Dealership is pulling one over on me..

[evilbix]

I have a 99 passat, and I bought my car over to the dealership to get it checked out. The wheel was shaking in the front wheel as I was driving. Get it there, they fix the upper links and tie rods on the front two wheels.

$1500 and one day later, I get it back. 100 miles of driving, it starts happening again in the front left wheel. Bring it back to the dealership today, they check it out and say it's in the power steering and it's going to cost $1800 + tax to fix it. It's directly connected to the parts that were having problems in the first place, and they failed to notice this during diagnostic. I paid to have the problem fixed, and the managers explanation was "it worked out the door, so it's not our fault". My argument was that I paid $1500 to have it fixed correctly, and it wasn't.

Is there any recourse for me? I contacted the VW corporate offices, and they said they'd get back in a few days. Is this even worth waiting for or should I take further action now? If so, what should I do?

I can't function without a car for two weeks in a row, I have to make money to pay the bills and the car isn't safe to drive. I'm in north jersey, mahwah to be exact, and public transportation is not an option.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dirtboy]

If both parts are broken and they both lead to the cause of the problem, what recourse do you want? Take it somewhere else and have it diagnosed.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Sorry, but the dealer is correct. They replaced parts that were worn and that did fix the problem in their test drives (and in your own initial 100 miles). Do you expect the dealership to put over 100 miles on a car when they road-test it to verify that the repairs worked?

I know that I'd be pissed as all hell if a mechanic put 100 miles on my car after I took it in to be fixed.

There's no way for the mechanic to know that there are remaining faults if all symptoms are gone. If everything is working correctly when it leaves the shop and breaks later, they aren't liable unless the failure is one of the parts they replaced. They did no work on the steering rack and as such have no responsibility for it. It is a separate failure, unrelated to the first.

You did not pay, "to have it fixed correctly", you paid to have the upper links and tie rods replaced. Unless you can show that the parts that the dealership replaced have failed and are causing the recurrence of the issue, you have no recourse because the dealership did exactly what they said they would and the issue was fixed when the car left the dealership.

Bottom line: Mechanic fixed the issue. Issue re-appeared due to a different part failing 100 miles later. Mechanic is not liable for the second failure.

ZV

 

[chris7b]

First solution is you bought a VW...get rid of it!

Second solution... take it in for a second opinion to another mechanic (should cost way less than 1800). Make sure its not something as simple as a wheel balancing issue.

 

[evilbix]

My issue is that it is an "authorized dealer" and the steering column is the core problem. It is what caused the other issue to occur, and the failed to notice that the first time I brought it in.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: evilbix
My issue is that it is an "authorized dealer" and the steering column is the core problem. It is what caused the other issue to occur, and the failed to notice that the first time I brought it in.

How do you know it caused the other issue to occur? And the steering column is not the same as the steering rack.

Best you can hope for is that they reduce the labor a bit to compensate for the time spent removing parts they already replaced the first time (tie rod ends-they'll have to be partially removed when the rack is replaced) and maybe not charge you for another alignment. Still, I can't imagine this would amount to much money. Maybe $100 or so.

 

[evilbix]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: evilbix
My issue is that it is an "authorized dealer" and the steering column is the core problem. It is what caused the other issue to occur, and the failed to notice that the first time I brought it in.

How do you know it caused the other issue to occur? And the steering column is not the same as the steering rack.

Best you can hope for is that they reduce the labor a bit to compensate for the time spent removing parts they already replaced the first time (tie rod ends-they'll have to be partially removed when the rack is replaced) and maybe not charge you for another alignment. Still, I can't imagine this would amount to much money. Maybe $100 or so.

The service manager had told me that it was the core of the problem and he couldn't have known before. He said it is what caused the problem for the right side, and now those parts are replaced it's now occurring on the left side for the same reason. On the quote it states "Road tested found power steering pump and rack locking up causing customer concern at this time."

He's probably just giving me some bs, but I can't really argue it. I know nothing about cars other than how to change breaks, accessory belts, rotate tires, and change my oil.

 

[LTC8K6]

Get another opinion?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: evilbix

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: evilbix
My issue is that it is an "authorized dealer" and the steering column is the core problem. It is what caused the other issue to occur, and the failed to notice that the first time I brought it in.

How do you know it caused the other issue to occur? And the steering column is not the same as the steering rack.

Best you can hope for is that they reduce the labor a bit to compensate for the time spent removing parts they already replaced the first time (tie rod ends-they'll have to be partially removed when the rack is replaced) and maybe not charge you for another alignment. Still, I can't imagine this would amount to much money. Maybe $100 or so.

The service manager had told me that it was the core of the problem and he couldn't have known before. He said it is what caused the problem for the right side, and now those parts are replaced it's now occurring on the left side for the same reason. On the quote it states "Road tested found power steering pump and rack locking up causing customer concern at this time."

He's probably just giving me some bs, but I can't really argue it. I know nothing about cars other than how to change breaks, accessory belts, rotate tires, and change my oil.

