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Defense Minister: Israel needs to recognize the occupation must end

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
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Israel must recognize that the world will not put up with decades more of Israeli rule over the Palestinian people, Defense Minister Ehud Barak said in unusually frank remarks Monday.

Barak's comments came against the backdrop of severe friction between the U.S. and Israel's hawkish government over an impasse in peacemaking.

"The world isn't willing to accept - and we won't change that in 2010 - the expectation that Israel will rule another people for decades more," he said. "It's something that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world."

"The alienation that is developing with the United States is not good for Israel," Barak said during a Memorial Day radio interview. "We have strong ties with the United States, a bond, long-term friendship and strategic partnership. We receive three billion dollars from them each year; we get the best planes in the world from them."

"For all these reasons we must act to change things," Barak said, while voicing doubt that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would soon enjoy the same warm ties with the White House as his predecessors did when President George W. Bush was in office.

With Netanyahu and U.S. President Barack Obama sharply at odds over settlement policy in territories which the Palestinians eye for a state, Barak held out the prospect of reshaping Israel's government so that it could make bold land-for-peace moves.

"With a broad readiness to go for a [peace] agreement, Israeli governments have overcome many obstacles in the daily discourse with the Americans about building in this or that settlement or a Jerusalem neighborhood," Barak said about long-standing differences with Washington over the issue.

Barak's comments echoed a call last Thursday from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for Israel to take "concrete steps toward peace" or risk empowering Islamist militant groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

The Obama administration responded angrily last month when Israel announced a project, during a visit by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, to build a 1,600 more homes for Jews in a part of the West Bank that it annexed to Jerusalem.

The Palestinians subsequently cancelled plans to enter into U.S.-mediated, indirect talks with Israel and Netanyahu has yet to respond to a U.S. list of steps that Washington wants him to take to coax them back to the negotiating table.

Political sources in Israel said Washington proposed 11 such "confidence-building" measures, which have not been disclosed publicly but are thought to include freezing Israeli construction in East Jerusalem.

The Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of the state they intend to establish in the West Bank, and say settlements could deny them a viable state.

Sources said Netanyahu, who has pledged not to place curbs on building homes for Israelis in and around East Jerusalem, was unlikely to agree in full to all of the steps Washington seeks.

To do so, the sources said, could cause his coalition to disintegrate, and continued friction with Obama could be a price the Israeli leader would be willing to pay to remain at the helm.

Political commentators have raised the possibility of bringing in former Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's centrist Kadima party to keep Netanyahu's coalition in power if pro-settler factions decide to pull out.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1164135.html

Why does Ehud Barak hate Israel?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Enud Barack speaks for maybe a 45% more rational minority in Israel and he is hardly the first.

But the link pose an interesting question, will Kadima step in to prop Netanyuhu up if the bat shit crazy piggish settler parties withdraw from the Netanyuhu coalition, or will Kadima throw Netanyuhu under the bus, let his government fall, and hope to emerge as the Israeli party in charge after national elections.

Nor should anyone assume that the litmus test desired Israeli settlement freeze in East Jerusalem will solve much of anything except to restart peace talks, its the hard negotiations thereafter that will be the acid test.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Most Israelis (a solid 60-70%) agree that the occupation must end. The reason there are still settlements is tactical, not strategical. It's a bargaining chip for later in the game, and if it appeases some coalition partners, all the better.

We all saw what happened when the occupation ended in Gaza, right? Israelis saw too, and won't let this happen again. The Palestinians, as duly expected, made a very good case against ending the occupation.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Sammy does not understand why in saying, "We all saw what happened when the occupation ended in Gaza, right? Israelis saw too, and won't let this happen again. The Palestinians, as duly expected, made a very good case against ending the occupation."
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Regardless of the gesture of Israel withdrawing from the Gaza occupation or not, srael still maintained an indirect defacto occupation of Gaza, an it did nothing to advance the people in Gaza who will still being held in concentration camp with no ability to have self determination, autonomy, or any ability to advance their lot. And much the same thing can be said about the West Bank.

The hoped for viable Palestinian State would offer the Palestinians the ability to build up their State.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
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Sammy does not understand why in saying, "We all saw what happened when the occupation ended in Gaza, right? Israelis saw too, and won't let this happen again. The Palestinians, as duly expected, made a very good case against ending the occupation."
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Regardless of the gesture of Israel withdrawing from the Gaza occupation or not, srael still maintained an indirect defacto occupation of Gaza, an it did nothing to advance the people in Gaza who will still being held in concentration camp with no ability to have self determination, autonomy, or any ability to advance their lot. And much the same thing can be said about the West Bank.

The hoped for viable Palestinian State would offer the Palestinians the ability to build up their State.
ya especially when the gazan people voted hamas, a terrorist organization into power.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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ya especially when the gazan people voted hamas, a terrorist organization into power.
Do you even understand why they voted for Hamas? Has it ever occured to you that Palestinians have problems like you and I? Has it ever occured to you that they voted for Hamas because of these local problems, not international ones? What? You haven't? Well, they voted for them because Hamas is not corrupt, unlike Fatah.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Sammy does not understand why in saying, "We all saw what happened when the occupation ended in Gaza, right? Israelis saw too, and won't let this happen again. The Palestinians, as duly expected, made a very good case against ending the occupation."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regardless of the gesture of Israel withdrawing from the Gaza occupation or not, Israel still maintained an indirect defacto occupation of Gaza, an it did nothing to advance the people in Gaza who will still being held in concentration camp with no ability to have self determination, autonomy, or any ability to advance their lot. And much the same thing can be said about the West Bank.

