Death penalty recommended for Calif. arsonist

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
Intent shouldn't matter in the case of Murder.

Why not? Our legal system has the opinion that it should matter at its core.

It's a long-debated question on 'the theory of justice' which by its nature cannot leave the realm of opinion (though some might break rules of logic); on the one hand you can 'only' care about intent so that the following are all equaly guilty: a guy who commits pre-meditated murder; a guy who sets out to commit one but is prevented (say, hiw car breaks down on the way); or a guy who shoots the body of someone who was already killed minutes before but they don't know it.

Or, you can base it only on result, so that the following are equally guilty: a guy who commits pre-meditated murder, a guy who stumbles across his wife in bed with a man and shoots them both in a moment of rage, a contracter found any degree negligent in an incident where someone is killed (say, accidentally not hooking up a rope correctly, or the manufacturer negligently not catching a defect in the rope), any doctor's error that contributes to someone getting killed, a guy who shoots his gun into the air on the 4th of july, and even the guy who opens his front door and sets off a trap he didn't know was there, that pulls a string that sets of a bomb that blows somoene up - remember, intent doesn't matter, so it's irrlevant that he had no intent to kill anyone by opening his front door. His action killed someone, and that's all that matters.

Now, if you are sane, you might find some concerns with either of those extremes, and reject the other poster's position as you start to find our current system makes sense.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
If you are a drunk driver and kill someone are you a murder?

If you are speeding and kill someone are you a murder??

If you are talking on the cell phone while driving and kill someone are you a murder??

Where do you stop?

Show me that his goal was to kill people, or that there was a reasonable expectation that someone might die via the fire THEN I might agree with you. But so far all I see is a guy who started a fire that killed some one.

Felony-murder. Look it up.

There is a book trilogy called Prince of Nothing. If he named it after you, it would be Prof of nothing.

 

[CitizenKain]

If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

I'd like to see what tune you would be singing if someone gunned down your wife/child or other loved one right in front of you and had no remorse about doing so.

Yup, you'd rather have your tax dollars spent on making sure they get fed 3 square meals a day, with a roof over their heads, getting any medical attention they need instead of using this tax money to benefit the productive members of society.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

I'd like to see what tune you would be singing if someone gunned down your wife/child or other loved one right in front of you and had no remorse about doing so.

Yup, you'd rather have your tax dollars spent on making sure they get fed 3 square meals a day, with a roof over their heads, getting any medical attention they need instead of using this tax money to benefit the productive members of society.

What does that have to do with the death penalty? I personally don't support the death penalty either, but I also think prisoners should have to work in some capacity to help defray the cost of their confinement. Let them pick up trash along the road (if they're not violent and suitable for outside-the-wire labor) or perform other tasks which can be accomplished within the prison. If the common person has to work to provide for one's own food/shelter/clothing, so should prisoners.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Craig234
So, the substance of his comment is nt trollish at all, indeed your indifference to the lifes and deaths of members of a group you are presumably not a member of is more trollish.

Given that felony murder has been around for hundreds of years going back into british law and its remnants in our legal system have nothing to do at the judicial or legislative level with intent to murder black defendants, then yes, it was entirely trollish. Felony murder is not the reason blacks are more likely to get the death penalty than whites. In fact, I believe only 8 states even allow capital punishment for felony murder convictions.

My comments about those whites who ultimately are happy to 'be against' the injustice while being indifferent and ignore it, were aimed at them, not you personally.

So, I'm suspecting you thought I was saying some things about you more than I was.

Now, if you care to retract the tone of your response, great.

"your indifference to the lifes [sic] and deaths" In the body of your post you did refer to whites who don't have any interest in the issue beyond some vague expression of sympathy. However, your final statement was unambiguously directed to me and my alleged indifference. If I thought you were saying things about me more than you were, perhaps you shouldn't have said things about me.

However, since you've attempted to clarify in your second post what you were attempting to say, rather than what you actually said, I'll accept your amendment and withdraw my request that you perform certain acts upon yourself.

Back on point, not many can legitimately dispute the inequitable treatment our justice system meets out, the numbers are indisputable. But overall, felony murder plays a minute part in that system, and its abolishment would advance equality to an infinitesimal degree. Regardless, his post was trollish in nature and tone, and in-line with his previous posts.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

I'd like to see what tune you would be singing if someone gunned down your wife/child or other loved one right in front of you and had no remorse about doing so.

Yup, you'd rather have your tax dollars spent on making sure they get fed 3 square meals a day, with a roof over their heads, getting any medical attention they need instead of using this tax money to benefit the productive members of society.

What does that have to do with the death penalty? I personally don't support the death penalty either, but I also think prisoners should have to work in some capacity to help defray the cost of their confinement. Let them pick up trash along the road (if they're not violent and suitable for outside-the-wire labor) or perform other tasks which can be accomplished within the prison. If the common person has to work to provide for one's own food/shelter/clothing, so should prisoners.

Are you that clueless that you can't put 2 and 2 together?

If you are not in favor of the death penalty, the only other option for a convicted murderer would be in life in prison. Guess who pays for their food and every other cost associated with keeping them locked up, mr. tax payer...

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

I'd like to see what tune you would be singing if someone gunned down your wife/child or other loved one right in front of you and had no remorse about doing so.

Yup, you'd rather have your tax dollars spent on making sure they get fed 3 square meals a day, with a roof over their heads, getting any medical attention they need instead of using this tax money to benefit the productive members of society.

