DDR upgrade fail

[KAZANI]

Recently upgraded to Windows 7 and my PC's 2x1GB of Kingston DDR-400 wasn't enough for my needs, so I bought 2 more 1GB modules of Corsair to throw in. The problem is the PC won't turn on with all its 4 RAM banks filled. I have tried every combination of 4 modules, to no avail. Any combination of 3 modules works. 2 modules combinations also work perfectly in dual channel mode. This means the Corsair RAM I bought is in good condition and compatible with the old Kingston. Should I return the new RAM and get a refund, then try my luck ordering identical Kingston modules or return only the one module and resign to 3GB in single channel mode?

PC:
Athlon X2 3800
Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI
2xKingston KVR400X64C3A/1G
2xCorsair VS1GB400C3

 

[Rifter]

did you try resetting the bios?

 

[KAZANI]

did you try resetting the bios?

Yes, with no effect.

 

[Termie]

One of the problems I've had trying to upgrade ram on older motherboards is that they are set to 1T timing (on Intel - not sure if it's the same nomenclature on AMD), which made it impossible to run 4GB of DDR2. I see you have an older motherboard and you're running DDR-1. Might want to check if there's a 1T-2T setting (the old Intel motherboard I tried this on didn't even have a 2T setting). If you can't drop to 2T, or if you do and it still doesn't work, try setting your timings very loose on your 2GB and then reinstalling the extra sticks (maybe raise the voltage a bit too). These tweaks might allow the 4GB to run.

 

[KAZANI]

One of the problems I've had trying to upgrade ram on older motherboards is that they are set to 1T timing (on Intel - not sure if it's the same nomenclature on AMD), which made it impossible to run 4GB of DDR2. I see you have an older motherboard and you're running DDR-1. Might want to check if there's a 1T-2T setting (the old Intel motherboard I tried this on didn't even have a 2T setting). If you can't drop to 2T, or if you do and it still doesn't work, try setting your timings very loose on your 2GB and then reinstalling the extra sticks (maybe raise the voltage a bit too). These tweaks might allow the 4GB to run.

My computer won't even power on, so wouldn't this fact make the BIOS totally irrelevant?

 

[Termie]

My computer won't even power on, so wouldn't this fact make the BIOS totally irrelevant?

Not if you set the memory timings with 2 sticks in.

 

[Rifter]

Not if you set the memory timings with 2 sticks in.

yeah do this, boot with 2 sticks loosen the timings as much as you can then install all 4 and boot and see what happens.

 

[KAZANI]

OK, I gave a shot at those arcane memory timing settings in BIOS: still nothing!
The weird thing is, after each failed pressing of the power button, as soon as I remove a RAM module the computer automatically comes back to life. Anyway, meddling with the BIOS gave me a chance to notice that when running 3 modules they default to 333Mhz DDR, which means I'm gonna return the Corsairs. Bummer, now I'm between going for another pair of Kingstons or toughing it out with what I got until I scrape some money for a major system overhaul. :\

 

[Blain]

Your MB manual states that when using all your DIMM slots, all your memory modules must be either double sided, single sided, but not mixed.
Are both sets of memory the same?

BTW, Kingston KVR400X64SC3A/1G are Sodimm modules. You must have made a mistake when listing them as running on your GA-K8N Pro-SLI MB.

 

[KAZANI]

Your MB manual states that when using all your DIMM slots, all your memory modules must be either double sided, single sided, but not mixed.
Are both sets of memory the same?

The modules have the same chip layout on both sides, if that's what you mean. I don't trust the accuracy of the MB manual since in p.17 it has a table with unbootable DIMM configurations which include any 3 module configuration but which I've tried and found they actually work.

BTW, Kingston KVR400X64SC3A/1G are Sodimm modules. You must have made a mistake when listing them as running on your GA-K8N Pro-SLI MB.

Indeed, it's KVR400X64C3A/1G.

 

[wanderer27]

I don't remember the exact details, but the 939 Socket has/had lot's of issues with 4 DIMM/4GB.

I'm not sure if it was a Memory Controller on the CPU or a MB BIOS issue.
2T was definitely a factor for less than 4GB, but I don't know if 4GB was ever solved.

You should probably dig through the 939 threads (if they're still loaded) on here to find out if there was a final solution.

 

[TemjinGold]

Do you have the latest Bios Version for your mobo?

 

[wanderer27]

Do you have the latest Bios Version for your mobo?

I think I've got 1007.

It's not the very latest, it just works for what I need so there's no point in fooling with it.

I've only got two DIMM's @1GB each (2GB total), so I haven't run up against the 4GB/4DIMM issue.

 

[RebateMonger]

Motherboards using DDR1 had all kinds of issues with memory module timing, module count limits, and memory bank limits, depending on the chipset and motherboard maker.

Regarding the change in timing to 333 MHz, there were some motherboards that forced timings from 400 MHz down to 333 MHz when more than two memory modules were present. The Dell 400SC (with the high-end Intel 875 chipset) did this.

