Debating on the next hardware.... hmmmm Advice guys, please

Discussion in 'Distributed Computing' started by Markfw, Mar 3, 2017.

?

1080ti or Ryzen ?

  1. 1080TI

    47.6%
  2. Ryzen 1700X

    23.8%
  3. Ryzen 1800X

    9.5%
  4. Ryzen 1700

    19.0%
  1. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    Ryzen supports ECC RAM if the BIOS enables it. So far I have not heard of a BIOS that does so. But vendors are currently working to improve memory compatibility, so maybe ECC support will come on some boards too.

    Regrading the 1080Ti: I guess its PPD/Watt will be a little bit lower than the 1080's, at least at stock settings, and only considering the consumption of the card and not that of the host PC. I am thinking so because
    • the 1080Ti is a salvaged part, whereas the 1080 is a top-bin fully enabled part;
    • heat output per card is obviously higher on the 1080Ti than on the 1080, hence the 1080Ti will tend to develop higher temperatures in steady state unless a much better cooling solution is being provided. Higher chip temperature means lower GPU frequency at same GPU voltage, therefore less efficiency (architecture and process node being equal).
    Still, due to more PPD/card, efficiency with power consumption of the host included might be better with 1080Ti compared to 1080.

    One aspect of the 1080Ti which intrigues me as an owner of a µATX X79 board: The reference card comes without DVI connector. It is thus a bit easier to turn into a single-slot card. (No need to saw of or de-solder the DVI; just cut the slot plate and put on a fullcover waterblock.) On the other hand, Nvidia is accepting only order quantities of 2 cards per purchase (here in Europe at least), so this alone is a hurdle to get more than two cards into a µATX system such as mine quickly.

    Actual availability of the 1080Ti looks to remain just as elusive as the Titan XP at least throughout March; I wonder if it will get better later. The fact that not just shaders but also ROPs, cache, and memory controllers are being cut down in the Ti, and that the Ti will be made available to board partners, and that the HPC market had now already about a year of supply with GP102, indicates that supply of the Ti could be better than that of the Titan XP. But demand will be a magnitude higher too...
     
  2. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    Hmm, shader counts of 1080Ti and 1080 are 3584 : 2560 = 1.40, and boost clocks are 1582 MHz : 1733 MHz = 0.91. These are the boost clocks as specified by NVidia; somewhat careful tuning and good cooling should get both cards up to about 2000 MHz. But on the other hand, F@H may have a bit more difficulty to fully utilize the bigger card compared to the "smaller" one. Let's proceed with a factor of 1.40 * 0.91 = 1.28.

    You measured 730 k PPD with the GTX 1080 as an average over a week; I got 760...770 k PPD in two observations that lasted 5 or 7 days each.

    So: 1.28 * 730...770 k PPD = 930...990 k PPD. Not much. But there is this nonlinear quick-return bonus system at F@H, so the 1080Ti should do better than that after all. Any idea how much these bonuses effect the outcome?
     
  3. ZipSpeed

    ZipSpeed Golden Member

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    With Intel asking those ridiculous prices for their HEDT chips, I thought I would never be able to afford beyond 6C/12T. Ryzen totally shakes things up when it comes to finally being to upgrade my old DC rigs. I vote for a Ryzen rig!

    That said, I don't know if it's a good time to buy just yet. Personally, I would wait for the vendors to fix the BIOS bugs and tweak performance, and Microsoft to update Windows to better support Ryzen's SMT implementation. My wife is still on maternity leave so no fancy Ryzen rig this year for me.
     
  4. StitchExperimen

    StitchExperimen Senior member

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    If you go Ryzen the most bang for the buck is the 1700 because it comes with a Wraith heat sink and you don't have to spend $45 for a cooler and the wattage is 65 watts much lower. In gaming these things are running in many games ~100 fps which is more than you need and as work processors they beat the i7700x in multi threads.
     
  5. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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    Well, I guess this thread is not needed anymore. I already got the Ryzen system almost all purchased except the motherboard, and the 1080TI might be out tomorrow, and I will just use my Master Card ("master the possibilities") for it.

