Daycare provider who hanged a toddler in basement and ran over two men with her minivan sentenced to probation

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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Can someone explain to me why some jackasses in this thread are acting like she's gotten off completely free? Did you fucking clowns bother to read the article or are you just deciding that you'd rather spout bullshit and fuck things like facts. I certainly expect that type of behavior from the OP and the someonesmind since they literally never know what they're talking about and just make shit up to rage about, but some of you others, might want to wait before you start your clown routines.

They haven't even detailed the terms of her probation yet, and she'll be under house arrest until they do. Plus she'll be on probation for a 183 month stayed sentence, which means they'll have ample opportunity to possibly consider your solution of prison.

Good point. We don't yet know the details of her probation. He could still require that she receive inpatient treatment.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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What conclusion did I jump to? I just asked a question.

The fact that you're claiming she got off when they haven't even detailed her probation yet? No clue why you're raging like a dumbfuck in this thread when you clearly had not even read the fucking article. Not that this is the first time you've done this type of shit. But next time at least give us a couple honks of the nose before so we'll know you're going full clown.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
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What conclusion did I jump to? I just asked a question.
You alluded that I was okay with abused people killing innocents, which was not relevant to the question I asked.

I alluded that you've never been in an abusive relationship, which was relevant to your judgement on appropriate behavior while in an abusive relationship.

My point was, people do fucked up shit when they're pushed to a breaking point. Their are public safety concerns with a person who was pushed this far, but 'throw them in jail and melt the key' isn't the right course of action. If this isn't your stance, you could have clarified that in your response to @fleshconsumed which had a more reasonable reaction regarding this situation.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,580
3,059
136
I'm going to guess that regular blood tests and therapy sessions to make sure she's taking her meds are part of her probation.

It's funny how the bible thumpers have plenty of solutions for this mentally ill woman but If she had gunned down a bunch of people there would be "nothing to be done burger" topped by "thoughts and prayers" with a side of "that's the price of freedom fries".
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
You alluded that I was okay with abused people killing innocents, which was not relevant to the question I asked.

I alluded that you've never been in an abusive relationship, which was relevant to your judgement on appropriate behavior while in an abusive relationship.

My point was, people do fucked up shit when they're pushed to a breaking point. Their are public safety concerns with a person who was pushed this far, but 'throw them in jail and melt the key' isn't the right course of action. If this isn't your stance, you could have clarified that in your response to @fleshconsumed which had a more reasonable reaction regarding this situation.
You alluded to the idea that being in an abusive relationship justifies violence against uninvolved people. I agree that abusive relationships can cause people to snap, but I don't think that is justification for harming others. I think it probably is justification for a mental facility vs jail or other treatment facility, but not probation. And @darkswordsman17 is right that we don't know the terms yet, so I'm probably jumping the gun in judging the outcome.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
146
You alluded to the idea that being in an abusive relationship justifies violence against uninvolved people. I agree that abusive relationships can cause people to snap, but I don't think that is justification for harming others. I think it probably is justification for a mental facility vs jail or other treatment facility, but not probation. And @darkswordsman17 is right that we don't know the terms yet, so I'm probably jumping the gun in judging the outcome.
You were jumping the gun, and I was doing no such thing, you assumed that I was. My intent was to further discussion and get you to think things through before jumping to conclusions, which you have done repeatedly over the last page.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
The fact that you're claiming she got off when they haven't even detailed her probation yet? No clue why you're raging like a dumbfuck in this thread when you clearly had not even read the fucking article. Not that this is the first time you've done this type of shit. But next time at least give us a couple honks of the nose before so we'll know you're going full clown.
I'm "raging" because I have a toddler in daycare and have basically zero sympathy for any daycare worker that harms a kid in their care.

I've also yet to see you ever attempt to have an intelligent debate on this forum, you go into full rage mode against any that disagrees with you in any thread.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
You were jumping the gun, and I was doing no such thing, you assumed that I was. My intent was to further discussion and get you to think things through before jumping to conclusions, which you have done repeatedly over the last page.
I'll freely admit that we don't have anywhere near all the details and likely never will. I also admit that I didn't think about the probation being more than a slap on the wrist. But people were also happily jumping to the conclusion that her abuse (which also wasn't detailed) was a major mitigating factor in her attempts to murder unrelated people.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,284
13,581
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I'll freely admit that we don't have anywhere near all the details and likely never will. I also admit that I didn't think about the probation being more than a slap on the wrist. But people were also happily jumping to the conclusion that her abuse (which also wasn't detailed) was a major mitigating factor in her attempts to murder unrelated people.
I mean, it probably was a major mitigating factor. That doesn't make it right and certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it, but we need to have a general understanding that people don't act in a vacuum, and that people aren't just 'crazy' or 'bad people'. There's usually a trigger of some kind unless they have an extreme mental illness which makes them prone to random outbursts of violence. This woman may never recover from what happened to her or what she subsequently did, doesn't mean we shouldn't try though, if only so that we can have a better understanding of what pushes people to places like this.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,519
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You alluded to the idea that being in an abusive relationship justifies violence against uninvolved people. I agree that abusive relationships can cause people to snap, but I don't think that is justification for harming others. I think it probably is justification for a mental facility vs jail or other treatment facility, but not probation. And @darkswordsman17 is right that we don't know the terms yet, so I'm probably jumping the gun in judging the outcome.
I think one problem is your use of the word "justification" in this context. Getting probation doesn't mean anyone thinks she was justified. It is actually the opposite, that the judge decided the circumstances did not justify incarceration.