You may just have to be satisifed with a 3 GB memory limit, which folks have been living with for many years. Heck, I don't have a single desktop that has more than 3 GB of effective memory.

 

[jiffylube1024]

I think I've got 1007.

It's not the very latest, it just works for what I need so there's no point in fooling with it.

I've only got two DIMM's @1GB each (2GB total), so I haven't run up against the 4GB/4DIMM issue.

Are your memory chips all double sided (memory chips on both sides of the RAM stick)? Most DDR mobos won't run with 4x double sided sticks.

As others have said, make sure the BIOS is up to date and make sure to set the "Command Rate" to 2T (sometimes called 2N) from 1T (1N). There's very few mobos out there that can run 1T with more than 2 memory sticks of any density.
-----------

You can also try running Memtest86 (make a bootable CD - make sure to use the older 3.4 version because the new one doesn't support more than 2GB):

http://www.memtest.org/

If memtest returns any errors, then it's either the RAM or your settings.
------

Oh yeah, also try loosening the memory timings. While the sticks may be rated to something like 2.5-3-3-7, try running them at loose timings, like 3-4-4-8 2T and see if that works.

Plus, you should be bumping up the RAM voltage at least +0.1V. Most boards need a bit extra with 4 sticks...

 

[KAZANI]

UPDATE
The shop wouldn't take the Corsairs back, so I was forced to scour the web for clues to a possible solution. I found one can activate hidden settings in the motherboard's BIOS by pressing Ctrl+F1 from the main menu. This brings up a whole new menu of advanced chipset features which contains a submenu of DRAM configuration and in there exists an option for H/W MEM Remap [4G RAM support]. I enabled the option and put all 4 modules in place but the damned thing still wouldn't start. I tried manually setting timing to 2T (although the existing Auto defaults to 2T with more than 2 modules) and increasing the DDR voltage up to 0.2Volts but . So I figured I'm left here with 90€ worth of DDR duds and no guarantees that a similar expenditure for Kingston modules would fix things, I took the gamble to cold start with 3 DIMMS and, as soon as the computer powered, quickly put the fourth stick in place and hopefully force the BIOS to recognise it. I understood this could possibly fry both RAM and m/b but I was so frustrated I was looking for an excuse to make a radical system upgrade. So I tried that and (A-HA!) the PC went all the way to Windows 7 desktop. System properties reported only part of the 4GB but CPU-Z listed all four DIMMS. From that point on, it was trial and error. I had to load default settings in BIOS, ditching DDR voltage increase along the way. Where I am now is having all 4GB stable at DDR-333 (Athlon 64 architecture limitation) dual channel 2.5-3-3-7 2T. My only problem is the PC still can't do a cold start (restart is ok) and I will have to do the 4th DIMM in/out drill whenever the need arises. Luckily this is an always-on machine, so I hope I'll be able to live with this annoyance. Feel free to suggest anything though.

 

[Termie]

Wow...that's creative. I guess my suggestion is don't turn the computer off!

This reminds me of old films of cars needing to be pushed down the road as someone cranks the motor before the car would actually run on its own.

By the way, system properties showing only part of the 4GB (3.25GB, perhaps?) is a symptom of having the wrong remap setting. Although CPU-z sees the memory, you are not taking full advantage of it. I'd go back into the BIOS and switch that setting (disable the option?).

 

[KAZANI]

By the way, system properties showing only part of the 4GB (3.25GB, perhaps?) is a symptom of having the wrong remap setting. Although CPU-z sees the memory, you are not taking full advantage of it. I'd go back into the BIOS and switch that setting (disable the option?).

During the first trials Windows would see anything from 2, 3.25, 3.5GB. Now it's steadily at 4GB both during POST and in Windows 7. I've tested with memtest and GIMPS, all appears well.

 

[Athadeus]

Glad you got it working.

For the equivalent of 110 euro here you could have got an Athlon II X4 640, MSI 785GM-P45 AM3 785G mATX Motherboard, and CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model TW3X4G1333C9A G. Crazy compy industry!

 

[KAZANI]

Glad you got it working.

For the equivalent of 110 euro here you could have got an Athlon II X4 640, MSI 785GM-P45 AM3 785G mATX Motherboard, and CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model TW3X4G1333C9A G. Crazy compy industry!

UPDATE:
It turns out, although this configuration appears to be stable in aforementioned tests, in windows' built-in memory test there were problems and in everyday usage these were causing BSODs. I had to go back to using 2GB, but they just can't keep up with Windows 7 (although, I don't hit 100% physical mem utilisation, switching between tasks is very slow). It looks like, after 5 years, I'm in the market for a CPU-motherboard-RAM upgrade.

