DDR2 Sodimms - What are good timings ?

[1EZduzit]

I just ordered a Compaq Pressario 410 Notebook. It only has two slots and comes with 2 x 256 of DDR2 PC4200 and I'd like to upgrade to 1 gig.

Will I have to settle for a higher CAS to do that?

It's only a Celeron M cpu, does it use dual channel? If not, would I be ahead of the game getting a 1 gig stick instead of 2 x 512?

thanks for any help

 

[Ruptga]

We have a HP 4900 series celeron, got it a year or two ago. It has an old Celeron M, not the yonah-based, so it has the 400mhz fsb, and it does not support dual channel memory, in fact it uses PC2700 DDR.

I really have no idea, but I'd guess that if your laptop has a new Celeron M, meaning it is Core based and uses the 533mhz fsb, it should support dual channel, but that's just my guess. I did find a compaq presario 410 with the Core based Celeron M, yours probably is too. If it says 1.46Ghz instead of 1.5Ghz, you know it's Core based.

You can find out for sure though, get the specific model number of your laptop, like 418c or whatever it is, and search the manufacturer's website, or if that doesn't work do a Yahoo search, or whichever engine you prefer. Unless you have access to its paper documentation, that's all I know to do.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Um....I don't think there is a Presario 410. All of the latest Compaq notebooks are named like the HP's, with a letter followed by numbers, ie V2000.

Anyway, latencies don't matter in notebooks bud. Esp on an Intel system. Get the cheapest stuff you can get. I'd get the G.SKILL on this list.

 

[1EZduzit]

Sorry about not putting the full model number in, it's a Presario V5207NR.
Compaq Presario V5207NR Notebook PC - Product Specifications

It says it has the 1.46 Celeron M Proccesor 410 with 1 MB L2 cache, and 512MB (2 dimms) of 533MHz memory. Is this going to need dual channel memory? All I know is that I looked that model up at Crucial and they said you could just add one stick at a time so? With dual channel don't you have to have 2 identical sticks? I suppose you could add one stick ata a time and not run it in dual channel?

I emailed HP support and asked them if this system couold be upgraded to a core duo cpu. If they say yes, then it should be able to take advatage of dual channel? Is there a big advantage to dual channel?


I'm also wondering what video chip this has. It says Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950, but I was doing some poking around and they have 2 flavors. The 950 celeron and the 950 core. The 950 caore sounds like it's much better the the 950 Celeron. I guess I'll probably just have to wait until it gets here to find out.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[fbrdphreak]

Yes, you can upgrade to Core Duo. Your machine likely uses the 945GM chipset, but use CPU-Z to verify what chipset you have.

Really all of your questions depend on the chipset. The "GMA950 for Celeron M" may mean you have the Intel 940GML chipset, which limits your options a lot. From the look of Intel's data sheet, it only supports Celeron M chips, no dual channel memory, and a lower clocked GMA950.

If CPU-Z doesn't tell you, google for "Everest Home Edition" and download it. Everest will definitely tell you the chipset.

If you do have a 945GM chipset which supports Core Duo, dual channel, and the full GMA950, I would still put in 1x1GB RAM. That way you can easily upgrade to 2GB. Dual channel doesn't do a lot for performance, and doing 2x512MB limits your upgrade options as you have to toss one of the sticks to upgrade.

 

[abefastcash]

Im wondering the same thing about this laptop, i have nearly the same version as i have the presario v5204NR.
CPUZ specs:
codename - yonah
package - mPGA-479M
chipset - i945PM/GM/GT/i940GML

my 2 questions are:
1. can i upgrade in the future to any of the better processors such as core solo, duo, or the new 2 duo or anything better than the celeron m410 i have now?
2. like he said, is i better to have 1 1gb stick or 512x2 kit?

any help would be much appreciated as im new to the laptop world

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: abefastcash
Im wondering the same thing about this laptop, i have nearly the same version as i have the presario v5204NR.
CPUZ specs:
codename - yonah
package - mPGA-479M
chipset - i945PM/GM/GT/i940GML

my 2 questions are:
1. can i upgrade in the future to any of the better processors such as core solo, duo, or the new 2 duo or anything better than the celeron m410 i have now?
2. like he said, is i better to have 1 1gb stick or 512x2 kit?

any help would be much appreciated as im new to the laptop world

It sounds to me like you need to google for the Everest Home Edition" as per fbrdphreak's recommendation to see exactly what chip set you have. I thin cpu-z is just telling you it's in that family, but doesn't specify exactly which one it is.

 

[1EZduzit]

fbrdphreak, I need a clarification on something. When I get my laptop and check the chipset, if it has the 945GM chipset, then wouldn't I want to get the 667 MHz sodimm instead of the 533 so I would be ready to upgrade to a core dup cpu when the time comes?

BTW, HP answered me back and all they said was they don't reccomend or support processor upgrade after you purchase.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
fbrdphreak, I need a clarification on something. When I get my laptop and check the chipset, if it has the 945GM chipset, then wouldn't I want to get the 667 MHz sodimm instead of the 533 so I would be ready to upgrade to a core dup cpu when the time comes?

