Dean Compared to FDR and JFK

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
0
0
No, not in the liberal wetdream way you're thinking:

Napster Runs For President

I am not a partisan of Dr. Dean or any other Democratic candidate. I don't know what will happen on Election Day 2004. But I do know this: the rise of Howard Dean is not your typical political Cinderella story. The constant comparisons made between him and George McGovern and Barry Goldwater ? each of whom rode a wave of anger within his party to his doomed nomination ? are facile. Yes, Dr. Dean's followers are angry about his signature issue, the war. Dr. Dean is marginalized in other ways as well: a heretofore obscure governor from a tiny state best known for its left-wing ice cream and gay civil unions, a flip-flopper on some pivotal issues and something of a hothead. This litany of flaws has been repeated at every juncture of the campaign this far, just as it is now. And yet the guy keeps coming back, surprising those in Washington and his own party who misunderstand the phenomenon and dismiss him.

The elusive piece of this phenomenon is cultural: the Internet. Rather than compare Dr. Dean to McGovern or Goldwater, it may make more sense to recall Franklin Roosevelt and John Kennedy. It was not until F.D.R.'s fireside chats on radio in 1933 that a medium in mass use for years became a political force. J.F.K. did the same for television, not only by vanquishing the camera-challenged Richard Nixon during the 1960 debates but by replacing the Eisenhower White House's prerecorded TV news conferences (which could be cleaned up with editing) with live broadcasts. Until Kennedy proved otherwise, most of Washington's wise men thought, as The New York Times columnist James Reston wrote in 1961, that a spontaneous televised press conference was "the goofiest idea since the Hula Hoop."

Such has been much of the reaction to the Dean campaign's breakthrough use of its chosen medium. In Washington, the Internet is still seen mainly as a high-velocity disseminator of gossip (Drudge) and rabidly partisan sharpshooting by self-publishing excoriators of the left and right. When used by campaigns, the Internet becomes a synonym for "the young," "geeks," "small contributors" and "upper middle class," as if it were an eccentric electronic cousin to direct-mail fund-raising run by the acne-prone members of a suburban high school's computer club. In other words, the political establishment has been blindsided by the Internet's growing sophistication as a political tool ? and therefore blindsided by the Dean campaign ? much as the music industry establishment was by file sharing and the major movie studios were by "The Blair Witch Project," the amateurish under-$100,000 movie that turned viral marketing on the Web into a financial mother lode.

[....]

In that sense, the candidate is a perfect fit for his chosen medium. Though his campaign's Internet dependence was initially dictated by necessity when he had little organization and no money, it still serves his no-frills personality even when he's the fund-raising champ. Dr. Dean runs the least personal of campaigns; his wife avoids the stump. That's a strategy befitting an online, not an on-TV, personality. Dr. Dean's irascible polemical tone is made for the Web, too. Jonah Peretti, a new media specialist at Eyebeam, an arts organization in New York, observes that boldness is to the Internet what F.D.R.'s voice was to radio and J.F.K.'s image to television: "A moderate message is not the kind of thing that friends want to e-mail to each other and say, `You gotta take a look at this!' "

Unlike Al Gore, Dr. Dean doesn't aspire to be hip about computers. "The Internet is a tool, not a campaign platform," he has rightly said, and he needn't be a techie any more than pilot his own campaign plane. But if no tool, however powerful, can make anyone president in itself, it can smash opponents hard when it draws a ton of cash. Money talks to the old media and buys its advertising. Dr. Dean's message has already upstaged the official Democratic party and its presumed rulers, the Clintons. Thanks to the Supreme Court's upholding of the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform, he also holds a strategic advantage over the Democratic National Committee in fund-raising, at least for now.

Should Dr. Dean actually end up running against President Bush next year, an utterly asymmetrical battle will be joined. The Bush-Cheney machine is a centralized hierarchy reflecting its pre-digital C.E.O. ethos (and the political training of Karl Rove); it is accustomed to broadcasting to voters from on high rather than drawing most of its grass-roots power from what bubbles up from insurgents below.

For all sorts of real-world reasons, stretching from Baghdad to Wall Street, Mr. Bush could squish Dr. Dean like a bug next November. But just as anything can happen in politics, anything can happen on the Internet. The music industry thought tough talk, hard-knuckle litigation and lobbying Congress could stop the forces unleashed by Shawn Fanning, the teenager behind Napster. Today the record business is in meltdown, and more Americans use file-sharing software than voted for Mr. Bush in the last presidential election. The luckiest thing that could happen to the Dean campaign is that its opponents remain oblivious to recent digital history and keep focusing on analog analogies to McGovern and Goldwater instead.

He makes a good point about many political observers (including the right wingers here) not understanding why Dean is so popular and has earned such a loyal following. He's not just a one issue candidate.

But for the sake of our country's future, I hope Karl Rove and all you naysayers keep thinking that he is.
 

NightCrawler

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,179
0
0
I understand perfectly well why he is popular, the looney left is pissed off and he is tapping into that anger. He's probably to far to the left to elected though, that is what worries the moderates in his party.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,936
6,794
126
Originally posted by: NightCrawler
I understand perfectly well why he is popular, the looney left is pissed off and he is tapping into that anger. He's probably to far to the left to elected though, that is what worries the moderates in his party.

He may be too far to the left, but he isn't too far off the truth and that is what matters. He is clearly and obviously superior to Bush in all important ways and he has a functioning brain.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Yes, but if the last election proved anything, it's that having a functioning brain is not cause to be elected. :D

Edit: Or installed into power by the Supreme Court.
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
0
0
Originally posted by: NightCrawler
I understand perfectly well why he is popular, the looney left is pissed off and he is tapping into that anger. He's probably to far to the left to elected though, that is what worries the moderates in his party.

