DC Auto Show: Sat in the Subaru BRZ

[KeithP]

I like the BRZ, but I don't know if 200 hp and a mere 170 lb-ft of torque....

Actually, it is only 150 lb-ft of torque.

-KeithP

 

[Safeway]

Actually, it is only 150 lb-ft of torque.

-KeithP

A Nissan Sentra and Ford Focus have similar/better hp and torque figures and similar weights. Seriously.

 

[fbrdphreak]

I like the BRZ, but I don't know if 200 hp and a mere 170 lb-ft of torque are sufficient figures. Sure, it weights 2670 lbs, but I'd like to have seen 280 hp and 250 lb-ft.

Maybe Subaru will come out with an STI version that does produce 300 hp stock. Until then, that marketshare is going to buy something else.

You seem to be missing the point. The BRZ is not about a huge power to weight ratio. Subaru isn't trying to compete with the STi here, they are competing with the Miata. This is a car focused on the driving experience, not about "wheel spin."

You want something with low weight, 300HP, and great handling: get an STi.

A Nissan Sentra and Ford Focus have similar/better hp and torque figures and similar weights. Seriously.

So drive each of them back to back against the BRZ and tell me which you enjoy driving more.

Jesus people, everything is not about raw power.

 

[NutBucket]

If you all want me to do a close-up inspection of the thing with more pics, I can always go back. Anyone want to PP me $12 admission? 🙂

It shouldn't be too long before they're at dealers. They've already been spotted on car carriers on LA freeways.

 

[Safeway]

You seem to be missing the point. The BRZ is not about a huge power to weight ratio. Subaru isn't trying to compete with the STi here, they are competing with the Miata. This is a car focused on the driving experience, not about "wheel spin."

You want something with low weight, 300HP, and great handling: get an STi.

So drive each of them back to back against the BRZ and tell me which you enjoy driving more.

Jesus people, everything is not about raw power.

Agreed, not everything is about power.

But I still think that this is insufficient power and torque for the stated purpose.

 

[Imported]

Agreed, not everything is about power.

But I still think that this is insufficient power and torque for the stated purpose.

Agreed. I'd love 250/250 which I think would be reasonably achievable by slapping on a turbo.

 

[Bignate603]

Agreed, not everything is about power.

But I still think that this is insufficient power and torque for the stated purpose.

The Miata seems to be doing just fine and it's power/weight ratio is worse.

 

[AMCRambler]

Yes, how did they teleport it from detroit to DC without going through the states in between? (sorry, couldn't resist).

Ummm by plane?

 

[brufleth]

A Nissan Sentra and Ford Focus have similar/better hp and torque figures and similar weights. Seriously.

BRZ
HP 200
TRQ 151
Weight 2700
HP/weight 0.074074074074074


Nissan Sentra
HP 140
TRQ 147
Weight 2906
HP/weight 0.048176187198899


Ford Focus
HP 160
TRQ 146
Weight 2907
HP/weight 0.055039559683522

Significantly different power/weight ratios. Slightly lower peak torques. Higher weights. Not to mention they won't have a six speed transmission to use that power as effectively and they won't handle nearly as well. Apples and oranges as far as cars go.

But go ahead and get a Focus or Sentra if that's your thing.

 

[exar333]

BRZ
HP 200
TRQ 151
Weight 2700
HP/weight 0.074074074074074


Nissan Sentra
HP 140
TRQ 147
Weight 2906
HP/weight 0.048176187198899


Ford Focus
HP 160
TRQ 146
Weight 2907
HP/weight 0.055039559683522

Significantly different power/weight ratios. Slightly lower peak torques. Higher weights. Not to mention they won't have a six speed transmission to use that power as effectively and they won't handle nearly as well. Apples and oranges as far as cars go.

But go ahead and get a Focus or Sentra if that's your thing.

I see it as more of successor to the Honda Prelude, but with RWD. The weight is similar (2700lb vs 2800 4th gen) and power is relatively the same as the 200hp VTEC.

That's 'enough' power, but I would have rather seen a de-tuned 200hp/200lb/ft Turbo4. That would be a LOT more fun to tinker with and mod, with a much better torque curve. That would be simply a fantastic car with no compromises at all.

 

[ballmode]

Just got back from the subaru dealer today and grabbed a small BRZ booklet.