BTW, HP answered me back and all they said was they don't reccomend or support processor upgrade after you purchase.

In general, processor upgrades void any warranty you have on your laptop/desktop. You could throw in 667MHz sodimms when you upgrade to a Core Duo processor, but the 533MHz will be almost as fast since they have lower CAS latency. If you throw the memory into a dual-channel configuration too, the added frequency of the RAM wouldn't make much of a difference as you'll have more than enough bandwidth with dual-channeled 533MHz RAM.

 

[fbrdphreak]

If you have the 945GM chipset, it will support DDR2 667 and dual channel RAM. As I mentioned, the performance difference between single & dual channel RAM is negligible and I would go with the convenience of 1x1GB for future upgrades. As for 533MHz vs 667MHz, since you're buying new I would get 667MHz.

If you have the 940GML chipset, I would buy whichever RAM (533 vs 667) is cheaper. If you can get 667, get it in case you want to use it in a laptop that does support 667.

Yeah HP won't tell you jack about upgrading it, they want you to buy from them. I think Everest Home Edition will tell you, but the Home edition hasn't been updated in a while so I'm not sure if it will recognize the 940/945 chipsets. I've got a Thinkpad T60 at home with the 945PM, I'll see if it recognizes it later.

 

[abefastcash]

by the way, newbie question but what the hell is that slot that has the thing that pops out on the side of my laptop? when you press it a little rectangle with a 1/4 piece missing comes out, and the symbol aover it looks like a flying piece of paper?

 

[sdifox]

That is your ExpressCard expansion slot. Like PCMCIA, just newer and faster

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
If you have the 945GM chipset, it will support DDR2 667 and dual channel RAM. As I mentioned, the performance difference between single & dual channel RAM is negligible and I would go with the convenience of 1x1GB for future upgrades. As for 533MHz vs 667MHz, since you're buying new I would get 667MHz.

If you have the 940GML chipset, I would buy whichever RAM (533 vs 667) is cheaper. If you can get 667, get it in case you want to use it in a laptop that does support 667.

Yeah HP won't tell you jack about upgrading it, they want you to buy from them. I think Everest Home Edition will tell you, but the Home edition hasn't been updated in a while so I'm not sure if it will recognize the 940/945 chipsets. I've got a Thinkpad T60 at home with the 945PM, I'll see if it recognizes it later.

Well, it got here today. Going into device manager tells me that it has the 945GM express chipset, and it is listed twice there??

Anybody know if this chipset would be upgradeable to a core duo if I so desired to sometime in the fututre?

 

[homegilla]

I'm looking at the hp website's replacement parts for the V5207NR and for the Motherboard it says it has an Intel 940GML chipset. You can't actually order one, but it is listed.

Is it possible that they acually have a 945GM and there's something screwy with the site listing?

Anyone know for sure which chipset it is?
What's the fsb of the motherboard itself?

Thanks in advance.

 

[1EZduzit]

I downloaded both the free version and the trial version of Everest. The free version said "it thought" it had the i945GM/PM northbridge and the Intel 8280 IGBM ICH7-M southbridge.

The Ultimate version says it has the mobile intel Calistoga i940GML and it wouldn't tell me the southbridge, just said "trial version".

The CPU is the 1.463 Yonah, 479 Ball uFCBGA, 478 Pin uFCPGA.

It supports dual channel and is running in dual channel, 128 bit. Both versions tell me that slot 1was is 256 and slot 2 is 512? It it has 2 x 256 ddr running in dual channel?? Does that mean it can only hold 768 meg of DDR2?

So, anybody know if it can be upgraded to a core duo in the future?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Looks like they use the 940GML alright. No Core Duo for you.

 

[1EZduzit]

Yep, with a little poking around in the Everest Ultimate edition it has:

i940GML chipset for the motherboard
i945 Express chipset for video
and the GMA i950 graphics accelrator for DX9c.

At least that's the way it looks to me. I'm still confused about the memory options though??

Oh, it has 470 Ball uFCBGA and 478 Pin uFCPGA socket, whategver that means.

I still like the computer, it's for my daughter and it will do everything she wants.

 

[fbrdphreak]

I would use CPU-Z to verify if the memory is running in dual channel mode. Either way, dual channel won't make a huge difference in performance. It should matter more than with the previous platforms as the Yonah core is more data hungry than before, but since you only have one core then single-channel is more than adequate. Get 1x1GB and move on!

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
fbrdphreak, I need a clarification on something. When I get my laptop and check the chipset, if it has the 945GM chipset, then wouldn't I want to get the 667 MHz sodimm instead of the 533 so I would be ready to upgrade to a core dup cpu when the time comes?

BTW, HP answered me back and all they said was they don't reccomend or support processor upgrade after you purchase.

In general, processor upgrades void any warranty you have on your laptop/desktop. You could throw in 667MHz sodimms when you upgrade to a Core Duo processor, but the 533MHz will be almost as fast since they have lower CAS latency. If you throw the memory into a dual-channel configuration too, the added frequency of the RAM wouldn't make much of a difference as you'll have more than enough bandwidth with dual-channeled 533MHz RAM.

