Dear Bill Maher, stop making atheists look bad

[dawheat]

Umm, yes! Does this even need consideration?

Sure it does - lots of folks seem to think the worst of him by default. Obviously I don't know the guy, but everything I've heard and read makes him a good kid with a big heart and a great work ethic.

I guess I do give the benefit of the doubt as my default unless there's some pattern or past behavior that would cause me to question his motives. Dropping to one knee for a couple seconds and then bouncing up doesn't jump immediately in my mind as showboating.

And when it comes to it, I'd say about every wide receiver and running back out there makes Tim look like an introvert.

 

[child of wonder]

Sure it does - lots of folks seem to think the worst of him by default. Obviously I don't know the guy, but everything I've heard and read makes him a good kid with a big heart and a great work ethic.

I guess I do give the benefit of the doubt as my default unless there's some pattern or past behavior that would cause me to question his motives. Dropping to one knee for a couple seconds and then bouncing up doesn't jump immediately in my mind as showboating.

And when it comes to it, I'd say about every wide receiver and running back out there makes Tim look like an introvert.

If there is a god and he wants the Denver Broncos to win football games, then he's a pretty goofy and petty god and Tebow is right in praying.

If there is a god and he doesn't care if the Denver Broncos win football games, then Tim Tebow is wasting his time and is a fool.

If there is no god, then Tim Tebow is wasting his time and is a fool.

Since I assume you're Christian, do you think that god cares about the outcome of football games? If not, then we're left with the latter two suppositions and, in either case, Tebow is showboating. You cannot possibly believe that his prayers during games are not intended to draw attention to himself and his religion.

If he'd truly like a moment of reflection to thank god, I would hope he is aware that if the Christian god truly exists he is not wearing a Denver Broncos jersey and bringing such attention to his faith on national TV can only be perceived as showboating.

 

[cybrsage]

Simply incredible how some who claim to follow Jesus do nothing but ignore his teachings.

Jesus said the hypocrites are those who pray in public "to be seen."

Tebow is obviously aware millions of eyes are pointed his way and chooses to pray "to be seen." This is CLEARLY what Jesus preached against.

It amazes me as I debate with Christians either how poorly they understand their own god and religion or how they so blatantly disregard the parts of their religion they don't care for.

Actually, it was the praise they received for being seen that was the problem...they prayed loudly in public so people would say "see how holy they are". Is Lebow doing that? I have no idea.

Look at Daniel as an example of someone who had great faith in God and God made him a prophet because of it. Daniel was arrested for praying by his open window after a decree by King Darius making it illegal to pray to anyone but him. When thrown to the Lions for it, God ensured the lions did him no harm.

Public showing of faith is not forbidden by God, and therefor not forbidden by Jesus.

 

[sandorski]

Sure it does - lots of folks seem to think the worst of him by default. Obviously I don't know the guy, but everything I've heard and read makes him a good kid with a big heart and a great work ethic.

I guess I do give the benefit of the doubt as my default unless there's some pattern or past behavior that would cause me to question his motives. Dropping to one knee for a couple seconds and then bouncing up doesn't jump immediately in my mind as showboating.

And when it comes to it, I'd say about every wide receiver and running back out there makes Tim look like an introvert.

People have been seeking attention for TDs from the beginning. Tebow just has a slightly different schtick is all. I don't care that he does it, but playing dumb as to his motives is rather silly.

 

[shadow9d9]

Well, ever since Jesus started walking around with a shotgun, shooting non-believers in the face,... it's been kind of hard for Him to recruit new followers.

I mean, He doesn't even ask them if they will convert! He asks; "Do you believe in me?" When they say no, he just ices them.

You know, I always thought the Christians and their "Attack on Christmas" hysteria was over the top. But, threads like this, especially over something so insignificant as a prayer, with what you do with your body and your life, clearly shows that atheists can be just as big of spine less twits than anyone else.

"Atheists" share nothing more in common than people who don't believe in unicorns do. You can try to link them together all you want, but it won't stick.