You just proved that you really don't understand why he's popular...
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
i think the biggest difference between dean and FDR/JFK is that he is not dead :Q


notice that both presidents died prematurely while still in office as well
 

Syringer

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
19,333
3
71
Great observation
rolleye.gif
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
i think the biggest difference between dean and FDR/JFK is that he is not dead :Q


notice that both presidents died prematurely while still in office as well
LOL:)
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
0
0
Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla
Originally posted by: NightCrawler
I understand perfectly well why he is popular, the looney left is pissed off and he is tapping into that anger. He's probably to far to the left to elected though, that is what worries the moderates in his party.

You just proved that you really don't understand why he's popular...



Ditto
 

kandarp

Platinum Member
May 19, 2003
2,852
0
0
the war (foreign policy toward the middle east at least) is the only issue which is he a tree hugger about, nearly all the other issues (fiscal conservative, healthcare) he is pretty much a centrist.
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
0
0
Originally posted by: kandarp
the war (foreign policy toward the middle east at least) is the only issue which is he a tree hugger about, nearly all the other issues (fiscal conservative, healthcare) he is pretty much a centrist.


..except wanting our elderly to work until 72-75, in an effort to "fix" Social Security. Oh, wait, he "re-invented" himself and moved away from that position once the AARP gave him a call...
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
If FDR was alive today, people would accuse him of being a neocon. How interesting that liberals love the man and his policies but hate those advocating the same thing today.

I guess it's ok only when action is taken under a liberal flag; a liberal president; is in support of a liberal agenda; and under the auspices of a liberal institution. Otherwise, it's just a conspiracy fabricated in Texas.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
"If FDR was alive today, people would accuse him of being a neocon. How interesting that liberals love the man and his policies but hate those advocating the same thing today."

Stunning, and not for its brilliance or incisive reasoning, either. Too bad modern neocons don't support social security, labor unions, progressive income tax, antitrust actions, or that they'd sooner die than institute anything like the NRA or WPA.

But I'm sure you think you're right, Dari, within modern doublespeak parameters... Go read some more Coulter, her revisionist view of history will warm your heart...

It seems fairly obvious you didn't read the linked material, that's for sure. Nothing unusual about that, though....
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"If FDR was alive today, people would accuse him of being a neocon. How interesting that liberals love the man and his policies but hate those advocating the same thing today."

Stunning, and not for its brilliance or incisive reasoning, either. Too bad modern neocons don't support social security, labor unions, progressive income tax, antitrust actions, or that they'd sooner die than institute anything like the NRA or WPA.

But I'm sure you think you're right, Dari, within modern doublespeak parameters... Go read some more Coulter, her revisionist view of history will warm your heart...

It seems fairly obvious you didn't read the linked material, that's for sure. Nothing unusual about that, though....

You are wrong, my friend. Neocons do support social security, progressive income tax, antitrust actions, but not all labor unions. Seems like you've already forgotten about the social security bill that Bush passed a couple of months ago. You've also forgotten that neocons are basically Democrats that disagreed with the direction the Democratic Party was taking in relations to foreign policy in the 1960s and even today. Neocons are the very embodiment of all that is great about America.

I think you're confusing neocons with conservatives. BTW, Coulter does not speak for or represent me.

EDIT2: In fact, if you've ever analyzed my posts, you'll see that I basically agree with most of the "liberals" here in domestic matters, but disagree strongly in foreign affairs (or stay out of the conversation all-together).
 

kandarp

Platinum Member
May 19, 2003
2,852
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"If FDR was alive today, people would accuse him of being a neocon. How interesting that liberals love the man and his policies but hate those advocating the same thing today."

Stunning, and not for its brilliance or incisive reasoning, either. Too bad modern neocons don't support social security, labor unions, progressive income tax, antitrust actions, or that they'd sooner die than institute anything like the NRA or WPA.

But I'm sure you think you're right, Dari, within modern doublespeak parameters... Go read some more Coulter, her revisionist view of history will warm your heart...

It seems fairly obvious you didn't read the linked material, that's for sure. Nothing unusual about that, though....


Anne Coulter is the Al Sharpton of the right wing, I cant wait till they do an SNL peice about her.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
"You are wrong, my friend. Neocons do support social security, progressive income tax, antitrust actions, but not all labor unions."

Well, Dari, it's your assertion that's been questioned, so you really need to back it up. Link to Neocon quotes supporting your position.

They're mostly pretty vague on domestic issues, near as I can tell but the simple fact that they're in bed with the "break the bank" wing of the republican party indicates their true intent. Lacking any clear statements on the part of neocons, it's only fair to judge them by the company they keep...

And there's this-

"It is a basic assumption of neoconservatism that, as a consequence of the spread of affluence among all classes, a property-owning and tax-paying population will, in time, become less vulnerable to egalitarian illusions and demagogic appeals and more sensible about the fundamentals of economic reckoning."

From here, page 2-

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/000tzmlw.asp

So, uhh, just what is he telling us? that we'll sell out our "egalitarian illusions" for more consumer goods? And just what is this "economic reckoning" other than the concentration of wealth and income among a very few?
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
FDR yes JFK no way, JFK was to far to the right, I heard today that Dean backed down on what he said, We need to put Clinton behind us, He should know the people that cross or get in Clintons way doesn't seem to live very long and the Clinton's run the democrat party