???? 667 is much faster than 533. Maybe the 667 is cas5, while the 533 is cas4. It'll still be faster. It not worht the expense to have anything faster than 4. Why would one-numeric difference in cas outweight 133mhz? If that were the case, overclockers would overvoltage to get lower cas rather than higher speeds. Do you know anyone that does this? (obviously its beneficial to have both, but when it comes to weighing one to an other, someone who overclocks is gonna choose the speed....)
Go get the 667- for the same 1.8v you'd be getting more speed, which may save some cpu cycles, and prolong your battery (albeit by like 15 minutes max on a 6-7 hour charge...)

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: Comdrpopnfresh

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
fbrdphreak, I need a clarification on something. When I get my laptop and check the chipset, if it has the 945GM chipset, then wouldn't I want to get the 667 MHz sodimm instead of the 533 so I would be ready to upgrade to a core dup cpu when the time comes?

BTW, HP answered me back and all they said was they don't reccomend or support processor upgrade after you purchase.

In general, processor upgrades void any warranty you have on your laptop/desktop. You could throw in 667MHz sodimms when you upgrade to a Core Duo processor, but the 533MHz will be almost as fast since they have lower CAS latency. If you throw the memory into a dual-channel configuration too, the added frequency of the RAM wouldn't make much of a difference as you'll have more than enough bandwidth with dual-channeled 533MHz RAM.

???? 667 is much faster than 533. Maybe the 667 is cas5, while the 533 is cas4. It'll still be faster. It not worht the expense to have anything faster than 4. Why would one-numeric difference in cas outweight 133mhz? If that were the case, overclockers would overvoltage to get lower cas rather than higher speeds. Do you know anyone that does this? (obviously its beneficial to have both, but when it comes to weighing one to an other, someone who overclocks is gonna choose the speed....)
Go get the 667- for the same 1.8v you'd be getting more speed, which may save some cpu cycles, and prolong your battery (albeit by like 15 minutes max on a 6-7 hour charge...)

You're way off my friend.

 

[1EZduzit]

Now boys, play nice

I've done enough playing around with SuperPi to know that there isn't a lot of difference in having a faster FSb but slower timings. It may make a little differnce, but if your not calculating the orbit of the moon or some other intensive task I don't think it matters much. Just my .02

 

[Comdrpopnfresh]

okay. But at what point does that stop making true sense? For that matter, why not go down to 400mhz for the cas3, or 233 for cas2.5? And about when core2 laptops ship, with 800 and 1066mhz ram? The cas there will likely by 5,6 and maybe even 7. From a desktop, overclocking perspective, I've always absorbed the view from others and myself that going from 400mhz, to even 520 mhz (the case with my desktop's ddr1) the speed increase (and i guess with a 1000mhz amd htt bus its different than laptops...) was worth going from 2 to 2.5, and even 3 to go higher.... I don't want to argue, I just want to hear why cas matters so much for a laptop vs desktop (I'm guess its because the HT bus on amd chipsets isn't exactly access or latency deprived, where as with core and core2, the lack of an onboard controller makes communication speeds and access times more important [hear core2 is slower than core on memory access, accept for reads, because it has some beefed up intelligent read-ahead compared to core1), Just wanna learn here.... thats all

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: Comdrpopnfresh
okay. But at what point does that stop making true sense? For that matter, why not go down to 400mhz for the cas3, or 233 for cas2.5? And about when core2 laptops ship, with 800 and 1066mhz ram? The cas there will likely by 5,6 and maybe even 7. From a desktop, overclocking perspective, I've always absorbed the view from others and myself that going from 400mhz, to even 520 mhz (the case with my desktop's ddr1) the speed increase (and i guess with a 1000mhz amd htt bus its different than laptops...) was worth going from 2 to 2.5, and even 3 to go higher.... I don't want to argue, I just want to hear why cas matters so much for a laptop vs desktop (I'm guess its because the HT bus on amd chipsets isn't exactly access or latency deprived, where as with core and core2, the lack of an onboard controller makes communication speeds and access times more important [hear core2 is slower than core on memory access, accept for reads, because it has some beefed up intelligent read-ahead compared to core1), Just wanna learn here.... thats all

CAS doesn't matter. Really it is the architecture that will make a difference in how RAM clock/CAS affect performance. Intel's memory controller is integrated into the chipset, so it has a relatively high latency. Before Core Duo, Intel's mobile architecture wasn't terribly data hungry over the bus so memory performance didn't make a big difference. On Dothan, dual channel vs single made almost zero impact.

Yonah is more data hungry, so the higher FSB makes sense as does running synchronous (i.e. same speed as FSB) RAM. The CAS latency won't make a noticeable difference since the latency of the memory controller will be greater. Instead higher memory clocks will help performance some, but my guess is that it won't help a lot. 533 vs 667 shouldn't be a big difference, but considering the prices are similar for each there is no reason not to get 667.

We'll be doing an article comparing single & dual channel configurations on Yonah shortly.