Base BRZ Curb Weight - 2762 lbs

 

[sjwaste]

My local dealer is a top 20, so I'm thinking they'll get one as early as anyone. I'll try to drive it and report back. We can argue about numbers all we want, and I'm as skeptical as anyone about this really fitting with the Subaru brand, but I'm open to being impressed.

If I have room for a 4th car, it's going to be an MR2, and they know it over there.

 

[JCH13]

So drive each of them back to back against the BRZ and tell me which you enjoy driving more.

Jesus people, everything is not about raw power.

This.

Agreed, not everything is about power.

But I still think that this is insufficient power and torque for the stated purpose.

I'm fairly certain that the engineers and designers making the FT86/BRZ didn't completely mess up their intended design goal. Nor did they haphazardly slap this vehicle together. It shows a very clear design intent, even if it's not what every person thinks they want from the car.

From Tetsuya Tada on the purpose of the FT86 (aka BRZ):

Instead, the focus for the car is for it to be "A sports car that anyone can enjoy that will evolve along with the customer."

[...]

Furthermore, Mr. Tada says that if the car were to climb higher upmarket in terms of price and performance, it would necessitate installing further electronic safety limiters like many other modern sports cars. In other reports we've read that the emphasis is on a relatively raw driving experience free of electronic intervention. Mr. Tada elaborates that "Its performance isn't something that's measured numerically, but in how the driver enjoys themself because they feel the car is intuitive."

Feel free to read the whole article here: http://www.jcarblog.com/2011/11/27/tetsuya-tada-explains-the-purpose-of-the-toyota-ft-86/

 

[GTaudiophile]

I agree with Mr. Tada 100%

 

[exar333]

I agree with Mr. Tada 100%

Sounds like a bunch of crap IMHO. An extra 50-75 more ft/lbs of torque would make the car MUCH better.

You are talking about upping the HP/TQ to that of the GTI, hardly a 'super sports' car. The BRZ is already low, and with well-designed suspension and shocks, ~200hp/220tq is not so much that electro-nannies are needed.

If you buy that, I have some land I can sell you.

 

[Throckmorton]

This.



I'm fairly certain that the engineers and designers making the FT86/BRZ didn't completely mess up their intended design goal. Nor did they haphazardly slap this vehicle together. It shows a very clear design intent, even if it's not what every person thinks they want from the car.

From Tetsuya Tada on the purpose of the FT86 (aka BRZ):

Instead, the focus for the car is for it to be "A sports car that anyone can enjoy that will evolve along with the customer."

[...]

Furthermore, Mr. Tada says that if the car were to climb higher upmarket in terms of price and performance, it would necessitate installing further electronic safety limiters like many other modern sports cars. In other reports we've read that the emphasis is on a relatively raw driving experience free of electronic intervention. Mr. Tada elaborates that "Its performance isn't something that's measured numerically, but in how the driver enjoys themself because they feel the car is intuitive."

Feel free to read the whole article here: http://www.jcarblog.com/2011/11/27/tetsuya-tada-explains-the-purpose-of-the-toyota-ft-86/

Its price is right between a Mustang V6 and Mustang GT... And it has a power/weight ratio worse than both of them. Technically the chassis is much better than the Mustang's so why can't it be a good sports car with at least the same power/weight?

 

[Throckmorton]

Agreed. I'd love 250/250 which I think would be reasonably achievable by slapping on a turbo.

Is there room for a turbo? Subaru says no. The flat 4 horrible for space efficiency. That's why it has struts, to make room for the wide engine.

 

[JCH13]

Sounds like a bunch of crap IMHO. An extra 50-75 more ft/lbs of torque would make the car MUCH better.

You are talking about upping the HP/TQ to that of the GTI, hardly a 'super sports' car. The BRZ is already low, and with well-designed suspension and shocks, ~200hp/220tq is not so much that electro-nannies are needed.

If you buy that, I have some land I can sell you.

That's an awfully bold statement about a car that hasn't even hit dealer lots yet and very few outside of the press have driven.

Its price is right between a Mustang V6 and Mustang GT... And it has a power/weight ratio worse than both of them. Technically the chassis is much better than the Mustang's so why can't it be a good sports car with at least the same power/weight?

Lose the power obsession, it is merely one facet of car's performance. Some of the best sports cars ever have had similar or worse power/weight distribution. NA/NB/NC Miata, FB/FC RX7, MK1/MK3 MR2, Lotus Elan, E30 M3... the list goes on...