Debt Limitapalooza 2023!

[dainthomas]

Mint the coin.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Can people here that lean right, why is not passing a clean debt limit increase an issue for you only when a Democrat is in the White House?

Because checks and balances thats why. ✔️

We are deeply in debt and must repay all of it eventually. It is ignorant to carry this debt monkey on our back for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

If you listen irresponsible "inflationistas" like Fskimospy cars will cost $1 trillion dollars one day because our clown money devalues by design. But it shouldn't.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Mint the coin.

Inflation solves nothing. Zimbabwe had a $100 trillion dollar bill and it still went extinct.

 

[thilanliyan]

If you listen irresponsible "inflationistas" like Fskimospy cars will cost $1 trillion dollars one day because our clown money devalues by design. But it shouldn't.

But if I'm getting paid $1 gazillion dollars, why do I care if my car costs $1 trillion?

 

[thilanliyan]

Inflation solves nothing. Zimbabwe had a $100 trillion dollar bill and it still went extinct.

Zimbabwe and USA are not the same...I think...

 

[Fenixgoon]

Inflation solves nothing. Zimbabwe had a $100 trillion dollar bill and it still went extinct.

and how many countries use the Zimbabwe dollar as their reserve currency?

one of the few ways to really, really tank the US economy would be defaulting on debt. housing crisis? survived. covid? survived. Recent inflation has proven just how stable the US economy is relative to the rest of the world, because our inflation has been among the lowest.

so yeah, if you want to crash this country, default on debt. otherwise, raise the debt limit to infinity. as long as people trust that they will get US dollars, and that their US dollars are useful, then our debt is almost meaningless.

 

[IronWing]

Minting the coin now, before exhausting the budgetary shenanigans, would make the most sense. Why waste a bunch of effort on BS we know will get reversed?

 

[brycejones]

Inflation solves nothing. Zimbabwe had a $100 trillion dollar bill and it still went extinct.

Fuck off gold bug or stop conflating two very different situations and countries.

 

[brycejones]

Because checks and balances thats why. ✔

Flag on the field. You didn't answer the question about why it only matters when a Democrat is in office. @FelixDeCat care to try again?

 

[GoPackGo]

Because checks and balances thats why. ✔

We are deeply in debt and must repay all of it eventually. It is ignorant to carry this debt monkey on our back for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

If you listen irresponsible "inflationistas" like Fskimospy cars will cost $1 trillion dollars one day because our clown money devalues by design. But it shouldn't.

Face it... that debt will NEVER be paid off. It's basically a ponzi scheme that will never run out of money... because they print it.

 

[fskimospy]

Because checks and balances thats why. ✔

We are deeply in debt and must repay all of it eventually. It is ignorant to carry this debt monkey on our back for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

If you listen irresponsible "inflationistas" like Fskimospy cars will cost $1 trillion dollars one day because our clown money devalues by design. But it shouldn't.

Why would we ever need to repay it all? That makes zero sense. The US as an entity is immortal and can roll debt over forever.

 

[NWRMidnight]

'I didn't say you are a liar, just that you are dishonest and do not argue in good faith.'

lol.



Definitely not. A lot of people here don't seem to understand what a straw man is. A straw man is when someone deliberately mischaracterizes another's argument to make it easier to defeat. I did not do that.

Using extreme scenarios is often helpful to clarify a point, and the point here was that the president can (and should!) defy unconstitutional SCOTUS orders. This is relevant because any ruling to keep the debt ceiling would be an unconstitutional order. You just don't like it because it means you have to admit I'm right and you're too dug in to back down. I understand you don't like that but that's your problem, not mine.


As already stated those are the same thing. He would be saying he won't follow it because it is unconstitutional. How is this hard to understand?


If you would like to quote what posts of mine you believe to be inconsistent then feel free.

My argument has remained exactly the same. In case it needs to be repeated it's this: Biden should declare the debt limit is unconstitutional and that he will not abide by it. If SCOTUS rules that he must he should ignore their ruling as that ruling would be ordering him to violate the constitution.

You are so full of shit! I already have pointed out posts you are inconsistent, and you come back with the same bullshit of "they mean the same".. all while ignoring my attempts to point out where you are wrong. other's have tried to point out you are wrong, but you ignore it with the same bullshit.. you refuse to see your error, and claim they all mean the same. They don't. Like I said, we will just keep going round and round because you will not get past your own twisted logic and expect an agreement with you.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Except with this supreme court, which is happy to establish/legislate ultra-right wing conservative values into law based on hypotheticals or even counterfactuals

This is where the checks and balances is supposed to kick in. but we don't have honorable people in congress, as the constitution relies on honorable people to enforce the checks and balances granted in the constitution. They should be removed, but it doesn't happen.

 

[Ajay]

Minting the coin now, before exhausting the budgetary shenanigans, would make the most sense. Why waste a bunch of effort on BS we know will get reversed?

Tail wagging the dog. It’s become a tradition .

 

[FelixDeCat]

Why would we ever need to repay it all? That makes zero sense. The US as an entity is immortal and can roll debt over forever.

Rome too was immortal until it wasn't. And yes, they too finally resorted to inflation in the end.

Deflation is the answer.

 

[fskimospy]

Rome too was immortal until it wasn't. And yes, they too finally resorted to inflation in the end.

Deflation is the answer.

I guess it depends on if you thought the Great Depression was a good thing.