 

[senseamp]

Your point? My problems with Atheism are not it's core tenants, which I can at least agree to disagree with, but its dogmatic implementation of them. Atheism tends to attack religion in a political sense, and Atheists generally see themselves as the superior breed of human belief. What does that sound like? RELIGION!

When I google "Atheist" the first result is this: http://www.atheists.org/

Bunch of morons trying to get "Darwin day" passed among other things. The same people who have issues with "God" being on our money and in the pledge of allegiance. Stuff most people don't care about, regardless of their faith or lack thereof. What does that sound like? RADICAL RELIGION!

Atheism is little more than the chosen religion of people who choose not to believe in a Deity. Sure it may be different in it's tenants and beliefs, but it's a religion nonetheless IMO.

Don't get me wrong I'm as secular as they come, and I'm happy to engage anyone willing in a religious/philosophical debate, but I don't attack people for their religion, nor do I look down upon them. Nor does my lack of belief in a mainstream religion make me politically bias against their followers. I do not give two shits about "Darwin day" and would not celebrate it if it passed, I said "under God" every day in school with no effect on my faith, and I have better things to do with my time than read my money and throw a bitch fit.

The problem with your logic is that you judge atheists by people who see it as their identity and run websites and groups about it. That is what's known as a selection bias.
Most actual atheists simply don't believe in god(s), but they don't actively think of themselves as atheists or feel a particular need to talk to anyone about it. Notice also, that "Under God" was inserted into the pledge during the Cold War as an attack on atheism. Atheists didn't try to insert "Under No God" into the pledge.

 

[Ausm]

Your point? My problems with Atheism are not it's core tenants, which I can at least agree to disagree with, but its dogmatic implementation of them. Atheism tends to attack religion in a political sense, and Atheists generally see themselves as the superior breed of human belief. What does that sound like? RELIGION!

When I google "Atheist" the first result is this: http://www.atheists.org/

Bunch of morons trying to get "Darwin day" passed among other things. The same people who have issues with "God" being on our money and in the pledge of allegiance. Stuff most people don't care about, regardless of their faith or lack thereof. What does that sound like? RADICAL RELIGION!

Atheism is little more than the chosen religion of people who choose not to believe in a Deity. Sure it may be different in it's tenants and beliefs, but it's a religion nonetheless IMO.

Don't get me wrong I'm as secular as they come, and I'm happy to engage anyone willing in a religious/philosophical debate, but I don't attack people for their religion, nor do I look down upon them. Nor does my lack of belief in a mainstream religion make me politically bias against their followers. I do not give two shits about "Darwin day" and would not celebrate it if it passed, I said "under God" every day in school with no effect on my faith, and I have better things to do with my time than read my money and throw a bitch fit.

I reject your Religion and replace it with reality.

 

[cybrsage]

The problem with your logic is that you judge atheists by people who see it as their identity and run websites and groups about it. That is what's known as a selection bias.
Most actual atheists simply don't believe in god(s), but they don't actively think of themselves as atheists or feel a particular need to talk to anyone about it. Notice also, that "Under God" was inserted into the pledge during the Cold War as an attack on atheism. Atheists didn't try to insert "Under No God" into the pledge.

But in the same way, atheists view Christians as those who want to force everyone to believe, etc. The same type of selection bias exists.

I think selection bias is simply a natural human trait and is unavoidable when talking about anything larger than a handful of people.

 

[Steeplerot]

Maher one day will slip up and make a total ass of himself. He was a libertarian one year, now he is some progressive bourgeoisie. He is sexist, and made some really creepy comments about kids and stuff. Be careful who you hitch your wagon to. Maybe he is changing but it seems to me this is all calculated. He really tries to hard, that always makes me question motives/core beliefs.


He is funny at times but kinda forced.
Just call this a hunch.

 

[senseamp]

But in the same way, atheists view Christians as those who want to force everyone to believe, etc. The same type of selection bias exists.

I think selection bias is simply a natural human trait and is unavoidable when talking about anything larger than a handful of people.

Atheists don't view Christians as those who want to "force" everyone to believe, but evangelizing and spreading the gospel is part of many Christian traditions. It's not part of being an atheist, being an atheist only means you don't believe in a god. It doesn't say others are any worse off then you or need saving if they aren't atheists. My GF is a Christian, and I have no interest in converting her to atheism, it has no bearing on me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Simply incredible how some who claim to follow Jesus do nothing but ignore his teachings.

