Debate in Texas could lead to national reform over higher education

[Wreckem]

Isn't it Texas and some other southern states that implemented legislation to include creationism and biblical teachings in the classroom? Seems I recall reading that somewhere.

You are thinking Louisiana and Tennessee, not Texas.

 

[(sic)Klown12]

You are thinking Louisiana and Tennessee, not Texas.

There are some members of the Board of Education that pushed for Intelligent Design to be taught. So far it's failed, but I don't see them stopping as Texas Republicans seem hell bent on pushing political ideology into the classroom.

 

[Wreckem]

There are some members of the Board of Education that pushed for Intelligent Design to be taught. So far it's failed, but I don't see them stopping as Texas Republicans seem hell bent on pushing political ideology into the classroom.

The far right Republicans in Texas try to do a lot of shit. The more moderate Republicans keep them from actually doing it.

 

[Babbles]

The funny thing is, outside of the top tier Universities like say UT and those others mentioned, Professors make crap for the level of education they have. Then you also have the problem of schools relying on adjuncts instead of full time professors.

My wife is a professor - well not this year due to baby-time - in the humanities, and man she don't get paid crap. She taught at a large, highly ranked flagship state (or 'state related') institution and between massive freshman core classes and teaching upper level classes across several majors she worked an easy 60 hours a week, spent ~14 years total in college all for . . . crap money.

She absolutely loves what she does, but still when looking at the time spent getting degrees, publishing, and all of that jazz it hurts to look at the paycheck.

 

[Engineer]

The way you read it is correct. The plan is for $10k TOTAL for all four years. This $10k total includes tuition, fees, and books.
.

Books too? OMG!!! My daughter's books - a junior in accounting in a mid sized state university here in KY - were over $1,300 next semester. Many of the books couldn't be bought used because they have a required software package (internet login to some website for additional resources) that couldn't be bought separately. I'm still in 'sticker' shock.

 

[Genx87]

LOL thats why any company will hire a foreigner from IIT or some eastern block county in a second over our diploma mills.

You cant be serious.

http://business.time.com/2013/11/10/the-real-reason-new-college-grads-cant-get-hired/
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-01-19-college-tasks_x.htm

I know most of you are US college grads so will defend it until end of time but fact is they are terrible and corrupted like any other govt industry. They come here because of patronage and legacy hiring not superior education.

Oh please you think thousands of foreign students comes here because of patronage and legacy? They come here because of our higher education and the opportunities that come with it.

Besides. Foreign enrollment is crashing realizing they won't get what they paid for so you're premise is wrong anyway.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/26/w...-education-is-losing-its-attraction.html?_r=0

So after years of increases by South Koreans, some are deciding the costs don't out weigh the benefits? Ok????

Go look at any list of the worlds top universities and the United States will dominate it. If we choose to go the path of our K-12 public system. Then the race to the bottom will hurt our economy.

 

[Genx87]

I think you hit on the problem - they HAVE to spend time teaching remedial and what they should have learned in HS and not teaching higher ed because time is limited.

Of course they do because our K-12 system turned into a race to the bottom decades ago. Much like what some want to do for our higher education system in this article.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Public research universities, with a mission of both teaching and research, are the "backbone of the nation's knowledge economy," said James Duderstadt, the former University of Michigan president who helped lead a recent National Research Council study of the sector.

They produce 70 percent of scientists, engineers and physicians, and two-thirds of U.S. campus research — the value of which isn't always apparent in advance.

We definitely need less of those.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Wow, what exactly is a $10,000 degree worth on the job market? And what kind of teacher quality do you get with that?

To be fair, what kind of teacher quality do you receive with a $100K degree? Yeah, you might be taught by prestigious researchers (in huge lecture halls, that is) but 1) much of the time, they're awful instructors and don't care about teaching at all -- they just care about research 2) in your smaller recitation classes, you're often stuck with TAs, grad students, or new guys trying desperately to gain tenure, meaning they don't care too much about teaching either.

As an example, I had multiple instructors who received their PhDs from MIT and they were obviously tenured. None of them were great teachers despite the fact that they were predominantly American (so no language barriers) and they were older and had decades of experience. On the other hand, the best professor I had in EE was actually a Lecturer (not even an assistant professor) and had her PhD in Physics rather than EE. In grad school, my advisor was actually a pretty good instructor but otherwise, it was a wasteland.

 

[fskimospy]

To be fair, what kind of teacher quality do you receive with a $100K degree? Yeah, you might be taught by prestigious researchers (in huge lecture halls, that is) but 1) much of the time, they're awful instructors and don't care about teaching at all -- they just care about research 2) in your smaller recitation classes, you're often stuck with TAs, grad students, or new guys trying desperately to gain tenure, meaning they don't care too much about teaching either.

As an example, I had multiple instructors who received their PhDs from MIT and they were obviously tenured. None of them were great teachers despite the fact that they were predominantly American (so no language barriers) and they were older and had decades of experience. On the other hand, the best professor I had in EE was actually a Lecturer (not even an assistant professor) and had her PhD in Physics rather than EE.

The academic literature that I am aware of shows no correlation between the selectivity of a university and the effectiveness of the teachers or school leaders that come out of it. I've never seen a comparison based on tuition prices, but I strongly suspect the conclusion would be the same.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The academic literature that I am aware of shows no correlation between the selectivity of a university and the effectiveness of the teachers or school leaders that come out of it. I've never seen a comparison based on tuition prices, but I strongly suspect the conclusion would be the same.

I'm not surprised at all and agree.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Books too? OMG!!! My daughter's books - a junior in accounting in a mid sized state university here in KY - were over $1,300 next semester. Many of the books couldn't be bought used because they have a required software package (internet login to some website for additional resources) that couldn't be bought separately. I'm still in 'sticker' shock.

I remember paying $100 for a EE book in the early 90s and almost having a heart attack. I'll never forget paying $53 for a paperback book that was, at most, 1/4" thick in grad school. I'll be honest -- I photocopied the damn thing for $5 and returned it. When I returned it, the bookstore actually thought I had switched price tags with a more expensive book because they couldn't believe they'd charge so much for such a flimsy book.

As it turns out, even that $5 was a waste -- the book was never used in the course. I'd hate to see book prices now.

Typical TX idiocy. Focus on schools cutting intellectual things while not actually attacking the problem. You want more state influence on expenses? Fund the school to where you were funding it, cut pensions at the state union level, and force accountability for the school's budget at the state level.

Done.

This.

 

[MetalMat]

Isn't it Texas and some other southern states that implemented legislation to include creationism and biblical teachings in the classroom? Seems I recall reading that somewhere.

Louisiana has the Science Education Act which is essentially just a way to sneak creationism into public schools. It's sad

Back in middle school when I was in Louisiana we were taught about creationism but in the context of how was the old way of thinking before the scientific method.

 

[Exterous]

LOL thats why any company will hire a foreigner from IIT or some eastern block county in a second over our diploma mills.

I will grant you that we have quite a few diploma mills around the country (esp the for-profit schools) but the top research universities usually have a large number of programs that are very selective and very difficult so I don't think its fair to include them in this category