    The Build:
    1800x Ryzen
    ASRock Taichi X370 motherboard.
    16 gig 3200 CL14 Gskill memory.
    Corsair M500 PCI express SSD
    Corsair H100i 240 Extreme AIO cooling.
    Corsair AX860 PSU
    and most likely EVGA 1080TI FTW (maybe 2)
     
    #30 Markfw, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  6. petrusbroder

    petrusbroder Elite Member

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    Nice system!
     
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  7. crashtech

    crashtech Diamond Member

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    Why just get one when you can have both, I love it! :D
     
  8. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    I missed an option for this in the poll.

    Nice components; looking forward to hear what this build can do. Hopefully the motherboard supply issues get sorted out...

    The EVGA card seems still a way off, according to a OC UK forum post.
     
  9. Orange Kid

    Orange Kid Elite Member

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    Ya, I missed the get'em both option too! :)

    Nice system you will have there, congrats on the news of a new one in progress. :coffee::coffee::coffee: (no soda emoji)
    Feels like there should be a virtural new computer shower.:laughing:
     
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  10. Ken g6

    Ken g6 Programming Moderator, Elite Member
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    Alas, now we know that the 1700 is the same chip as the 1800x, with minimal overclocking differences. So you probably could have saved some money.
     
  11. crashtech

    crashtech Diamond Member

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    AMD can use the cash, lol.
     
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  12. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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    Well, I have to believe it will do it on lower volts or higher OC, some said that.
    Bummed on the 1080ti, I heard that it was getting released today, so... But I guess not.
     
    #37 Markfw, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  13. Orange Kid

    Orange Kid Elite Member

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    Just got an e-mail 1080ti, but they are all sold out or backordered already :(
     
  14. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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    Also the FE edition that I won't touch
     
  15. PCTC2

    PCTC2 Diamond Member

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    I would get both if I had the money...
     
  16. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    From what I have read so far, with some luck (how much luck? just a bit?) one may get a 1700 which can be overclocked to 1800X stock level or 1800X OC level. But Ryzen overclocking apparently means losing turbo (all cores are clocked at the chosen multiplier, all the time), and worse, you also lose automatic voltage regulation. (The chosen voltage is applied all the time when OC'd, whereas a stock 1700/ 1700X/ 1800X internally and automatically reduces voltage to the actually required level.)

    In short, a 1700 which is OC'd to 1800X stock level will apparently be a lot less energy efficient than a stock 1800X.
     
  17. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    There is a thread about it in the CPUs and Overclocking forum. A few boards with ECC support are mentioned further down in the thread, among them the Taichi.
     
  18. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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    And here are the parts:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. TennesseeTony

    TennesseeTony Elite Member

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  20. Orange Kid

    Orange Kid Elite Member

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    I'll second what Tony said :)
     
  21. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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  22. TennesseeTony

    TennesseeTony Elite Member

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    I just bought my "next hardware," an EVGA GTX1080 for $437! (on ebay, used, couple of months old.)

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    Hope you don't mind that I quote from the AMD RYZEN Builders Thread of the CPUs and Overclocking forum:

    The dips at the Xeon could for example be caused by BOINC's checkpointing, which it does every 60 seconds by default. (View -> Advanced View -> Options -> Computing Preferences -> at the bottom of the Computing tab.) Is this configured the same on the Ryzen?

    Maybe the NVME SSD of the Ryzen PC helps to avoid those dips.
     
  24. Markfw

    Markfw CPU Moderator VC&G Moderator Elite Member
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    Configuration is default on both boxes, except GPU disabled, and no screen saver.

    Yes, SSD could make a difference, but regular SDD to NVMe SSD makes that much difference ? odds against it I say.
     
  25. StefanR5R

    StefanR5R Member

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    OK, if the Xeon works off an SSD too I wouldn't expect noticeable differences either. However, while read latency of flash based SSDs is basically the same regardless of AHCI/SATA vs. NVME/PCIe, write latency of the latter tends to be lower. (And checkpointing should largely be a write latency thing, unless the Windows filesystem is doing something unexpected.) Also, empty vs. full SSD or new vs. well used SSD could be a factor.