DEJA VUE! THE supreme court does it again!

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
cnn

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court sided Monday with white firefighters in a workplace discrimination lawsuit, a divisive case over the role race should play in job advancement.

the split 5-4 vote, a majority of the justices ruled that the city of New Haven, Connecticut, improperly threw out the results of promotional exams that officials said left too few minorities qualified.

One Latino and no African-American firefighters qualified for promotion based on the exam; the city subsequently decided not to certify the results and issued no promotions.

A group of 20 mostly white firefighters sued, claiming reverse discrimination. Watch the potential implications »

High court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor heard the case on her federal appeals court last year and sided with the city.

The Supreme Court was being asked to decide whether there was a continued need for special treatment for minorities, or whether enough progress has been made to make existing laws obsolete, especially in a political atmosphere in which an African-American occupies the White House.

At issue was whether the city intentionally discriminated -- in violation of both federal law and the Constitution's Equal Protection Clause.


The city rejected the test results solely because the higher scoring candidates were white," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority. "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

In a dissent read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioned the fairness of the test, which was 60 percent written and 40 percent oral.

"Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."

"Congress endeavored to promote equal opportunity in fact, and not simply in form. The damage today's decision does to that objective is untold," she said.

Key plaintiff Frank Ricci and others took promotional exams in 2003 for lieutenant and captain positions that had become available in New Haven.

When the results came back, city attorneys expressed concern about the results, and the New Haven corporation counsel -- after several public hearings -- refused to certify the test, and no promotions were given.

The city said that under a federal civil rights law known as Title VII, employers must ban actions such as promotion tests that would have a "disparate impact" on a protected class, such as a specified race or gender.

The Obama administration took a nuanced position on the appeal. A Justice Department lawyer told the high court that while the federal government supported the city's discretion to nullify the test results, it also believed the lawsuit should be allowed to proceed on a limited basis.

Kennedy argued that "the process was open [and] fair" and that the city officials "were careful to ensure broad racial participation in the design of the test itself and its administration."

He added that "race-based action like the city's in this case is impermissible under Title VII unless the employer can demonstrate a strong basis in evidence that, had it not taken the action, it would have been liable" under the law dealing with "disparate impact."

Kennedy said the city had not met that threshold.

The case has received added attention because Sotomayor was on the appellate court that dismissed the appeal.

Sotomayor was part of a three-judge panel that ruled in February 2008 to uphold a lower court decision supporting New Haven's move to throw out the results.

In June 2008, Sotomayor was part of a 7-6 majority that denied a rehearing of the case by the full court.

Legal analysts said they expect Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee will want to ask about her role in that case as well as her comments about ethnicity and the bench.

In other business:

? The court said it will reargue a campaign finance reform case dealing with a scathing documentary about former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. The justices put off an expected ruling and will rehear the issues on September 9. The court usually begins its fall term in early October. At issue was whether the 90-minute "Hillary: The Movie" -- as well as television ads to promote the film -- should have been subject to strict campaign finance laws on political advocacy or was instead a constitutionally protected form of commercial speech.


holly shit! amazing. i really thought they would keep it as is. intersting. wonder what is going to happen from it?
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
There's no such thing as "reverse" racism or "reverse" discrimination. It's just plain ol' racism and discrimination. The "reverse-" terms are only used by ignorant people!

Oh, and I'm glad they ruled in favor of indiscrimination.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Great day :thumbsup:

The racists will be crying into their pillows tonight.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
Originally posted by: Nik
There's no such thing as "reverse" racism or "reverse" discrimination. It's just plain ol' racism and discrimination. The "reverse-" terms are only used by ignorant people!

Oh, and I'm glad they ruled in favor of indiscrimination.
Yes, but according to quite a few members of this site, BY DEFINITION, only whites can be racist.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Great day :thumbsup:

The racists will be crying into their pillows tonight.

yeap. hireing or fireing based on race should never happen. its sad that we need laws and its even in the courts. i would think its common sense. Hire the best person who best fits teh job.

 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Originally posted by: Nik
There's no such thing as "reverse" racism or "reverse" discrimination. It's just plain ol' racism and discrimination. The "reverse-" terms are only used by ignorant people!

Oh, and I'm glad they ruled in favor of indiscrimination.
Yes, but according to quite a few members of this site, BY DEFINITION, only whites can be racist.

Reverse-racism would indicate that racist policy or practice has been turned around on the racist, when in fact, the policy or practice hasn't been turned around, it has just had Black\White\Brown\Yellow\Red swapped around a bit in the definition.

