "special" it is just an LSI controller. PERC is just PowerEdge Raid Controller.

Anyway the main point is your hedging a bet. The equipment may run with no issues for 10 years. It might be fraught with problems. If there is problems what is the time worth to you? How much is the if worth to you?
 
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GCS

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Yes downtime is important but to be on the "super dooper overnight part fix" dell plan is WAY more than the numbers I posted above.

I structure is very simply and if something went out I would most likely hit the local computer shop for a new board or new raid or new drive or what not and just eat the higher cost by purchasing locally.

While I am not knocking Dell I also don't want to be paying $600 per drive when the same drive (yes settling for SATA) can be had for $100.

I guess if the drives were more like $300 I would probably just go the Dell route but I still would not pay for the higher end support plan as I think that is too much.

Greg
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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I've worked with Dell on service calls for Dell servers for several years and never them ask me what hard disks were on the server. Dell won't replace drives they didn't provide, obviously.
 

Fayd

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Jun 28, 2001
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Yes downtime is important but to be on the "super dooper overnight part fix" dell plan is WAY more than the numbers I posted above.

I structure is very simply and if something went out I would most likely hit the local computer shop for a new board or new raid or new drive or what not and just eat the higher cost by purchasing locally.

While I am not knocking Dell I also don't want to be paying $600 per drive when the same drive (yes settling for SATA) can be had for $100.

I guess if the drives were more like $300 I would probably just go the Dell route but I still would not pay for the higher end support plan as I think that is too much.

Greg

could just build 2 identical servers and set them to mirror eachother. if one fails the other works till you get the first back up. no downtime.
 

GCS

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Oct 16, 1999
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I've worked with Dell on service calls for Dell servers for several years and never them ask me what hard disks were on the server. Dell won't replace drives they didn't provide, obviously.

Well this was the direction I would like to go as I can what I want from Dell (w/o the drives of course) for $1000 with 3 years support (hardware replacement only) and includes the Perc Raid card from them all though I am told the appropriate cards can be found on ebay for $100.

Greg
 

GCS

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could just build 2 identical servers and set them to mirror eachother. if one fails the other works till you get the first back up. no downtime.

This is sort of what my local IT is recommending me as a Backup system/Disaster Recovery unit. It is a monthly fee type of service $200/month.

They supply the equipment and the system is in constant mirror of the server and then every night it offloads a full backup of my server to the west coast and east coast. It can then be put in place of my server on a temporary basis if needed until I get my server fixed/replaced.


Sounds like a decent service but $200 a month adds up when you are in a small business.

Greg
 

Fayd

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Jun 28, 2001
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This is sort of what my local IT is recommending me as a Backup system/Disaster Recovery unit. It is a monthly fee type of service $200/month.

They supply the equipment and the system is in constant mirror of the server and then every night it offloads a full backup of my server to the west coast and east coast. It can then be put in place of my server on a temporary basis if needed until I get my server fixed/replaced.


Sounds like a decent service but $200 a month adds up when you are in a small business.

Greg

i guess the question is whether you want to be protected from a fire in your office or not. :p
 

imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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Yes downtime is important but to be on the "super dooper overnight part fix" dell plan is WAY more than the numbers I posted above.

I structure is very simply and if something went out I would most likely hit the local computer shop for a new board or new raid or new drive or what not and just eat the higher cost by purchasing locally.

While I am not knocking Dell I also don't want to be paying $600 per drive when the same drive (yes settling for SATA) can be had for $100.

I guess if the drives were more like $300 I would probably just go the Dell route but I still would not pay for the higher end support plan as I think that is too much.

Greg

NP, it is just what you value your data and time at. When you comment about just swapping the the motherboard, if it ok for you to have down time while you muck around with trying to get the OS to boot properly on new storage controller, and system hardware, possibly a new CPU / RAM then go for it.

