Defragging the MFT - WIN2k

[imported_Ugabuga]

Anyone know any free software tools out there to defrag the MFT? I know diskkeeper does but wondering about any others either free or cheaper that can do the same thing.

 

[Nothinman]

AFAIK they're all commercial, but defragging the MFT is pretty pointless anyway.

 

[imported_Ugabuga]

Out of curiousity why do you say that?

 

[Nothinman]

Do you really think the MFT is ever accessed sequentially? Most cases you need to read a file, if it's not already cached in memory you seek into the MFT, read the file info and potentially the beginning of the file if it's stored in the MFT and then seek out to access a file not in the MFT.

The only time it would really matter is in odd circumstances like when you're doing something that works on an entire directory of files and then only if the MFT were sorted so that the files were in the MFT in the exact order that you were working on them in.

 

[jbritt1234]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
The only time it would really matter is in odd circumstances like when you're doing something that works on an entire directory of files and then only if the MFT were sorted so that the files were in the MFT in the exact order that you were working on them in.

Hrm... Are not most programs designed where the core of their supporting files are installed into a folder or set of folders? So, by that theory, a VERY LARGE percentage of the files you would be accessing would be contained in a few sets of folders.

Sure, it's no big deal if the references to .doc files are spread out all over the MFT, but the core task of what Computers actually do, run programs, I would think should be benefited.

This is however a theory based on your answer, not on fact.

 

[KoolDrew]

Defrag vendors always want you to believe fragmentation of anything is much worse then it actually is.

 

[Nothinman]

Hrm... Are not most programs designed where the core of their supporting files are installed into a folder or set of folders? So, by that theory, a VERY LARGE percentage of the files you would be accessing would be contained in a few sets of folders.

Doesn't matter, most programs also depending on a ton of Windows support libraries which are scattered around Windows, Windows\System32, Program Files, Common Files, etc. And once you start the app once, it and it's dependencies will stay cached in memory until the memory is needed, so any startup delay incurred won't happen often.

Sure, it's no big deal if the references to .doc files are spread out all over the MFT, but the core task of what Computers actually do, run programs, I would think should be benefited.

How many of your programs take more than a second or two to start? Do you really think that the time saved, if any at all, is worth the life you'll take off of the hard drive by moving things around needlessly every night when you defrag?

 

[jbritt1234]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
How many of your programs take more than a second or two to start? Do you really think that the time saved, if any at all, is worth the life you'll take off of the hard drive by moving things around needlessly every night when you defrag?

Speaking of Personal Computers here but, with the failure rate so low and life expenctancy so long with modern HD's, I could really not give a dern weather a program wanted to defrag every night. Besides, if it did defrag every night, the ammount of fragmentation would be negligable. Chances are that I will have bought a bigger and faster one years before the one i'm using now would ever give up the magic smoke.

Also remember, i'm not saying i'm right either way, it was just a theory.

 

[RVN]

Nothinman...

What about reconfiguring the size of the MFT ...what effects does that have on performance?

 

[Nothinman]

with the failure rate so low and life expenctancy so long with modern HD's

You must not have owned many drives. IDE drives are crap and with the increased densities come increased errors. Most of the errors are corrected automatically by the drive but not all are and most Windows installations don't have any SMART software to warn you about problems.

What about reconfiguring the size of the MFT ...what effects does that have on performance?

Depends on the workload, but I can't imagine it would have much affect. I'm also not sure what happens when the MFT fills up, whether the NTFS driver automatically expands it or just reacts as if the filesystem were full.

 

[qbek]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I'm also not sure what happens when the MFT fills up, whether the NTFS driver automatically expands it or just reacts as if the filesystem were full.

From what little I remeber, the MFT gets expanded automatically (i.e. the driver reserves a space on a driver for future MFT use). The original size of MFT is a percentage of a HD capacity. If you happen to have a lot of small files on the disk, the MFT will need to be expanded eventually.

This might create a problem in some circumstances, since the expaned MFT might in that case be not contiguous. MFT is not movable once the sytem is loaded. So for example if you wanted to repartition your hard drive, you might want to defrag MFT or otherwise be severely constrained in your options.

 

[jbritt1234]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

with the failure rate so low and life expenctancy so long with modern HD's

You must not have owned many drives. IDE drives are crap and with the increased densities come increased errors. Most of the errors are corrected automatically by the drive but not all are and most Windows installations don't have any SMART software to warn you about problems.

Nope, owned quite a few of them. Thanks for asking though.

 

[Nothinman]

Then you must be lucky. My company (well technically not mine, I just work there) has over a thousand workstations and drives die all the time, off the top of my head I would guess that 10-20% fail within the first year. Manufacturers don't care because it's cheaper just to make more and let you RMA them.

I've personally had 2 IDE (at least) and 1 SCSI drive die on me in the past 7 years or so. And I've owned a good bit more SCSI drives than I have IDE ones.