Dean ! Dean !

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Dumbest Choice I've Ever Seen . . .

Rates right up there with Hideous Horrible Humphrey & Waldo Mondale . . .

<LA Times>

A few weeks ago, when former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean declared his intention to run for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, news reports had the general tone of "Get this, that crazy scream guy is back and he wants to run the party." Now, a week before the vote, his victory is a fait accompli. How did this happen? Are Democrats suicidally crazy?

Wait. That's too easy. Let me rephrase the question. Why are Democrats suicidally crazy?

The conventional rap against Dean as DNC chairman is essentially the same as the conventional rap against him as presidential candidate a year ago. Namely, he reinforces all the party's weaknesses. Democrats need to appeal to culturally traditional voters in the Midwest and border states who worry about the party's commitment to national security. Dean, with his intense secularism, arrogant style, throngs of high-profile counterculture supporters and association with the peace movement, is the precise opposite of the image Democrats want to send out.

The conventional rap is completely right. But, in a way, Dean is even less suited to run the DNC than he is to run for president.

The DNC chairman has two main jobs. First, he transmits the party's message ? an important role when the party lacks a president and majority leaders in Congress. This job requires one to master the dismal art of "message discipline," boiling down the party's ideas into a few simple phrases and repeating them over and over until they have sunk into the public consciousness.

It's a role for which Dean is particularly ill suited. During his campaign, remember, he fashioned himself a straight talker, delighting reporters by repeatedly wandering "off message." On the plus side, he won friends in the media by appearing honest and human. On the negative side, he did himself enormous damage, when, for example, he suggested that he wouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden until he had been convicted in a court of law.

For presidential candidates, the negatives of "straight talk" usually outweigh the positives. Paul Maslin, Dean's former pollster, wrote in the Atlantic Monthly after the campaign fell apart: "Our candidate's erratic judgment, loose tongue, and overall stubbornness wore our spirits down." But at least for a presidential campaign there are some positives in going off message. In a job like party chairman, a loose cannon is nothing but downside.

The second major task of the DNC chairman is to run the party organization. And here, if this is at all possible, Dean looks even worse. Garance Franke-Ruta, who wrote sympathetic Dean pieces in the American Prospect during the campaign, spoke with several former Dean staffers. One called the candidate "a horrible manager" and added, "I wouldn't trust him to run a company." Another called his management style "just a disaster."

Dean, remember, raised about $50 million by positioning himself as the most anti-Bush candidate, but blew through it so fast that he was nearly broke by January. This represents the sort of financial acumen you associate with deluded, flash-in-the-pan celebrities ? cue the narrator for VH-1's "Behind the Music": "But the good times and lavish spending couldn't last for M.C. Hammer" ? not with chairmen of major political parties.

So, how did Dean manage to trounce all comers for this position? Dean's supporters see his triumph as the victory of the masses over a tiny Democratic elite desperately trying to cling to power. As one left-liberal blogger gloated: "The fact that Howard Dean will most likely be heading up the Democratic Party is our victory. It is the voice of the grass roots lifted up into the halls of power once owned by the 'aristocracy of consultants.' " That actually has it backward. A recent Wall Street Journal poll found that only 27% of Democrats approve of Dean.

In the latest issue of the New Republic, Ryan Lizza described how Dean had prevailed in a process of third-rate intrigue. The choosing of the DNC chairman has been dominated by state parties, whose concerns revolve around expanding perks, including a demand for a $200,000 handout for each state party from the national party. Nobody seemed to pay much attention to the good of the party as a whole. Meanwhile, Dean touched those leaders' ideological erogenous zones, promising to "feed our core constituencies" and not be "Republican-lite."

As the last election showed, the core constituencies are plenty well fed. There just aren't enough of them to win the White House.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Thank you god!

Actually my problems wasnt so much his opinions but he just looked like a middle aged SUV driving a-hole!

Somebody who will simple run you off the road so he can get that extra car length ahead of everybody else. I suspect mainstream democrats saw this also which is why he didnt get the nomination.

 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
I kinda liked Dean when he was running. I disagreed with a good portion of his ideals and theories, but I think he would have been a better candidate and potential president that Kerry.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
You know, Genx, my initial thoughts about him were the same! My friends and I call them the "thick-necks". The type of person who wouldn't step aside to let you through the hallway.


But, that aside, I think he'll do ok at the DNC.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
You guys couldn't be more wrong. Dean is a great candidate for any position, he has a great track record as a very good governor of Vermont.

The democrats need a fiery leader, a person who is willing to say what he means and means what he says, and Dean is that person. Is he a wacko at times? Sure he is, but that does not mean its always a bad thing. I personally liked the scream speech and I truly like Dean. We need more people in politics like Dean

He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency. Look how many new young people he brought into the base, and he is the pioneer for raising vast amounts of money over the internet. There tons of religious followers of Dean out there, and there is a reason for that.

Go Dean.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.
Dean balanced EVERY budget in Vermont. Dean provided universal healthcare to residents. Dean provided improved access to prescription medication to seniors. Dean protected reasonable gun rights.

I think all of these positions appeal broadly to moderates. I'm willing to wager more than a few REAL conservatives believe in balanced budgets as well.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Yup you need to lie and double-speak all the time if you want to win..Like republicans.

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

Raildogg, is that you?????
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

k

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

Ok but 1 year later they do? Think about it for a second.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

Sure

Dean balanced EVERY budget in Vermont. Dean provided universal healthcare to residents. Dean provided improved access to prescription medication to seniors. Dean protected reasonable gun rights.