As a side note. I did a search and you can buy the disks for about $189. Search for a 1TB disk and select the "Dell" brand. The have them in there for $189. My Dell rep has stated and they have delivered on this comment: Any "DELL" bought product installed in the a "Dell" machine under warranty is covered by the warranty. I upgraded a PE R610 and they swapped the purchased ram out under the servers warranty since it was "Dell" brand. Just a note. You are not required to use the perc (it is an option on that unit.) You can do software RAID if you want.

PE T310 just looks like a desktop however. I would call in to sales or ask chat support how the disks mount. If it is a removable frame inside you can just buy the cheaper disks and bolt them in. 3Yr next business day support is also included on the $529 unit. I can understand wanting to not spend money, however servers and networks tend to be the worst place to go cheap at. I know tons of people here like to disagree with me, but building a server from parts = money saved from buying part = money spent wasting your time building it, testing it and implementing it.
 
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GCS

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i guess the question is whether you want to be protected from a fire in your office or not. :p

We already run a mirrored array in the server now in case of drive failure and I would port that same plan over to the new server as well as our external nightly back up/carry offsite.

Essentially we cart a backup out of the office every day on our own. This "service" would in essence automate the whole process and would not require me or anyone else to take the backup drive off-site each evening. Is that worth $200 a month? Questionable.

Greg
 

GCS

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Oct 16, 1999
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NP, it is just what you value your data and time at. When you comment about just swapping the the motherboard, if it ok for you to have down time while you muck around with trying to get the OS to boot properly on new storage controller, and system hardware, possibly a new CPU / RAM then go for it.

As a side note. I did a search and you can buy the disks for about $189. Search for a 1TB disk and select the "Dell" brand. The have them in there for $189. My Dell rep has stated and they have delivered on this comment: Any "DELL" bought product installed in the a "Dell" machine under warranty is covered by the warranty. I upgraded a PE R610 and they swapped the purchased ram out under the servers warranty since it was "Dell" brand. Just a note. You are not required to use the perc (it is an option on that unit.) You can do software RAID if you want.

PE T310 just looks like a desktop however. I would call in to sales or ask chat support how the disks mount. If it is a removable frame inside you can just buy the cheaper disks and bolt them in. 3Yr next business day support is also included on the $529 unit. I can understand wanting to not spend money, however servers and networks tend to be the worst place to go cheap at. I know tons of people here like to disagree with me, but building a server from parts = money saved from buying part = money spent wasting your time building it, testing it and implementing it.


Well we would need a tower server because of where this needs to go (nowhere to put a rackmount) and yes based on research there are drive cages involved with this series. Unfortunately it appears the cages have to come from Dell and you can only get them IF you buy the hard drive with the tower so I am not sure how to tackle this issue at the moment as I am still researching it.

I will look for the Dell 1TB drives directly then as I was only looking at the price if I got them with the server itself and that is $579 for SATA drives or $629 for SAS drives. Thanks for pointing this out.

Greg
 

GCS

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Oct 16, 1999
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As a side note. I did a search and you can buy the disks for about $189. Search for a 1TB disk and select the "Dell" brand. The have them in there for $189. My Dell rep has stated and they have delivered on this comment: Any "DELL" bought product installed in the a "Dell" machine under warranty is covered by the warranty. I upgraded a PE R610 and they swapped the purchased ram out under the servers warranty since it was "Dell" brand. Just a note. You are not required to use the perc (it is an option on that unit.) You can do software RAID if you want.


Were these drives listed on their site or elsewhere as I can only find Dell 1TB drives for $659 each
 

imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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GCS

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Well I just confirmed with a Dell rep that you have to buy the $600 drives from them as the cages/hardware to mount them in the case ONLY come with drives.

After googling a bit this seems to be the problem with their new server line (T110/310) and a source for the cages has not shown up yet.
 

imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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Well I just confirmed with a Dell rep that you have to buy the $600 drives from them as the cages/hardware to mount them in the case ONLY come with drives.

After googling a bit this seems to be the problem with their new server line (T110/310) and a source for the cages has not shown up yet.

