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Dean's budget-balancing act left taxpayers in red

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,912
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
I doubt that Vermont has higher Taxes than New York or California.


 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
I doubt that Vermont has higher Taxes than New York or California.

from same article.
Congressional Quarterly's Governing magazine, based on data from the U.S. Census Bureau, ranks Vermont second highest among the 50 states in the amount of tax revenue collected as a percentage of personal income in 2001 ? about 9 percent to 10 percent.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,137
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
Which would you rather have? Low taxes or a balanced budget?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,117
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: charrison
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
Which would you rather have? Low taxes or a balanced budget?
Low taxes.....

 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
That article you linked seems really biased and disrespectfull against Dr. Dean.

"That was probably the biggest tax increase bill the governor signed. It raised taxes for about half of Vermont's homeowners and cut them for the other half. It was a redistribution of wealth toward lower-income property taxpayers,"
It would have been nice if the writter had mentioned that the Vermont Supreme Court ruled that school funding need to be funded more evenly. Act 60 makes it so that the schools get X amount of dollars per student and it has a rebate system so that poor and those with working farms can afford to pay there property taxes. The article should have include that the R's gained control of the senate or house the following election and failed to propose any changes to the law.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: charrison
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
Which would you rather have? Low taxes or a balanced budget?
The 2 are not mutually exclusive so i want both.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.

You left spending cuts out of the equation. That is the other way to balance a budget. If he wants to repeal the tax cut for more social spending, I will plan on keeping the tax cut.
 

MonkeyK

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,396
8
81
Sorry guys, but you can't do both at the same time (otherwise the pres would have tried). Cutting taxes and spending is too much of a shock to the 'conomy. When you cut spending, you hurt the 'conomy because that money is not being spent. It seems to me that the sensible approach is to cut taxes then to let the effect trickle into the economy before cutting spending.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Gov. Dean is being a bit disengenuous when he claims to have created the vaunted "rainy day fund " and balanced the budget in VT. The so called rainy day fund is a law that was passed in the 80's that says any surplus revenue that the state collects has to go into this fund. Dean didn't create it. All during the 90's, when revenues were way up, this fund grew. When revenues dropped this fund was used to make up the difference.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,179
1
81
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.

You left spending cuts out of the equation. That is the other way to balance a budget. If he wants to repeal the tax cut for more social spending, I will plan on keeping the tax cut.
Spending cuts is good in theory, but which party will do it? Certainly not the Rs, and most certainly not the Ds.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.

You left spending cuts out of the equation. That is the other way to balance a budget. If he wants to repeal the tax cut for more social spending, I will plan on keeping the tax cut.
Spending cuts is good in theory, but which party will do it? Certainly not the Rs, and most certainly not the Ds.
For now I have to agree, but if the republicans can get 60s seats in the senate, I think goverment reform will be seen. We did not get a huge out of control goverment overnight, and the problem is not going to disappear overnight either :|
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,878
0
76
Keep on dreaming charrison. If the republicans ran MS, they'd bankrupt it. People love to spend money that isn't theirs, so things will never change.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
1
71
Damn Republicans have been on a spending spree since Clinton's last year in office.

Time to get rid of some of them.

 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.

You left spending cuts out of the equation. That is the other way to balance a budget. If he wants to repeal the tax cut for more social spending, I will plan on keeping the tax cut.
What's the alternative? Bush lowered taxes, increased the defecit, and increased spending. Sounds like the trifecta to me. Bush claims to cut spending, but the truth is somewhere else.

If Dean repeals the tax cuts and keeps spending the same or proportionately increases it, the defecit will be better off (assuming the tax money were spent on the defecit and not hijacked).
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BDawg
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

Vermont had one of the highest per capita tax burdens in the country when Howard Dean left the governorship in January to run for president.
Mr. Dean, a Democrat who calls himself a "fiscal conservative," says he balanced all his state budgets by cutting spending. And allies and critics alike praise his budget-balancing record.
Vermont enjoyed a budget surplus this year while most states were in the red because of the recession that began three years ago.
What the former governor doesn't say is that he raised hundreds of millions of dollars in higher taxes, including sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes and corporate taxes, to balance the books while paying for his social welfare proposals.
I hope dean brings balancing the budget into the debate in 04 because it is an important issue. But he is also going to have inform us of how he plans to balance the budget. What is going to have to cut(if anything gets cut) and what taxes are going to be raised.
No kidding, Einstein. You gotta raise taxes if you want to balance the budget and preserve same levels of spending. I guess he could have been like Dubya, increase spending, and cut taxes, but then it would not be a balanced budget.
It's very simple, and let me explain it again for conservatives who live in some strange world where basic math does not apply:
Taxes - Spending = Surplus(if +) or Deficit (if-)
So yes, Dean would have to raise taxes to have a balanced budget, assuming he maintains Bush's level of govt spending.
Americans will decide, do they want higher taxes or high deficits, because one thing is clear, neither Bush nor Dean will give them low spending.

You left spending cuts out of the equation. That is the other way to balance a budget. If he wants to repeal the tax cut for more social spending, I will plan on keeping the tax cut.
What's the alternative? Bush lowered taxes, increased the defecit, and increased spending. Sounds like the trifecta to me. Bush claims to cut spending, but the truth is somewhere else.

If Dean repeals the tax cuts and keeps spending the same or proportionately increases it, the defecit will be better off (assuming the tax money were spent on the defecit and not hijacked).
I would agree with that, but Dean has already states he wants to repeal the tax cut for more spending. This is not a path to fiscal responsability either. Bush proposed a budget that had 4% growth of goverment, and most of the left complained about cuts in increased spending(getting 4 instead of 6% growth). I really dont know what the solution is until both parties are serious about cutting spending.

I think most people on this board would agree that we need to balance out budget and pay our debt. However the folks in DC keep proving their ability to spend more than they take in year after year. The last year our debt contracted was 1960.

linkage

Both democrats and republicans need to call for spending contol in DC.
 

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