I think it was bad so we shouldn’t do another one. You seem to think otherwise.

 

[Ajay]

Rome too was immortal until it wasn't. And yes, they too finally resorted to inflation in the end.

Deflation is the answer.

Yeah, it was that simple. Honest - I was there when it happened. /s

 

[FelixDeCat]

I guess it depends on if you thought the Great Depression was a good thing.

I think it was bad so we shouldn’t do another one. You seem to think otherwise.

Characterizing any deflation with *rapid* deflation is mischaracterization. What happened during the GD was rapid deflation which is akin to the mess we have now - rapid inflation. Gradually declining prices are better than gradually rising prices.

The only weak argument against deflation are those who borrow lots of money because over time the debt becomes more "expensive" as the goods financed theoretically stabilize or gradually decline in value. The example would be falling home prices relative to the amount you owe on it. But ultimately it encourages savers to buy and borrowers to commit to purchasing. And honestly, demand will ultimately set home prices so this argument is mostly just exaggeration.

 

[ivwshane]

I’ll take Dunning-Kruger for 100, please.

 

[fskimospy]

Characterizing any deflation with *rapid* deflation is mischaracterization. What happened during the GD was rapid deflation which is akin to the mess we have now - rapid inflation. Gradually declining prices are better than gradually rising prices.

The only weak argument against deflation are those who borrow lots of money because over time the debt becomes more "expensive" as the goods financed theoretically stabilize or gradually decline in value. The example would be falling home prices relative to the amount you owe on it. But ultimately it encourages savers to buy and borrowers to commit to purchasing. And honestly, demand will ultimately set home prices so this argument is mostly just exaggeration.

No. The argument against deflation is that if everyone’s money is worth more tomorrow than today then the best move is to not spend it. If everyone does that then you enter an economy paralyzing deflationary spiral.

One of the main reasons why central banks target 2% inflation each year is they want to make sure deflation does not happen because the economic effects are so catastrophic.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Not sure how trustworthy this source is, but it appears the feds won't support the minting of the coin. Not sure how true, or accurate their claim is that they don't have to accept it.

US debt default: Fed won't back $1 trillion coin rescue plan, Yellen says

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen ruled out the possibility the Federal Reserve would back a $1 trillion platinum coin to fend off the US from a debt default.

markets.businessinsider.com

 

[FelixDeCat]

No. The argument against deflation is that if everyone’s money is worth more tomorrow than today then the best move is to not spend it. If everyone does that then you enter an economy paralyzing deflationary spiral.

One of the main reasons why central banks target 2% inflation each year is they want to make sure deflation does not happen because the economic effects are so catastrophic.

Inflationistas would have you believe that 2% inflation is better than 2% deflation when in fact they are relatively the same. It is when you have too much of one or the other, ie, a "spiral" that you have a problem. The Fed knows we have an inflation spiral and has been taking all the money out of the ecomony (that they purposely flooded it with since 2008) in response.

The only spiral we are facing now is an wage inflation spiral. SS payments were increased by over 8% recently. Most people should get raises this year just to keep up with deadly, out of control inflation. (Ex. Egg prices are up hundreds of percent recently.)

 

[MrSquished]

Inflationistas would have you believe that 2% inflation is better than 2% deflation when in fact they are relatively the same. It is when you have too much of one or the other, ie, a "spiral" that you have a problem. The Fed knows we have an inflation spiral and has been taking all the money out of the ecomony (that they purposely flooded it with since 2008) in response.

The only spiral we are facing now is an wage inflation spiral. SS payments were increased by over 8% recently. Most people should get raises this year just to keep up with deadly, out of control inflation. (Ex. Egg prices are up hundreds of percent recently.)

Egg prices have way more to do with sick chickens (avian flu) than inflation, but you never have actual facts, so what else is new.

Avian influenza outbreaks reduced egg production, driving prices to record highs in 2022

Highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI)—a disease infecting birds and poultry—struck egg-laying hens throughout 2022. As a result of recurrent outbreaks, U.S. egg inventories were 29 percent lower in the final week of December 2022 than at the beginning of the year. By the end of December, more...

www.ers.usda.gov

 

[brycejones]

Inflationistas would have you believe that 2% inflation is better than 2% deflation when in fact they are relatively the same. It is when you have too much of one or the other, ie, a "spiral" that you have a problem. The Fed knows we have an inflation spiral and has been taking all the money out of the ecomony (that they purposely flooded it with since 2008) in response.

The only spiral we are facing now is an wage inflation spiral. SS payments were increased by over 8% recently. Most people should get raises this year just to keep up with deadly, out of control inflation. (Ex. Egg prices are up hundreds of percent recently.)

Wow dude, I knew you were a moron but wow

 

[fskimospy]

Inflationistas would have you believe that 2% inflation is better than 2% deflation when in fact they are relatively the same. It is when you have too much of one or the other, ie, a "spiral" that you have a problem. The Fed knows we have an inflation spiral and has been taking all the money out of the ecomony (that they purposely flooded it with since 2008) in response.

The only spiral we are facing now is an wage inflation spiral. SS payments were increased by over 8% recently. Most people should get raises this year just to keep up with deadly, out of control inflation. (Ex. Egg prices are up hundreds of percent recently.)

If they are relatively the same can you give me some examples of countries experiencing deflation while also experiencing a time of prosperity? I can show plenty of examples of the opposite.