DDR clarification request -- 760 vs. KT133a; PC1600 DDR SDRAM Questions

[Myrddin]

I am currently wringing my hands over whether to invest my Christmas $$ into a 760 DDR mobo or a kt133a SDR mobo, when (if ever) they become available. I currently have a Soyo 5EMA+ w/ AMD K6-2 500 and a GeForce 2 GTS 32 MB DDR card w/ 128 MB of PC100 RAM. I am rather unhappy with the RAM as it consists of two rather generic 64 MB sticks that I find marginal to begin with, so I am looking at a RAM/CPU/Mobo.

I also see reported on TomsHardware that Crucial is selling PC1600 RAM at PC133 prices, such as 128 MB PC1600 for about $77 + $5 shipping.

(1) I was excited about that until doubt crept in. My understanding of PC1600 DDR SDRAM is that it operates at '200' MHz. Does that mean that the CPU I pair with it is going to be limited to a 100/200 FSB? To me, the whole point of going with a DDR SDRAM motherboard is to benefit not just from DDR, but also from the 133/266.

(2) So, if I buy one of the new 133/266 T-Birds, would I have to keep the FSB at 100/200 if it was paired with PC1600 RAM?

If so, then I view my only alternatives as being a KT133a w/ PC150 RAM or a 760 w/ PC2100 (a bit more expensive based on my understanding of current PC2100 DDR SDRAM prices).

(3) Currently most sites I have seen show a <10% increase between DDR and KT133a setups. These all evaluate current software. Can future software be specifically written to take advantage of DDR in a way that would greatly expand that percentage? Or will this percentage stay steady until second-gen DDR chipsets come out?

Any thoughts people can share with me on this? Am I just totally confused? I have been very dissappointed with the KT133a coverage as far as evaluating its performance/potential against DDR systems both now and over the next 12 months.

I tried throwing some numbers in here to segment my thoughts so responses could hopefully address them. Thanks in advance for any info provided.

Finally, in the editorial section of this post, Toms Hardware is reporting that the KT133a has been delayed, and it was reported recently that 760 motherboards were delayed due to a minor redesign. No one seems to have any idea when we will actually be seeing 760 and KT133a motherboards. It is bizzare to me that no one, particularly 'journalists' always crying about 'journalistic integrity', hammer Intel but these delays by VIA and AMD seem totally unnoticed and warrant only throwaway notations in articles as if it isn't important.

 

[eugovector]

Me too,

I'm returning to school in a week without a computer (crapped out the day before xmas). I need to buy a new one but have trouble justifying a 100FSB Athlon on a KT133 when all of these wonderful things are just around the corner. The computer that I will be buying needs to last me several years. I can't afford to wait forever, should I just bite the bullet and buy KT133 or is KT133A and Athlon133 really right around the corner?

 

[fkloster]

Yup. Dr. Pabst never shows bias in his articles either

 

[Myrddin]

You definitely need to wait a bit. For maximum product cycle out of an AMD system you'll probably want to wait for the 760 chipset motherboards to be available. Then if you want, to save costs, you can get a standard 100 FSB duron or t-bird and PC1600 RAM (if I understand correctly how these things work together) and then down the road when 133/266 T-Birds and PC2100 RAM comes down in price you can upgrade without having to replace the motherboard.

If you go with a KT133a, you are saving money on the mobo and RAM, but you will have to replace them later. If you are going to go with a KT133a, you may want to wait for the 133/266 T-birds to come out so when you decide to switch to DDR you only have to replace the mobo and RAM.

Finally some motherboards are going to support both DDR SDRAM and SDR SDRAM, so if you go that route, you can save on RAM by using PC133 or PC150 and upgrade later. I hear ASUS has a board like this that should be available, but the reason I am hesitant to recommend this is that mixing and matching RAM types with chipsets might cause trouble, either compatability or decreased performance compared to boards that just have DDR capability. If you decide to go this route, wait not just for the board release but also for someone to do some comprehensive testing before purchasing.

Either going KT133a or 760, you probably won't have the system components in your hands until at least 2/1/01 unless you go with the IWILL DDR board which people say the ALi chipset has performance issues compared to the 760 chipset so I would stay away from that. I got burned bad by an ALi socket 7 chipset so I won't go back to them if I can help it.

So many options, but one thing for sure: wait. Do not buy a standard KT133 chipset motherboard IMO at this time.

 

[Howard]

1) Remember, you can overclock DDR memory just like SDR. It's only 33MHz higher.

2) Same thing, if you get that, you can overclock the memory, and if it is stable, you can use it as PC2100.

3) No, all DDR does is just increase the memory bandwidth.

4)... Whoops

 

[vm]

bump


wanna hear more opinions, i'm in the same situation..

 

[DaddyG]

KT133A solutions offer good FSB overclocking. Dr TOM suggests that the 133A mobos are being delayed because of a late spec change by AMD that 1.5gig TBIRDS need 46amps !!. I don't understand how this revelation will effect only the KT133A mobos. This is a power-regulation/ power supply issue. 46 amps at 1.8v is more than 80watts !!

 

[Myrddin]

Well it is useful to know that we're not going to be taken by surprise by a QIII or UT patch that doubles frame rates with DDR boards.

Is there any reason to think video cards will produce higher frame rates with a DDR system over an SDR system with technologies like AGP 4x?

 

[Soccerman]

btw, I still recommend getting the DDR boards. simple reason. they ARE still faster. the only reason I would go for a KT133A is becuase I have loads of SDRAM (which I don't have) to use on it, and I don't want to keep any of it on the current machine I have running.

hmm.. I gotta convince my dad to get RAM.. it's SOOOOO cheap!

the system I'm making for a friend SHOULD have DDR SDRAM when I finally make it..

 

[Myrddin]

I dunno, everyone else seems to get one free 'bump' per thread, so I should get one too!

But I feel guilty so I'll at least ask a new question: I see reviewers overclocking AMD cpus in most reviews. I have seen them test chips on 133/266 boards (760 and KT133a boards) that I think were originally 100/200 CPUs, they just up the FSB and drop the multiplier.

Will this be pretty standard fare for 133/266 DDR boards?

Finally, Does anyone know when the hell we are going to see some 760 boards on the market?? It's killing me!!

 

[Soccerman]

well MSI has the K7T Master, that's gonna have the 760.. Tom's Hardware uses it to represent the 760 platform.

you notice that MSI all the sudden has gotten alot of attention lately? good motherboards, not so expensive compared to ASUS, and ABIT. it's no wonder they're doing good!

 

[Nastimus]

I'm in the same boat as well. I'm pretty much gonna wait for the 760 DDR mobo get me a 256 stick of PC2100 and get a 1.2 133/266 Athlon or whatever. I might as well wait for the NV20 also. I'm basicly just gonna wait and get the best I can get and since this stuff is like a month away it would be foolish to jump in now.