Budget: 300 (that's euros, but if you're in the US you may as well consider that to be dollars, with all the price gouging that's going on here in Europe)

Needs:
1. power efficiency and quiet operation (this is an always-on HTPC located in my bedroom)
2. HD playback (especially concerned with a good onboard sound codec and a CPU that is comfortable with web-based 1080p content)
3. moderate gaming, mainly CPU-intensive
4. 2X4GB of RAM (hoping this will meet my multitasking needs for another 4-5 years)
5. No overclocking

 

[Termie]

UPDATE:
It turns out, although this configuration appears to be stable in aforementioned tests, in windows' built-in memory test there were problems and in everyday usage these were causing BSODs. I had to go back to using 2GB, but they just can't keep up with Windows 7 (although, I don't hit 100% physical mem utilisation, switching between tasks is very slow). It looks like, after 5 years, I'm in the market for a CPU-motherboard-RAM upgrade.

Budget: 300 (that's euros, but if you're in the US you may as well consider that to be dollars, with all the price gouging that's going on here in Europe)

Needs:
1. power efficiency and quiet operation (this is an always-on HTPC located in my bedroom)
2. HD playback (especially concerned with a good onboard sound codec and a CPU that is comfortable with web-based 1080p content)
3. moderate gaming, mainly CPU-intensive
4. 2X4GB of RAM (hoping this will meet my multitasking needs for another 4-5 years)
5. No overclocking

Go for a Sandy Bridge i3-2100 and a micro ATX motherboard. The chip is dual-core and will run amazingly cool, but thanks to its new design, it's very, very fast for a dual-core. Here it is in the US for $125: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115078.

A motherboard will cost as little as $70US: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157237. If you want modern features like HDMI output, USB3, and SATA3, then you'll need to buy a higher-end board.

Keep in mind that the i3-2100 has built-in graphics, which is great for your purposes (CPU-intensive games). If it doesn't work for newer games, you can always add a graphics card later. The built-in graphics are close to a Radeon HD4350 is power, which is a low-end HTPC card.

For memory, all you need is DDR3-1333, which is fairly inexpensive, around $80US for 2x4GB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231422.

While some may argue for an $80 Athlon triple-core instead of the Intel i3, there's no question that the i3-2100 will absolutely stomp an Athlon while running much cooler, and is a much better investment. Bench: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=189

 

[hectorsm]

I had to upgrade also from my previous system for the same reason.

My previous system was a Option 165 with and DFI Lanparty NF4 MB. I was never able to get 4 dimm on that board to work reliably. I tried different brands, adjusting speed, timings and voltage but it will either not boot or it will be unstable.

I finally gave the system to my son and build my current core i7 system.

 

[bryanl]

Kingston has been known to replace troublesome RAM with RAM that's much more compatible than normal, but to get it you have to speak with their higher level tech support to get it.

I suspect the only way to get all 4 modules to work is by reprogramming the SPDs with slightly slower settings, especially for command time.

 

[KAZANI]

Go for a Sandy Bridge i3-2100 and a micro ATX motherboard. The chip is dual-core and will run amazingly cool, but thanks to its new design, it's very, very fast for a dual-core. Here it is in the US for $125: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115078.

A motherboard will cost as little as $70US: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157237. If you want modern features like HDMI output, USB3, and SATA3, then you'll need to buy a higher-end board.

Keep in mind that the i3-2100 has built-in graphics, which is great for your purposes (CPU-intensive games). If it doesn't work for newer games, you can always add a graphics card later. The built-in graphics are close to a Radeon HD4350 is power, which is a low-end HTPC card.

For memory, all you need is DDR3-1333, which is fairly inexpensive, around $80US for 2x4GB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231422.

While some may argue for an $80 Athlon triple-core instead of the Intel i3, there's no question that the i3-2100 will absolutely stomp an Athlon while running much cooler, and is a much better investment. Bench: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=189

Thanks for replying. A few thoughts:
- I should have mentioned I already have a graphics card, which is a fanless Radeon HD2600 Pro. Is it superior to the i3's GPU?
- I would like to have a better audio codec and gigabit LAN on the m/b. I have found Gigabyte GA-H67MA-D2H-B3 for 110€ but I became a little perplexed as I stumbled upon this. The first just mentions "Intel HD Graphics support" whereas the other boasts some fancy "Intel® HD Graphics Core 2000/3000 Enhanced Visual Features" which leaves me wondering whether I need the right m/b to fully exploit the i3's video decoding potential.

 

[Termie]

Thanks for replying. A few thoughts:
- I should have mentioned I already have a graphics card, which is a fanless Radeon HD2600 Pro. Is it superior to the i3's GPU?
- I would like to have a better audio codec and gigabit LAN on the m/b. I have found Gigabyte GA-H67MA-D2H-B3 for 110€ but I became a little perplexed as I stumbled upon this. The first just mentions "Intel HD Graphics support" whereas the other boasts some fancy "Intel® HD Graphics Core 2000/3000 Enhanced Visual Features" which leaves me wondering whether I need the right m/b to fully exploit the i3's video decoding potential.

Your 2600 Pro is faster than the onboard graphics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...rd-geforce-gtx-590-radeon-hd-6990,2879-7.html.

I don't know whether the Gigabyte's audio codec is good or not, but both those boards seem to have the same one. Also, both would support the same Intel graphics - don't worry about the marketing speak or lack thereof. But if you plug in your 2600 Pro, you won't be using the onboard graphics anyway.