What does that have to do with the death penalty? I personally don't support the death penalty either, but I also think prisoners should have to work in some capacity to help defray the cost of their confinement. Let them pick up trash along the road (if they're not violent and suitable for outside-the-wire labor) or perform other tasks which can be accomplished within the prison. If the common person has to work to provide for one's own food/shelter/clothing, so should prisoners.

Are you that clueless that you can't put 2 and 2 together?

If you are not in favor of the death penalty, the only other option for a convicted murderer would be in life in prison. Guess who pays for their food and every other cost associated with keeping them locked up, mr. tax payer...

Yes, that is the cost to society. Or there is killing everyone you consider worthless.

 

[aphex]

Depraved indifference to life.

Give him the chair.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If you support the death penalty, you are a worthless person and should probably kill yourself.

I'd like to see what tune you would be singing if someone gunned down your wife/child or other loved one right in front of you and had no remorse about doing so.

Yup, you'd rather have your tax dollars spent on making sure they get fed 3 square meals a day, with a roof over their heads, getting any medical attention they need instead of using this tax money to benefit the productive members of society.

What does that have to do with the death penalty? I personally don't support the death penalty either, but I also think prisoners should have to work in some capacity to help defray the cost of their confinement. Let them pick up trash along the road (if they're not violent and suitable for outside-the-wire labor) or perform other tasks which can be accomplished within the prison. If the common person has to work to provide for one's own food/shelter/clothing, so should prisoners.

Are you that clueless that you can't put 2 and 2 together?

If you are not in favor of the death penalty, the only other option for a convicted murderer would be in life in prison. Guess who pays for their food and every other cost associated with keeping them locked up, mr. tax payer...

Yes, that is the cost to society. Or there is killing everyone you consider worthless.

Looks like you missed the part about the jury that CONVICTED him...guess they thought his life was pretty worthless as well...

 

[redgtxdi]

Death penalty, no question!


Only problem is that it won't be soon enough.

 

[Nitemare]

Fry that fucker...literally

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

If you are not in favor of the death penalty, the only other option for a convicted murderer would be in life in prison. Guess who pays for their food and every other cost associated with keeping them locked up, mr. tax payer...

It's pretty pathetic if that's your only concern, but if so, maybe you'd change your mind if you thought that, at least some authorities say the death penalty is more expensive than life without parole.

6.) Capital Punishment Costs More Than Life in Prison Without Parole

• DPIC: Costs of the Death Penalty
  
  DPIC Special Report: "Millions Misspent: What Politicians Don't Say About the High Costs of the Death Penalty"
  • North Carolina spends $2.16 million per execution more than the costs of a non-death penalty murder case.
    
  • Florida has spent around $57 million on the death penalty for just 18 executions. This averages to about $3.2 million per execution.
    
  • In Texas, the death penalty costs an average of $2.3 million per execution, three times more expensive than imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years.
    
  • The State of Ohio spent $1.5 million to execute a mentally retarded man who wanted to be executed.
    
  • California spends $90 million annually on the death penalty over the costs of their regular system. $78 million of that money is spent at the trial level, proving that the death penalty costs come almost completely from the trial level. Not the appeals process, like everyone thinks it does.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: spacejamz

If you are not in favor of the death penalty, the only other option for a convicted murderer would be in life in prison. Guess who pays for their food and every other cost associated with keeping them locked up, mr. tax payer...

It's pretty pathetic if that's your only concern, but if so, maybe you'd change your mind if you thought that, at least some authorities say https://www.msu.edu/~millettf/DeathPenalty/6.html">the death penalty is more expensive than life without parole</a>.

6.) Capital Punishment Costs More Than Life in Prison Without Parole

• DPIC: Costs of the Death Penalty
  
  DPIC Special Report: "Millions Misspent: What Politicians Don't Say About the High Costs of the Death Penalty"
  • North Carolina spends $2.16 million per execution more than the costs of a non-death penalty murder case.
    
  • Florida has spent around $57 million on the death penalty for just 18 executions. This averages to about $3.2 million per execution.
    
  • In Texas, the death penalty costs an average of $2.3 million per execution, three times more expensive than imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years.
    
  • The State of Ohio spent $1.5 million to execute a mentally retarded man who wanted to be executed.
    
  • California spends $90 million annually on the death penalty over the costs of their regular system. $78 million of that money is spent at the trial level, proving that the death penalty costs come almost completely from the trial level. Not the appeals process, like everyone thinks it does.

How in the hell are the numbers that high for killing someone? 2.16 million per execution? I don't see how the procedure could even surpass $5000. Just line them all up at a firing range....the cost for that would easily be under $1000.

Also, LOL @ you death row sympathizers. People who murder or commit heinous crimes do not deserve to live on our planet.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

How in the hell are the numbers that high for killing someone? 2.16 million per execution? I don't see how the procedure could even surpass $5000. Just line them all up at a firing range....the cost for that would easily be under $1000.

Also, LOL @ you death row sympathizers. People who murder or commit heinous crimes do not deserve to live on our planet.

That figure also includes the cost of the trial, which is more expensive, special unit to house those on death row(states refuses to put them in the general population, which is cheaper), appeals, and some other expenses I can't think of at the moment. I always thought that the death penalty was an easy way out. if it was me, I'd rather have that than spend the rest of my days behind bars with no chance of ever being free again.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
Also, LOL @ you death row sympathizers. People who murder or commit heinous crimes do not deserve to live on our planet.

look kids, a strawman, wave!