Regardless, the rack needs to be replaced and those other parts would also have needed to be replaced. You'd still be out the same money. Yeah, it would have been more convenient if they had realized the rack was bad when you first had it in but it wouldn't have saved you much money.

Like I said, best you can hope for is that they give you a break (note the correct usage of this word) on the labor and not charge you for a second alignment.

Oh, and it's brakes not breaks. Brakes are what slow your car down when you press on the brake pedal. Breaks are what happen when a rock hits your windshield. They are two completely different words with completely different meanings.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: evilbix
The service manager had told me that it was the core of the problem and he couldn't have known before. He said it is what caused the problem for the right side, and now those parts are replaced it's now occurring on the left side for the same reason. On the quote it states "Road tested found power steering pump and rack locking up causing customer concern at this time."

He's probably just giving me some bs, but I can't really argue it. I know nothing about cars other than how to change breaks, accessory belts, rotate tires, and change my oil.

This is not an uncommon issue. One part can sometimes cause others to fail. It is possible that the issue with the steering pump and rack created the wear on the suspension pieces.

However, you also have an older car and the problem with the steering rack is uncommon. It is, however, common for older cars to suffer worn suspension. The mechanic simply found the direct cause, attributed it to vehicle age (a normally safe and correct attribution), road tested the car and found the problem solved, and reported that it was fixed.

I don't think that it's reasonable in this case to assume that the mechanic should have known that the steering rack was causing the problem.

I do agree with others who say to get a second opinion though, just to double check.

ZV

 

[bctbct]

hope they at least checked to see if you had a bad or unbalanced tire before they decided to screw you.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: bctbct
hope they at least checked to see if you had a bad or unbalanced tire before they decided to screw you.

Or simply a bent wheel.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: bctbct
hope they at least checked to see if you had a bad or unbalanced tire before they decided to screw you.

Or simply a bent wheel.

Yes, because an unbalanced tire or bent wheel would magically fix itself for 100 miles only to un-fix itself again. :roll:

The fact that the car was fine when he initially left the dealership eliminates the potential for an unbalanced tire or a bent wheel as those issues would have remained constant and would not have disappeared for even a short time based on what was done to the car.

ZV

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: bctbct
hope they at least checked to see if you had a bad or unbalanced tire before they decided to screw you.

Or simply a bent wheel.

Yes, because an unbalanced tire or bent wheel would magically fix itself for 100 miles only to un-fix itself again. :roll:

The fact that the car was fine when he initially left the dealership eliminates the potential for an unbalanced tire or a bent wheel as those issues would have remained constant and would not have disappeared for even a short time based on what was done to the car.

ZV

Those 2 specific problems sometimes only present themselves at certain speeds, he may not have drove at those speeds during those 100 miles.

What do I know, trained professions fixed this for him, oh wait...

 

[ultimatebob]

I can tell you from experience that VW Corporate isn't going to do much help you. If you're lucky they MIGHT call the dealer and ask them to cut you a break on some of the labor, but even then the dealer isn't obligated to help if they don't want to.

I'd recommend getting your car fixed at a reputable German auto mechanic next time, and skip the dealer from now on. Once the warranty runs out, the VW dealer is going to try to squeeze every penny out of you on repairs.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: evilbix
My issue is that it is an "authorized dealer" and the steering column is the core problem. It is what caused the other issue to occur, and the failed to notice that the first time I brought it in.

How would you propose that they figure out the steering is the problem? They fixed an obvious problem, drove it and the problem was not present, you picked it up and drove it for 100 miles before you noticed the problem again.

Again, what do you think they should have done differently? "Authorized" dealer means nothing. And the best mechanic in the world can't diagnose a problem like that if he can't duplicate it.

One thing people don't EVER consider before they pop off and accuse a mechanic of screwing them over, and if my CC instructor said this once, he said it a thousand times:

"You can change/fix one thing, and it changes everything else. " Sometimes you just have to start with the obvious and see what happens next. There is no mechanical "net" you can cast and catch all the problems at once every time.

This stuff happens all the time, through no fault of the mechanic. Especially on stuff like Check Engine lights. Car runs around with a CEL on for awhile, then gets fixed. A week later, the light is on again, different codes. But the customer just sees the same light on and raises holy hell with the shop.
Riding around with the light on and the computer compensating for a failed sensor affects everything else...so when you get that sensor replaced and the computer tries to go back to normal, another sensor doesn't like that and then fails. And nobody could have predicted it.

You have a similar situation here. Best you could hope for is a discount.

 

[Killrose]

About all the origional OP can do is go the the dealership gen manager and throw a hissy fit. Make it a good one too. Although I know nothing about the rest of the details of your car and not seeing the repair order along with comments of the repair, the parts list or the actual repairs to make sure half your bill was'nt spent on other things you authorized to do on the car lets say, I am not like others here that are giving the dealership and its mech a clear bill of health.

The mech could have greased up a worn out suspension fitting which could explain a good to go on his test drive and the grease finally puking out everywhere after 100mi driven by the OP.

