Debate Thread

[Mani]

First up, foreign policy. Apparently requested first by BOTH campaigns, for different reasons. Even as an Obama supporter, I think McCain wins.

McCain has a more people-pleasing debate style that will work when he's in his comfort zone. I think he'll have more prepared applause lines, and will probably use his usual heavily recycled jokes to get a rise out of the audience. Obama's more nuanced style just doesn't work as well for debates in general and unless he is coached to be more to-the-point, he will probably not be as engaging. I'm hoping for a draw.

 

[IronWing]

I think the questions will be based on false assumptions, staying within the small box of understanding and issues that the press and politicians like to keep their discussions.

Edit: McCain will win through reciting the cliches that pass for knowledge on American television.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: ironwing
I think the questions will be based on false assumptions, staying within the small box of understanding and issues that the press and politicians like to keep their discussions.

Edit: McCain will win through reciting the cliches that pass for knowledge on American television.

Agreed. Because most foreign policy issues are never laid bare, it won't give Obama much maneuvering room. McCain can stick to the standard conventions and hammer home his rhetoric. Israel is a helpless puppy surrounded by ravenous wolves, Iran is about to unleash nuclear annihilation upon the world, the surge is the single greatest tactic ever devised by the mind of man, etc.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think which questions are asked and how they are asked will make all the difference.

For example:
If the first question about Iraq is whether we should or should not have gone to war it gives Obama a chance to bad talk the war with a litany of reasons why it was a mistake.

That would also force McCain to some how defend that mess.

If they then followed that question with one about the surge Obama can return to his first answer and try to totally avoid the fact that he was wrong on the surge.

However, if they ask the surge question first Obama is then in trouble because he has to defend a position that has been proven to be wrong.

 

[quest55720]

No matter what happens the MSM will declare Obama the winner. I think for the average person McCain should win because of his style. He give short answers to the point. Obama takes forever to get to the point if he ever does. The best example is at saddle back and the life question.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

However, if they ask the surge question first Obama is then in trouble because he has to defend a position that has been proven to be wrong.

Wouldn't the bribe be a better term for the new strategy than the surge? After all, we simply started paying folks to stop shooting at our troops. For our troops sake, I hope we have enough money left over after paying off Paulson's buddies to keep paying tribute to the Iraqi militias until we can get our folks out of there.

 

[jpeyton]

My friends...maybe 100 years...Islamic jihadists...September 11th...war in Iraq...surge...like an Indiana market in summertime...weapons of mass destruction...destroy evil...the end.

 

[ProfJohn]

Imagine Rudy at the debates:

Q: Georgia
Rudy: Well I was mayor on 9-11 and it was like we were invaded...

Q Israeli-Palestinian
Rudy: My city was attacked by terrorists on 9-11

Q Somalian Pirates
Rudy: On 9-11 some planes were pirated

Q Chinese Olympics
Rudy: When I saw the torch being lit I was reminded of the towers burning on 9-11

Q International space station
Rudy: You know the fires from 9-11 were so bad you could see them from space?

 

[HomerJS]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think which questions are asked and how they are asked will make all the difference.

For example:
If the first question about Iraq is whether we should or should not have gone to war it gives Obama a chance to bad talk the war with a litany of reasons why it was a mistake.

That would also force McCain to some how defend that mess.

If they then followed that question with one about the surge Obama can return to his first answer and try to totally avoid the fact that he was wrong on the surge.

However, if they ask the surge question first Obama is then in trouble because he has to defend a position that has been proven to be wrong.

The war happened first so it's logical to ask it first. I would ask knowing what we know now would you still go to war with Iraq. He'll try to say we already debated that and we have to win. Answer to that is people need to know if you are capable of learning from the past.

 

[ProfJohn]

Homer, you could also say that the surge was the most recent major decision on the war and therefore the most relevant.
Also, the fact that Obama was not in the Senate at the start of the war makes the question about going to war less meaningful.