The hoped for viable Palestinian State would offer the Palestinians the ability to build up their State.
Gaza was a test to see if the Palestinians would work with a land for peace swap similar to Egypt and how the Israeli population would tolerate/accept it

That test failed. The Jewish settlers were forced out (complaining), but they left. The Palestinians continued to harass Israel from the vacated areas.

What does that demonstrate?
 
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SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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WOW! how did Obama seduce Ehud Barak? was Nancy involved? or maybe Rahm :D
That's nothing new, and has nothing to do with US pressure. Look at the elected governments from the inception of Israel, I'd say they were left-leaning in a 3:1 ratio. Barak himself is the leader of the Avoda, the same party of Itzhak Rabin.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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Politics.

Labor is getting fucked in the polls.

Ehud sucked up to the Palestinians in 2000 and look how that turned out.

Even people on the left are voting for Likud because Labor has no self-respect.

And look now, violence has deceased, relations with Palestinians have improved (not public, but economic, military, etc...), Hamas for the most part is contained, etc.

Israel's "occupation" ends when Palestinians agree to a negotiated peace. Everyone knows this.

If Israel were to pull out now violence would only increase. Look at Gaza and Lebanon.

nobody in Israel likes Labor.

The most powerful Arab politicians are members of Likud and Kadima. Nearly 30% of Israeli Arabs voted for right Zionist parties...

Israel is sick of violence and the Palestinians know Likud doesn't fuck around.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
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NORMAN the holocaust denying "i express solidarity with hezbollah finkelstein?

Didn't he get kicked out of his university for academic dishonesty!?

HAHAHAH!

You have no shame Sandeagle.

Are you even American?
Finkelstein never denied the holocaust. you have a link to back that up? here's Finkelstein talking about his Jewish heritage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZeRnCEXbEw

I'm 110% American and look out for American interests. I'd ask you the same question, but everyone already knows the answer. Fool.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
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Finkelstein never denied the holocaust. you have a link to back that up? here's Finkelstein talking about his Jewish heritage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZeRnCEXbEw

I'm 110% American and look out for American interests. I'd ask you the same question, but everyone already knows the answer. Fool.
Finkelstein is a total holocaust denier.

He trivilizes the holocaust by comparing Israel to Nazi Germany and claiming Israel's enemies are the new Jews.

And he openly expresses solidarity with self-described anti-Jewish terror groups like Hezbollah and Hamas while saying knows nothing about their political philosophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe65-nF3FQ

He is Jew? Half of the communist revolutionaries were Jews and they thoroughly denied Jewish rights and were horrible antisemitic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionist_Committee_of_the_Soviet_Public

Chomksy and Finkelstein are Marxist propagandists, decedents of the failed communist dream.

Just because someone is a Jew doesn't mean they are immune from attack or incapable of being a bigot.
 

theflyingpig

Banned
Mar 9, 2008
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Defense Ministers are for leading the military to fight and kill.

They are not for expertise on peace and foreign relations.

When you ask surgeons whether a surgery is a good idea, they have a higher rate of saying yes than doctors providing other care. The Defense Minister has his own bias and lack of expertise.

We don't need them for 'expertise' on foreign policy IMO, only military matters, and even on those they're to be heard with a big grain of salt.

Defense Ministers almost by definition might not appreciate the same issues like the moral importance of not using war (some do, some don't).
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
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Now all we need is a Palestinian leader to announce that violence from his side must come to an end.

Then we will make some progress.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Now all we need is a Palestinian leader to announce that violence from his side must come to an end.

Then we will make some progress.
Really? That's all it takes? Because it's been done by Abu Mazen to no avail. Talk is cheap. Action, by both sides, is what matters.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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I am sorry they have not tried that.......they may have made a token effort but they have not tried that....
Token effort is technically try. But arabs don't have the courage/balls to really try I guess.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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I am sorry they have not tried that.......they may have made a token effort but they have not tried that....
yeah they have.

thousands of palestinians who support normalized relations with Israel have been killed as "collaborators."

Over 10,000 Palestinians live in Israel under witness protection.

Why? To protect them from the "moderate" Palestinians who hunt anyone who shows even remotely positive support for israel.

there are Arabs who want peace. Hell, there are Arab members of Likud, Yiseral Beiteinu and Kadima.

But nobody wants to end up like Sadat or Abdullah the 1st.

Arabs are more afraid of each other than of Israel. Simply showing support for Israel publically is a death sentence.

I know many "enlightened" Arab politicians in Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan all want a true, real peace with Israel and not one predicated on financial aid from the US.

But it is political suicide.

They would rather be an endless state of war with Israel.

there is nothing israel can do to change this.
 

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