 

[evilbix]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I spoke with my best friends father, who happens to live about 200 miles from where I am. He used to run the truck fleet for hostess, and then my step-father who ran the truck fleet for asbury park press.

My step father did not have much input other than stating that the mechanic is obviously retarded and the diagnostic was complete failure. My best friends father had informed me that this is a part that he would personally check on any vehicle with the problem I had. He explained that although it is not very common, it is not much work to check the adjoining part and see if there is any further problems due to the fact that I had paid $135 for the problem to be exposed, and obviously there was other major faults in the system. Both have accepted to testify as expert witnesses if this goes to court.

However, VW care has done nothing so far. I am going in to speak with the general manager whenever he is around, apparently today he is off for personal reasons so I have to wait until tomorrow.

I have also contacted the bureau of consumer affairs and they have also taken my side on this one. I think it's going to move fairly smooth from here, but thanks again to everyone for at least hearing me vent. I was just extremely frustrated at the attitude I was given. And also the bait and switch of a "free repair if anything is wrong with the entire system" to the $1801+tax invoice on the same exact system.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I think your friend's father is wrong. If the problem isn't acting up at the time, there is no diagnostic that can be done to expose it. Evidently you aren't listening to everyone in this thread and just to people who are telling you what you want to hear.

Consumer affairs is always going to take the customer's side, because everybody there thinks mechanics are crooks, too...they don't know their butts from a hole in the ground about cars.

IMO, what the dealership should do is re-diag for no charge, and maybe a discount on the rest of the repairs....you'd have paid full price for them if they had found it the first time.

I just don't see how any reasonable person can drive a car 100 miles before it acts up and think the shop should have magically found the problem when it wasn't acting up.

 

[alkemyst]

asshats aside above.

While the dealer can't always know the extent of a problem, as one they can offer compromises should their solution not be the complete one.

They should be able to waive the common labor costs to complete this as if they fixed it all from the start.

Being that all of the parts were problematic they didn't really fix anything not broken.

As a dealer backed by the manufacturer they should be able to take symptoms and apply a proper fix unless it's an extremely rare issue or first occurance.

 

[tylerdustin2008]

Take it to a real mechanic. My uncle would fix it, if it started doing it again he would fix it. You buy the parts, he installs free of charge.

 

[dirtboy]

VW's are one of the most unreliable vehicles on the road. You should expect them to break and break frequently. This is why I don't drive used cars. If you want reliability, buy a reliable brand or always buy new.

If you want to blame the dealer, which you do since you are a coward... you didn't even take the car to a different shop to get a 2nd opinion. You should always do that before committing to $2,000. You'll get nothing out of the dealership and the CA Dept will do nothing.

Remember in the future, cars are mechanical... and things break. Oh and avoid VW's in general. That was your first mistake.

 

[evilbix]

Good for you, dirtboy. Not everyone has the money to buy brand new cars. Unfortunately for me, I am in college. I'm sorry I can't be just like you and buy brand new cars when it pleases me.

I did get a second opinion. The other estimate was higher, and they did not even bother to notice the other problem as well. However, it was a local tire shop that also services vehicles. They noticed the problem with the tie rods and upper links as I was getting the tires changed. They did not do a diagnostic, or even go as far as to fix the issue and fail to notice the connect part was also broken.

Also, thanks for reminding me that a car is mechanical. As I am currently pursuing a masters in engineering physics, however, I also suffer from severe mental retardation. Without your kind non-condescending advice I would've never been able to determine what a mechanical device is.

I'll be sure to remember your advice next time I go to buy a car, moron.

 

[T2urtle]

I worked for a VW dealership last year. And i've only seens 1 rack replaced on a b5 passat. on the other hand i've replaced plenty of tie rod, CV boots. links and etc.


When i diagnosised a car, i told the customer honestly, "i think you need to replace A, B, C this will fix your main problem. BUT i've seen in the past where fixing these can cause more wear on D and you might need to replace D. Normally i would tell you to replace D all togther but i'm trying to save you time and money here on not replacing a part that might not be fix."

I've stated those lines to all the customers where i knew it was a 10% chance of other parts failing. The problem with the passats are they have a muli-link suspension. That isn't shared on the jetta/ GTI/ beetle. So most techs there aren't exactly familiar with.

From personal experience the best you can hope for now is... employee discount on the parts and maybe 500$ to install a rack, $150 to align the car. FREE diag, because you paid for it the first time and the tech failed to inform you of POSSIBLE failures.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: dirtboy
VW's are one of the most unreliable vehicles on the road. You should expect them to break and break frequently. This is why I don't drive used cars. If you want reliability, buy a reliable brand or always buy new.

If you want to blame the dealer, which you do since you are a coward... you didn't even take the car to a different shop to get a 2nd opinion. You should always do that before committing to $2,000. You'll get nothing out of the dealership and the CA Dept will do nothing.

Remember in the future, cars are mechanical... and things break. Oh and avoid VW's in general. That was your first mistake.

What pillar of reliability you driving?