I could be wrong but I believe almost every state in the Union has a consituational amendment that says they are required to balance a budget every year. That doesnt really hold much water when it comes to the federal level.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,516
3,952
136
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

Raildogg, is that you?????

Tell me about it that is the 2nd post that I have read of his that I totaly agree with.



 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

I think your overestimating the typical persons knowledge of politics. The typical person can barely name the vice-president and can't name the Attorney General, what makes you think they even give a damn who the chairman of the parties are. Besides, it's the candidates who appeal to the moderates, while it's the chaimans job to appeal to the base.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

Raildogg, is that you?????

Tell me about it that is the 2nd post that I have read of his that I totaly agree with.

Quick. Ask the mods to contact the police. He's been ABDUCTED!!!


:laugh:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
He would energize the democratic party just like how he brought new life into the party during his run for the presidency.

I dont think energizing is the problem. Getting moderates to vote for democrats is.
Democrats were plenty energized this last time around but still lost because in the end Kerry just didnt appeal as much as Bush did to moderates.

Ugh, this is repeated so often I'm starting to think everyone believes it. But if you look at the last election, Kerry got 55% of the moderate vote to Bush's 45% (IIRC). Bush didn't win because he appealed better to the moderates, he won because more conservatives voted that liberals (there are probably more conservatives in general). In fact, if you look at the main reason Bush increased his percentage of the popular vote from 2000, it's because he appealed to more conservatives.

So what do the Democrats need to do? Some might suggest, as many have here, that they need to be a Republican-Lite party, that their "problem" is that moderates don't support them. That is clearly not the case, moderates prefered Kerry over Bush. If the only voters had been moderates, Kerry would be president with a lead that makes win in the election look sad. Now, maybe the idea is that they need to get MORE than 55% of the moderate vote. That's one plan, but since those people are "moderates" a certain percentage will probably always lean towards the right, and making gains on a 55% lead might be difficult, at least by changing positions on the issues.

The other method is to "convert" that 45% of moderates that didn't vote Democrat. Let's face it, the Democrats led by Kerry weren't confident and energetic...Kerry just didn't do that very well. Politics is one part issues, but the other part is the ability to energize your voters and get them excited about your party as leaders. I think a Democratic party able to do this will stand a much better chance of stealing some more of the already leaning moderates over to their side, no need to change position on the issues.
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
0
0
I really wish Dean would have been the Democratic nominee. Bush would still probably have won with his fanatical followers, but at least there would have been a clear choice.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

:thumbsup:

I don't think I'll ever understand the myth about Dean representing the radical left. but why actually look at his record when you can listen to pundits?

before the primaries began (and the media destroyed Dean by overhyping and overplaying that "scream" speach), a lot of the Democrats I knew were really dismayed about Dean taking the early lead because they thought he was too far to the right.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
How is Dean a radical leftist? That is a myth generated by his detractors. This guy was a very popular governor in Vermont, which is not some liberal state.

k

Dean lost to Kerry because of all the disinformation spread by the power players in the democratic party. They did not want a outspoken guy to lead them, they did not want a guy with guts to challenge them on their mistakes so they wanted a softer spoken guy to run instead - Kerry. Dean was a much better candidate than Kerry all the way along and only lost in the past few weeks to Kerry due to the all the false negative attacks on him by the Washington democrats.

Ok but 1 year later they do? Think about it for a second.

These beltway democrats did not want a non-Washingtoner to run and challenge their authority. Dean is a great man who was unfairly trashed.

Sure

Dean balanced EVERY budget in Vermont. Dean provided universal healthcare to residents. Dean provided improved access to prescription medication to seniors. Dean protected reasonable gun rights.

I could be wrong but I believe almost every state in the Union has a consituational amendment that says they are required to balance a budget every year. That doesnt really hold much water when it comes to the federal level.

Dean also received the endorsement of the freaking NRA when he was governor. The last nail in gun control

The media loves to protray him as some left-wing nut from some backwoods state but he is very moderate on many issues but can also be an impassioned voice for Democratic core beliefs.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
DLC GOP-liters have been running the Democratic party for last 10 years, and to what effect? You can't win elections if you surrender in the battle of ideas. Not over long term.
 

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
2,335
0
0
i saw dean give a campaign talk here at ISU in the molecular biology building where i work just before the caucus, he was awesome, i dig the guy, he is not afraid to say what he feels, even though i supported kerry, i thnk dean would have been a better candidate do to the fact that he would answer questions straight out, which is not seen too often in politics.

i really feel the government is out of touch with the general population, be you a rep or a dem, they are able to do this through control of the media


with more than 50% of the country feeling that invading iraq was a bad idea, why not have the head of your party anti-war?
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: SuperTool
DLC GOP-liters have been running the Democratic party for last 10 years, and to what effect? You can't win elections if you surrender in the battle of ideas. Not over long term.

Clinton won by taking GOP ideas and preceived strengths and making it his own. Some would say co-opt, some would say taking the issue off the table so the other side won't bash your head in with it. Take welfare reform off the table. Take the soft on crime issue off the table by standing around with the police unions and the 100,000 police officer bill. He knew what he was doing. Karl Rove did the same thing. Kerry tried (firefighter union, Vietnam vet, etc) but Democrats are still preceived as soft on terrorism. Stand for core Democratic beliefs but never let the other side bash your head in with some issue you cannot win on.