People need to stop thinking of sentences as punishment and start thinking of them as the minimum solution required to prevent a second occurrence.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
I mean, it probably was a major mitigating factor. That doesn't make it right and certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it, but we need to have a general understanding that people don't act in a vacuum, and that people aren't just 'crazy' or 'bad people'. There's usually a trigger of some kind unless they have an extreme mental illness which makes them prone to random outbursts of violence. This woman may never recover from what happened to her or what she subsequently did, doesn't mean we shouldn't try though, if only so that we can have a better understanding of what pushes people to places like this.
I agree that people don't act in a vacuum, there is always something leading up to why someone committed a crime some much bigger than others. I do think it is important to understand these causes so we as a society can learn how to better prevent future events.

That being said, no normal sane person wakes up one day and decides to kill someone else's child. No sane person attempts to run other people over with a car. There is always some trigger, some chain of events that lead up to it. However, the people that actually cross that line have shown they are a risk to society. The best way to deal with that is definitely open to debate, but I don't feel releasing her with a "don't mess up again" warning is the right action. Again, we'll have to see if the probation terms are more than that.

But most child sex abusers were abused as children, the majority of people that commit murder-suicide had massive trigger events, most of the school shooters have a list of mitigating factors, but they all make a conscious decision to harm others. This is why I support strong gun restrictions and why mental healthcare should be covered (thank you ACA) and available. I also fully support all efforts to end domestic violence and help people affected by it and my reaction would be different if she had tried to kill her husband.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
I think one problem is your use of the word "justification" in this context. Getting probation doesn't mean anyone thinks she was justified. It is actually the opposite, that the judge decided the circumstances did not justify incarceration.

People need to stop thinking of sentences as punishment and start thinking of them as the minimum solution required to prevent a second occurrence.
Yeah, I couldn't think of the right word, I didn't really think justification was it, but I was typing between tasks at work. I'm not sure probation is really the required minimum to prevent a second occurrence, either, though.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
So nothing anyone else has said merits a response in your opinion?

Should it? The entire thread and responses is basically just a confirmation of my hypothesis that support for judicial discretion is 100% completely dependent on the identity of the perp and what crime is involved.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,239
13,840
136
Should it? The entire thread and responses is basically just a confirmation of my hypothesis that support for judicial discretion is 100% completely dependent on the identity of the perp and what crime is involved.
I guess that's one way to look at it... it's a stupid way, but it IS a way.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
This case helps expose the serious deficit our criminal justice system has in regards to mental illness. Arguing about what sentence was right for her obscures the fact that the options we have all suck and suppose a degree of understanding and control we are not afforded in reality.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Wonder if this will generate the same level of outrage at judicial sentencing discretion as the Brock Turner rape case did.


<snip>

MINNEAPOLIS — A former day care provider convicted of hanging a toddler has been sentenced to probation.

Nataliia Karia received 10 years probation on Monday for hanging a toddler in her daycare and running over two men with her minivan, before attempting suicide. She had faced 13 years in prison. All of the victims of the November 2016 incident survived their injuries.

Through an interpreter, Karia asked for forgiveness.

"I apologize and I don't know if you will be able to forgive me. I have no excuse for what I did," she said.

Judge Jay Quam said this is one of the hardest cases he's ever had adding if this was a normal case, given everything that happened, he would give the most severe sentence that he could.

But he says this was not a normal case.

</snip>

Yes, because the 2 cases are so very similar.

Did you maybe suffer a mild stroke recently?
 
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Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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Should it? The entire thread and responses is basically just a confirmation of my hypothesis that support for judicial discretion is 100% completely dependent on the identity of the perp and what crime is involved.

Because all crimes are exactly the same just as all people are exactly the same there should be one sentence for all crimes. Death.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,150
7,645
136
Yeah... Feels like people are being really blase' about the whole hanging a toddler thing.

Look, everyone's got problems. If yours get bad enough that there is no escape and you feel cornered and trapped, just skip over the "hanging a child" part straight to the "kill yourself" part and save the rest of us a bunch of heartache.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Time in regular jail isn't the best solution, but many years of treatment locked in a mental hospital is certainly warranted.

If that was my kid I'd be out for blood