Also note that nearly every Democrat who ran for the Presidency in 2004 or 2008 and was in office at the time voted FOR the war. Kerry, Clinton, Biden, Gephart, Edwards, Lieberman, and Dodd.
Bob Graham of Fl and Kucinich were the only two who didn't vote for it.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's going to be very hard for Obama to "win" a foreign policy debate since Obama's position is by nature more nuanced than McCain.

 

[nageov3t]

Ron Paul will probably win.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
My friends...maybe 100 years...Islamic jihadists...September 11th...war in Iraq...surge...like an Indiana market in summertime...weapons of mass destruction...destroy evil...the end.

The one thing about the "debates" (moderated joint press conferences) I am sure of is that Senator McCain will say "my friends" at least twice per answer (on average).

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think which questions are asked and how they are asked will make all the difference.

For example:
If the first question about Iraq is whether we should or should not have gone to war it gives Obama a chance to bad talk the war with a litany of reasons why it was a mistake.

That would also force McCain to some how defend that mess.

If they then followed that question with one about the surge Obama can return to his first answer and try to totally avoid the fact that he was wrong on the surge.

However, if they ask the surge question first Obama is then in trouble because he has to defend a position that has been proven to be wrong.

Agreed.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Imagine Rudy at the debates:

Q: Georgia
Rudy: Well I was mayor on 9-11 and it was like we were invaded...

Q Israeli-Palestinian
Rudy: My city was attacked by terrorists on 9-11

Q Somalian Pirates
Rudy: On 9-11 some planes were pirated

Q Chinese Olympics
Rudy: When I saw the torch being lit I was reminded of the towers burning on 9-11

Q International space station
Rudy: You know the fires from 9-11 were so bad you could see them from space?

:laugh:

 

[Moonbeam]

I predict the debates will go almost exactly like the preconceived notions each viewer holds beforehand for that particular viewer.

 

[StageLeft]

McCain only "wins" or "draws" if either a) Obama is on crack at the time or b) the people watching are total fvcktards. I'm leaning to b). Remember, many thought that Bush beat Kerry in one of his debates, a true digging the ditches of intellectual indecency to even joke of such a thing. In these cases, McCain's intellect is slower and his positions are demonstrably inferior in the majority of examples. It is correct to think he'll have some one-liners ready to attract the crowd and follow them up with the McTeeth, though. What a damned circus. I wish Nov 4 would be here and done already.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I predict the debates will go almost exactly like the preconceived notions each viewer holds beforehand for that particular viewer.

This. Thread. QFT.

 

[Craig234]

I think the surge is the biggest danger for Obama, because it plays into other attack themes - that McCain looks like the leader who did not throw in the towel, and the surge can serve as a surrogate for the war, allowing people who don't want to admit they were wrong to agree with McCain.

Unfortunately, democrats have a hard time because so many Americans fall for the militaristic/scare garbage. 'They're out to get you, see the democrat disagrees'.

Americans aren't well prepared for a more honest discussion of foreign policy issues, leaving democrats to try to play the game not as much suited to them.

Obama has plenty of ammo though. And McCain doesn't really have any good story if Obama points out his flip flopping and nonsensical pandering.

 

[dennilfloss]

McCain will use his chipmunk style to some effect but Obama's 72 Fists O' Debating will leave him stunned and grasping at straws rather quickly.

 

[HomerJS]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Homer, you could also say that the surge was the most recent major decision on the war and therefore the most relevant.
Also, the fact that Obama was not in the Senate at the start of the war makes the question about going to war less meaningful.

Also note that nearly every Democrat who ran for the Presidency in 2004 or 2008 and was in office at the time voted FOR the war. Kerry, Clinton, Biden, Gephart, Edwards, Lieberman, and Dodd.
Bob Graham of Fl and Kucinich were the only two who didn't vote for it.

No the most relavant is why we went to war in the beginning. All the other democrats who ran for P admitted going in was a mistake. Again my question is can we learn from history. I believe McCains position is knowing what we know now he would do it again.