Jesus said the hypocrites are those who pray in public "to be seen."

Tebow is obviously aware millions of eyes are pointed his way and chooses to pray "to be seen." This is CLEARLY what Jesus preached against.

It amazes me as I debate with Christians either how poorly they understand their own god and religion or how they so blatantly disregard the parts of their religion they don't care for.

Oh One Wheeled Tricycle you are back in glorious style. The context of what you quote was that the religious leadership prayed in public for the purpose of showing how devout they were, not thanks or sincere petitions. It was show.

"The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." Note that the tax collector was also praying in public and that was not a problem.

Jesus made a very public prayer when resurrecting Lazarus for the benefit of others witnessing the event. Doesn't get a whole more in you face than that.

You hate Christians and many of us understand that, but One Wheel, don't display it so ignorantly.

 

[LumbergTech]

Oh One Wheeled Tricycle you are back in glorious style. The context of what you quote was that the religious leadership prayed in public for the purpose of showing how devout they were, not thanks or sincere petitions. It was show.

"The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." Note that the tax collector was also praying in public and that was not a problem.

Jesus made a very public prayer when resurrecting Lazarus for the benefit of others witnessing the event. Doesn't get a whole more in you face than that.

You hate Christians and many of us understand that, but One Wheel, don't display it so ignorantly.

you are the ignorant one..you just owned yourself......Tebow is using prayer in the negative way that you JUST REFERRED TO. ..falce palm and a half

 

[child of wonder]

Oh One Wheeled Tricycle you are back in glorious style. The context of what you quote was that the religious leadership prayed in public for the purpose of showing how devout they were, not thanks or sincere petitions. It was show.

"The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector." Note that the tax collector was also praying in public and that was not a problem.

Jesus made a very public prayer when resurrecting Lazarus for the benefit of others witnessing the event. Doesn't get a whole more in you face than that.

You hate Christians and many of us understand that, but One Wheel, don't display it so ignorantly.

LumbergTech beat me to it and he's correct. Tebow is showboating his religion.

Now, I know your immediate response will be "nuh uh!" followed by more innuendo, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus said "when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

He doesn't say "pray in public when it suits your purposes or if you're sincere." He says "pray in secret because god knows what is in your heart. You needn't flaunt it about."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

LumbergTech beat me to it and he's correct. Tebow is showboating his religion.

Now, I know your immediate response will be "nuh uh!" followed by more innuendo, but it doesn't change the fact that Jesus said "when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

He doesn't say "pray in public when it suits your purposes or if you're sincere." He says "pray in secret because god knows what is in your heart. You needn't flaunt it about."

It is your simplistic and broken reasoning skills which earned you the name by which I call you such occasions. Like those annoying religious single verse quoters you seize on a thing without any knowledge or context. Think not? Explain away Lazarus.

 

[spittledip]

I don't know Tebow or much about him except for this recent kneeling thing he has been doing as I don't follow pro sports or any spectator sports for that matter. At any rate, I cannot judge him nor can anyone else b/c we do not know what his motives are. We can guess at his motives, but the problem with guessing at motives is that it tends to reveal the heart of the guesser more than the heart of Tebow himself.

 

[child of wonder]

It is your simplistic and broken reasoning skills which earned you the name by which I call you such occasions. Like those annoying religious single verse quoters you seize on a thing without any knowledge or context. Think not? Explain away Lazarus.

lol

You are so amusing. When I read your posts I picture a constipated old man.

"There is simply no way I can be wrong about anything in any fashion, therefore anything you say is wrong and stupid! Hrumpf!"

Anyway, you did nothing to address what I said. Just spewed nonsense. I'm quite aware of the context of the passage I quoted. Please point out for me and everyone else reading how Jesus' words in Matthew are only meant to address religious leaders.

You mentioned Luke 18:10-11 earlier which does nothing to address my point. It's a parable about a Pharisee praying boastfully and a tax collector praying with humility. The Pharisee, like you, is proud and arrogant. He looks down on people, like the tax collector, and believes himself to be righteous so he has no qualms about tooting his own horn.