I think the ruling in this case should put doubt in those that are supporting Sotamayjor as it proves that her view point is not in touch with the Constitution.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I think the ruling in this case should put doubt in those that are supporting Sotamayjor as it proves that her view point is not in touch with the Constitution.
Are you saying that 4 of the sitting SC Justices are not in touch with the Constitution?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I think the ruling in this case should put doubt in those that are supporting Sotamayjor as it proves that her view point is not in touch with the Constitution.
Are you saying that 4 of the sitting SC Justices are not in touch with the Constitution?

Yes. And the ruling backs that up.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
why does this even have to go this high up? Is this not common fucking sense?

"Minorities" were not prevented from taking the exam and had the same test as the dreaded "white man", who gives a shit what the results were?
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
if 10 guys take the test, 5 pass and 5 fail... then 5 guys get the raise.
dont matter if the 5 passwers were all white.


hire the best man for the job regardless of race or color.
race quotas piss me off.


 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
Originally posted by: ric1287
why does this even have to go this high up? Is this not common fucking sense?

"Minorities" were not prevented from taking the exam and had the same test as the dreaded "white man", who gives a shit what the results were?
Special interest groups of non-white members. The kind of groups that get upset anytime they dont get free handouts.

And remember, if you dont take something someone else has earned and give it to them just because they beg, YOU'RE RACIST!!!
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I think the ruling in this case should put doubt in those that are supporting Sotamayjor as it proves that her view point is not in touch with the Constitution.
Are you saying that 4 of the sitting SC Justices are not in touch with the Constitution?

Well, what's funny is that even though the decision was 5-4, all of the judges (including those in the minority) agreed that how Sotomayor and her court came to their decision was wrong (you have to go read Ginsberg's dissent...footnote 10).
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,722
3,622
136
Was that the same town that stole a bunch of houses for a shopping mall or something? What's going on in Connecticut?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: sao123
if 10 guys take the test, 5 pass and 5 fail... then 5 guys get the raise.
dont matter if the 5 passwers were all white.


hire the best man for the job regardless of race or color.
race quotas piss me off.

yeap. thats how i ran my busness. but im a greedy fucker. i want to make as much money as i could. so i would hire the best qualifed. no matter what color or sex.

worked great for me. im not the brightest guy around but i did hire some of them heh.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,771
13
81
So Alito, Scalia and Thomas were all in favor of this? Nice to see them make some sense of the law once in a while, though this case was right up their consevative alley so all they had to do was follow their jaded little views. The liberal judges disappointed me here, how could anyone cast a dissenting vote to this?
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Originally posted by: waggy
The city rejected the test results solely because the higher scoring candidates were white," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority. "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

In a dissent read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioned the fairness of the test, which was 60 percent written and 40 percent oral.

"Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."

Wouldn't it be the case that more senior members of the fire department (lieutenants and captains), would have to do more paperwork... therefore having a written exam is justified, is it not?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
So Alito, Scalia and Thomas were all in favor of this? Nice to see them make some sense of the law once in a while, though this case was right up their consevative alley so all they had to do was follow their jaded little views. The liberal judges disappointed me here, how could anyone cast a dissenting vote to this?

as i siad before its realy a no-win decision for them.

they rule for the firefighters many are going to say something to the efect : "the US sepreme court ruled for slavery and racism. they can now fire or not hire blacks" even though thats NOT what the rulling is.

if they went against them " the US supreme court ruled that you have to hire black men over white no matter they do not know the job" etc.



this is common sense though. but racist (on both sides) can't see that. Color SHOULD NEVER enter into hireing/fireing/promotions etc.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
Also, this is a News article which is starting to turn seriously Political.

I think we all know what that means.
 

CRXican

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
9,062
1
0
Originally posted by: sao123
if 10 guys take the test, 5 pass and 5 fail... then 5 guys get the raise.
dont matter if the 5 passwers were all white.

hire the best man for the job regardless of race or color.
race quotas piss me off.
that pretty much nails it
 

CRXican

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
9,062
1
0
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: waggy
The city rejected the test results solely because the higher scoring candidates were white," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority. "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

In a dissent read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioned the fairness of the test, which was 60 percent written and 40 percent oral.

"Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."

Wouldn't it be the case that more senior members of the fire department (lieutenants and captains), would have to do more paperwork... therefore having a written exam is justified, is it not?

good point

it's not like the entry physical exams where they make sure you can get down and dirty
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: waggy
The city rejected the test results solely because the higher scoring candidates were white," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority. "Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions."

In a dissent read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg questioned the fairness of the test, which was 60 percent written and 40 percent oral.

"Relying so heavily on pencil-and-paper exams to select firefighters is a dubious practice," Ginsburg said, calling the majority ruling "troubling."

Wouldn't it be the case that more senior members of the fire department (lieutenants and captains), would have to do more paperwork... therefore having a written exam is justified, is it not?

Its searching for any excuse they can come up with to reason why no black/latino men took/passed the test. But as a result, implies that those men are stupid because they cannot pass written exams.