Yeah sorry. I am not sure why they are doing that. My premier price is a lot lower also.
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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Don't the Dell T300/T310 models include empty drive carriers when you order the CABLED version of the server (NOT the hot-swap version)? The following photo of a Dell T300 shows empty drive carriers:

http://www.css-networks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/9.jpg

My single-disk Dell SC440, which uses the same design of carrier, came with an empty carrier in the unused drive slot. The usual practice for servers is to provide mounts for non-hot-swap disks, but if you order a hot-swap chassis, you have to buy carriers.

There's no reason to get a hot-swap chassis for most small business servers. It just causes problems (and expense) getting disks.
 

imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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Don't the Dell T300/T310 models include empty drive carriers when you order the CABLED version of the server (NOT the hot-swap version)? The following photo of a Dell T300 shows empty drive carriers:

http://www.css-networks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/9.jpg

My single-disk Dell SC440, which uses the same design of carrier, came with an empty carrier in the unused drive slot. The usual practice for servers is to provide mounts for non-hot-swap disks, but if you order a hot-swap chassis, you have to buy carriers.

There's no reason to get a hot-swap chassis for most small business servers. It just causes problems (and expense) getting disks.

Those look identical to the Precision line carriers. If so they are easy to find and really cheap to buy.
 

GCS

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Based on research the scuttle I am hearing is that the 110/310 series is a different design than the 100/300 and thus the carriers are new and not out in the wild at this time.

The Dell rep I spoke said the carriers only come with the Dell drives. If you order your 110/310 with only 1 drive you only get 1 carrier.

He could be wrong but that is what I was told.

Greg
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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With the T110/T310 so new, it's hard to tell what they've got. I saw a blurb about "metal hard drive carriers", so maybe Dell has changed them. There's also mention of "Quad Pack LED Diagnostics" with the cabled drives. Sounds like Dell has made the carriers much more complicated (and pricey, of course). But looking at the T310 manual shows a carrier that looks like just a simple plastic carrier.

I looked at the Dell T310 a while back and decided to order a T300 instead, mostly because the T310 was so new and because it took DDR3 memory, which was pricey for what my client needed.
 
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imagoon

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Feb 19, 2003
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Based on research the scuttle I am hearing is that the 110/310 series is a different design than the 100/300 and thus the carriers are new and not out in the wild at this time.

The Dell rep I spoke said the carriers only come with the Dell drives. If you order your 110/310 with only 1 drive you only get 1 carrier.

He could be wrong but that is what I was told.

Greg


When I think about it, you could just go and by a Precision desktop. They are basically Dell servers in a "desktop" case. The ones I ordered for CAD showed up with all the carriers in them.

edit: now that I look they still have drives priced way high. Hrm I dunno. It would be a chance really. I got 1 drive with 3 blanks in mine.
 
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connersamson

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Dec 23, 2009
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Hi, I just now have some experience with the T310. The server was ordered with a single, cabled 250GB HD (a Dell Branded Western Digital RE3) and it did include 3 additional blue hard drive cages. As a side note these cages are the same blue plastic cages Dell has used in the past and if you need additional you can always find them on eBay with Dell P/N YJ221.

Please note the power supply in this T310 has a proprietary hard drive power cable and only has 2 standard SATA power connections. The hard drive cable included with the server has one 8-pin female connection fitting to the power supply connector. This does not allow an easy upgrade path to RAID solutions.

I am not familiar with the hot swap option for this server and if the backplane included would change power requirements or ability to move to a RAID setup.

Hope this helps!
 

RebateMonger

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Dec 24, 2005
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Any chance you could describe that hard drive cabling in more detail? The drawing in the T310 manual shows a combined data/power connector at the hard drives. You can get those commercially( http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.as...POW&ID=1194893 ). But it sounds like you are saying the other end of that cable is non-standard.

It'd seem like you could always hook up splitters to the two available standard SATA power connectors to power a couple more drives. And just run standard SATA data cables either to SATA data connectors on the motherboard or on a RAID card.
 
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