Funny how you left out Luke 18:14 which says "I tell you that this man(tax collector), rather than the other(Pharisee), went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Tebow, by making it a special point to bring his faith and beliefs front and center in his public life, is exalting himself and praying "to be seen" which is exactly what Jesus preached against.

 

[Onceler]

Even Tebow's own savior says that those who pray in public and showboat in such a manner are hypocrites and will receive their just reward.

This is the succulent hypocrisy that envelops and drips from mainstream American Christianity like thick molasses.

Exactly.
"Don't cast your pearls before swine."

 

[blankslate]

Well, it is freedom of speech.... As long as he doesn't go around physically interfering with people praying and just verbally mocks them well so effing what? You can call him a dick for mocking religious people all you like as well. People with their effing thin skins.

As far as Tim Tebow is concerned...

well this skit just illustrates everything about the "controversy" about him that you need to know. Some good insights amongst the jokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ6vat1DIRI


Someone mentioned that his friend chooses to pray at restaurants by bowing his head and praying to himself.
Seriously?!? is that supposed to be some fantastic argument?
Is he being extremely showy about it by yelling to other people in the restaurant "And now I will PRAY!!! Watch me Pray NoW!!!!"?
Or by jumping to someone's table and scolding them for not praying?
Does he pray at a yelling volume? Does he jump on top of the table and assume a Tim Tebow praying pose? (although that would be kind of amusing and chuckleworthy) No?
Then guess what? No one cares that he's praying.

 

[Onceler]

as long as they keep it to themselves it is ok.
The moment they try to get publicity for themselves then they are serving their own interests before God.
I use to have a problem with Catholics,"Bloody Catholics filling the bloody world up with bloody children they can't bloody feed."
I'm "protestent and firecly proud of it".

 

[JEDIYoda]

Atheists don't view Christians as those who want to "force" everyone to believe, but evangelizing and spreading the gospel is part of many Christian traditions. It's not part of being an atheist, being an atheist only means you don't believe in a god. It doesn't say others are any worse off then you or need saving if they aren't atheists. My GF is a Christian, and I have no interest in converting her to atheism, it has no bearing on me.

Thats not true at all!! Most Atheist are just as forceful and pushy as Christians!!
Only they push down everybody throats that they are an Atheist...no difference at all!!

 

[dmcowen674]

Bill Maher's career is based on attacking people

Which profile is his in here?

 

[blankslate]

Thats not true at all!! Most Atheist are just as forceful and pushy as Christians!!
Only they push down everybody throats that they are an Atheist...no difference at all!!

Too bad that it's rather true of famous atheists. I think ones who aren't famous tend to be quiet about it. I'm agnostic myself since the evidence just isn't there to make a definitive statement either way.... I don't get in peoples faces about it because it's not a popular position to have. You can get away with it more if you're famous a lot of times.

derp at me... must adjust calibrate detector

 

[senseamp]

Thats not true at all!! Most Atheist are just as forceful and pushy as Christians!!
Only they push down everybody throats that they are an Atheist...no difference at all!!

Nope, most atheist don't care if you believe in god or not, there isn't a reason for us to care unless you push your god down our throats. Christians do care about "saving" others though.

 

[Onceler]

That whole business about saving everybody who there is is why I don't like most of my fellow Christians, Silenece is Golden. I believe that they should lead by example not be the sniveling wimps that they are, someone on the outside should be so impressed with their life that they want it for themselves also and ASK for it. They have to ASK for it then it is ok to introduce them to Christ.
Example:
Them :I have noticed that you really have your sh*t together and have a happy life, how do you do it?
You: Christ.
How hard is that?
The bible even says don't try to convert everyone that some are worse off for knowing God then they would have otherwise been.
Do not cast your pearls before swine.

 

[shadow9d9]

Thats not true at all!! Most Atheist are just as forceful and pushy as Christians!!
Only they push down everybody throats that they are an Atheist...no difference at all!!

I'm visited by christians that come to my door to preach about twice a year. I never in my life have had an atheist knock on my door... you?