Deliberately planned and persistent campaign to frame Linus Torvalds

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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Ugh.

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907

The short version is: if you are any kind of open-source leader or senior figure who is male, do not be alone with any female, ever, at a technical conference. Try to avoid even being alone, ever, because there is a chance that a “women in tech” advocacy group is going to try to collect your scalp.

Sad thing is, I am seeing more and more of this type of crap. :(
 

Markbnj

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OP you read a lot into that post, although I am inclined to believe there is probably something to it.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
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I'm not really sure I understand what's going on, like is someone trying to take him hostage or something?

I do know the NSA has approached him before about adding kernel backdoors. I could see them eventually get more hostile about it.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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tbh until there's an actual accusation and not just some anonymous, "reliable" source in the form of a chatlog, I'm going to call shens.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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OP you read a lot into that post, although I am inclined to believe there is probably something to it.

Yeah. OMG, its the feminists they're coming to get you!

But wait, its really about ethics in journalism in coding!

Plus, considering these are tech people, um, wouldn't the better thing be to carry something and record all comments said when you're around such people? Why not prove them to be doing what you're claiming and shut the shit down irrefutably?

Considering Torvalds volatile nature I'm guessing he has people around him to keep someone from punching his fucking face in after he mouths off like he's prone to doing. That and I'm guessing he probably has rather devoted following (read: cult) since tech nerds seem prone to being the cliquey dip shits that they bitch about hating in high school.

But yeah, I'm sure none of these guys have ever tried to get women alone to try and hit on them. That's never ever happened ever at all!
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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Yeah. OMG, its the feminists they're coming to get you!

But wait, its really about ethics in journalism in coding!

Plus, considering these are tech people, um, wouldn't the better thing be to carry something and record all comments said when you're around such people? Why not prove them to be doing what you're claiming and shut the shit down irrefutably?

Considering Torvalds volatile nature I'm guessing he has people around him to keep someone from punching his fucking face in after he mouths off like he's prone to doing. That and I'm guessing he probably has rather devoted following (read: cult) since tech nerds seem prone to being the cliquey dip shits that they bitch about hating in high school.

But yeah, I'm sure none of these guys have ever tried to get women alone to try and hit on them. That's never ever happened ever at all!

Recording laws are draconian and there's a good chance that these kind of events have private restrictions against recording devices as well.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Recording laws are draconian and there's a good chance that these kind of events have private restrictions against recording devices as well.

If you think they're going to press charges on someone proving they were being framed (beyond possibly a slap on the wrist fine) then I don't know what to say. Considering the allegations I sure as shit wouldn't be caring about that.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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OP you read a lot into that post, although I am inclined to believe there is probably something to it.

I dunno, following what ESR (Eric Raymond) has been doing for years, I don't think he would just post this out of the blue if he didn't have hard facts.
Could he have said more? Sure, but, he is protecting his source.

This has been talked about for a few days now, ever since his post, and you get the typical replies as seen already in this thread.

Will we get more information? No idea, guess we will just have to wait and see.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
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Illegal recordings are generally inadmissible in court afaik.

Why is that? I never understood why a person can't use a recording to defend themselves from false accusations. If you disclose that you are recording them obviously then they won't make the false accusations. So the only way to defend yourself is to have hidden, undisclosed recording devices but they are inadmissible.

By what reasoning have the legislators made these recordings inadmissible?

Speaking of which, when you have a video recording of a traffic accident, that is admissible right? But you never told all the other drivers you are videoing them!
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
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IRC conversations should always be taken seriously. I mean IRC right. It's serious business.
 

Brian Stirling

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Feb 7, 2010
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As I understand it, if the sate or locality has rules that prevent the use of recorded material without consent from both/all parties then it can't be admitted into court. However, if someone is questioned under oath and lies then the recording can be used to refute the testimony.

So, if one side in the dispute, call them side A, does not want to have the recording come in they must either answer all relevant questions accurately or refuse to answer ALL relevant questions. The approach for side B then is to get someone from side A on the stand and ask them relevant questions -- then, the witness must either answer all question truthfully or refuse to answer all questions. So, if the witness answers truthfully he is incriminated by his own testimony, but if he refuses to answer the questions the jury will likely infer that he's hiding something.


Brian
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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Ugh.

Sad thing is, I am seeing more and more of this type of crap. :(

Me, too. I can't believe how many more misogynists are cropping up. Glad you pointed it out. That was what you were talking about, wasn't it?
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
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Linus is kind of a dick, and his rants on the kernel development newsgroups are legendary.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he got caught up in some sort of scandal and had to turn over kernel maintenance to someone with a better temperament for management.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
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Linus is kind of a dick, and his rants on the kernel development newsgroups are legendary.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he got caught up in some sort of scandal and had to turn over kernel maintenance to someone with a better temperament for management.

He's pretty fair. He's only a dick with people who should know better.

n Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Are you saying that pulseaudio is entering on some weird loop if the
> returned value is not -EINVAL? That seems a bug at pulseaudio.

Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

It's a bug alright - in the kernel. How long have you been a
maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel
maintenance?

If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the
kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to
understand?

To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter
CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error
return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No
such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done
on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that
ENOENT would ever be valid.

> So, on a first glance, this doesn't sound like a regression,
> but, instead, it looks tha pulseaudio/tumbleweed has some serious
> bugs and/or regressions.

Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious
garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another
error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken
by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown
yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly
and immediately myself.

WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't
break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email
was so _horribly_ wrong, and the patch that broke things was so
obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an
insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a
few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").

The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space,
and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just
shameful. It's not how we work.

Fix your f*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken.
And fix your approach to kernel programming.

Linus

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75

The Linux kernel has dominated computing under his leadership. I don't see any need to change.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Illegal recordings are generally inadmissible in court afaik.

That doesn't even matter and as someone else posted it absolutely would play a role in a trial even if it was originally inadmissable. Plus, how many of these similar sexual harassment/assault accusations have even gone to court? Public opinion will matter more. Not only that but if they're so disgusted by it, then do something about it. Like say the Greg Hardy situation where people are saying its her fault he didn't get punished since she did not show up for court, then why isn't it these people's fault for not exposing conspiracy like this, especially when it would be quite easy to accomplish. I mean, if this stuff is allegedly happening so often, I'd think stamping it out would become a priority as it would help improve things, it would help serve some justice to shitty people pulling stuff like this, and it could possibly help other people who might be similarly targeted.

I've seen shitloads of proof (hell just go dig through that shitpile that was Gamergate; I've had female friends show me chat logs of stuff that guys have sent them on Facebook and other places and have seen guys straight up follow them around stores and try and corner them in hallways and say really fucked up stuff to them) of the fucked up skeevy shit some guys have done. I have seen effectively zero evidence of all these honey pot conspiracies to take down prominent men. In fact, it almost always seems to come out that not only was the guy very likely guilty of it, they have a long history of doing shit like that. Some instances of just harassment I don't think the guy might have had real intention/will, they were just talking shit (in general and like how many guys do) and haven't learned what is and isn't fine to say around the opposite sex after being involved in such a male dominated field. Hell they might have even meant it ironically, as in they were pantomiming shithead misogyny for a joke and the person didn't realize it (as some people just don't seem to be able to understand satire and irony). But that's the thing, a person that does that and learns that someone took offense would likely stop doing it and hopefully would apologize and try to make it clear that they understand (actually shit just them understanding that maybe something they say could be taken as offensive especially regards to sex would be a huge first step). Generally what happens though is they put their feet all the way up to their assholes in their mouths while talking out of their asses creating a mobius strip of shit spewing idiocy.

I dunno, following what ESR (Eric Raymond) has been doing for years, I don't think he would just post this out of the blue if he didn't have hard facts.
Could he have said more? Sure, but, he is protecting his source.

This has been talked about for a few days now, ever since his post, and you get the typical replies as seen already in this thread.

Will we get more information? No idea, guess we will just have to wait and see.

Who the person is doesn't matter if they can't/won't provide anything tangible to support it. Trustworthy people can be manipulated to believe bullshit, and liars can tell the truth. Without evidence and facts to support it then its less than worthless as it actually will undermine the person making such claims themselves.

With similar claims a lot of them by a certain "viewpoint" have consistently proven to be specious at best and often actually expose what a piece of shit the side they're defending actually is. But people glob onto it for different reasons (and in this instance, there's a lot of people that idolize Torvalds, so I have concerns that some would defend him regardless).

Don't get me wrong, and I want to make this very clear. I'm not condemning him over this without proof either. Maybe I don't keep up with goings on enough, but I don't recall hearing about such allegations towards him. In fact, that alone causes me to be skeptical of this, as this seems to be getting the cart ahead of the horse. But perhaps Torvalds has actually been keeping a lid on this to try and not let it turn things into a cesspit like it has elsewhere. Without anything beyond some IRC logs I will remain skeptical.

I think we're seeing that happen as well. Some people have taken so much offense to "overt" PC to the point that they've started witch hunts to try and suss out any potential of that and make a fuss when there wasn't even such allegations to begin with. They claim they're against certain things but then resort to it themselves. And they're so blinded by their new dogma that they can't even see it.
 
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HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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As I understand it, if the sate or locality has rules that prevent the use of recorded material without consent from both/all parties then it can't be admitted into court. However, if someone is questioned under oath and lies then the recording can be used to refute the testimony.

So, if one side in the dispute, call them side A, does not want to have the recording come in they must either answer all relevant questions accurately or refuse to answer ALL relevant questions. The approach for side B then is to get someone from side A on the stand and ask them relevant questions -- then, the witness must either answer all question truthfully or refuse to answer all questions. So, if the witness answers truthfully he is incriminated by his own testimony, but if he refuses to answer the questions the jury will likely infer that he's hiding something.


Brian

So obviously IANAL and don't know much about the specifics of the law, but under that scenario what is to prevent someone from simply answering the questions non-truthfully but convincingly? In California at least they have pretty strict anti-recording laws and I can find at least one law firm that claims illegal recordings cannot even be used to prove perjury.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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He's an egomaniac who spent time writing linux and git when he should have been learning social graces. Sure, he's a genius, but there's basically no pervy shit somebody could accuse him of that I wouldn't believe.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
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He's an egomaniac who spent time writing linux and git when he should have been learning social graces. Sure, he's a genius, but there's basically no pervy shit somebody could accuse him of that I wouldn't believe.

This is why personal recording needs to become accepted. The simple happenstance of being ugly, nerdy, "creepy", etc will get you labeled a deviant and a criminal. It's like those stories of middle aged balding dudes leaving the playground with their daughters, only to get bombarded by a pack of angry housewives accusing him of being a pedo.