Dawn of War: Soulstorm

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Did they jack up the difficulty in this one? I remember playing the 1st 2 without any problems but i cn't even finish the 1st campaign mission for the Tau. I'm constantly being attacked by millions of enemies and i'm playing on EASY.

I've got to use all of my units just to defend myself, i have no population left to just send one squad out to explore/capture stuff.

I just don't remember it being this damn difficult in the previous games.
 

Dorkenstein

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2004
3,554
0
0
I'm right with you on this one, pontifex. I had the exact problem. Starting as the Imperial Guard right next to the Sisters of Battle was an exercise in masochism.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
damnit! i tried the necron missian and i was able to get a bit further but when my entire force was out gathering points, a huge enemy army came and attacked my base. why do i have a population limit but the enemy gets to make as many units as he wants???
 

Dorkenstein

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2004
3,554
0
0
Are you playing against the Necrons? I believe they only need energy for a resource so they are a bit tougher.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Dorkenstein
Are you playing against the Necrons? I believe they only need energy for a resource so they are a bit tougher.

played as the necrons, not against.

seriosuly though, putting unit caps in RTS games is f-ing retarded
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: Dorkenstein
Are you playing against the Necrons? I believe they only need energy for a resource so they are a bit tougher.

played as the necrons, not against.

seriosuly though, putting unit caps in RTS games is f-ing retarded

Well... could you manually manage 40,000+ units or something? It ain't for no reasons that you control 5,000+ units in the Total War series by units stacks instead of individually (the same goes for the Warhammer 40K series, and many others as well). Having NO population caps in RTS'es would make no sense for three reasons, at least:

1) Because having no limits would effectively remove all strategy, just gather, attack and win, instead you should play C&C games, they're good for that (hey, I DO like C&C games, but outside of multi-player you won't find much strategy involved, but that's another story, and yes I do include even the "more 'strategized'" - made up word - Generals and Zero Hour).

2) Because having no limits would eventually make even a dual GTX 295 gaming rig crawl and cry for its mother (yes even if you only have sprites, eventually if units just get out and gather you WILL reach the textures, pixels and texels filtering and bandwidth limits and you'll see rather than "play" a slide-show).

3) Because it makes ALL RTS games in history and their respective developers retarded by your "logic", because ALL RTS games in history have a population cap at least by default, if you modify that and force the engine to endure more than it should you could as well just install Windows XP vanilla without any updates and ask for stability in return, good luck.

Why don't you just try to play like the developers wanted you to play it? I play that game since it came out (I mean the original Dawn of War) and I've never really encountered very difficult missions even when playing on Hard, mostly thanks to the poor vanilla A.I which by the way is worse in Soulstorm when compared to the previous versions (I know quite a bit about what the A.I could and could not do, I've been a beta tester for the Dawn of Skirmish A.I modification and let me tell you that if you think you're having a challenge right now you haven't seen anything yet). If you do want real challenge you'll need modifications, the vanilla game is a joke in comparison.

Now, of course, if you're not used to that game and its resources system and its "retarded" units cap then the only way for you to beat the Campaign even on Easy is obviously to get used to it, and for that I suggest you to play Skirmishes first. The vanilla A.I has been poorly coded, but coded nonetheless to use LOTS of infantry and a minimum of vehicles while ignoring most upgrades, or while upgrading blindly with no strategy in mind, it's always using the same starting strategy as well, so if you lose ten times in a row you should at least know where they're going when you do something specific, they won't change they tactics much.

Also I highly recommend you to get some replays, download them from gamereplays.com, watch how some good rated players (just look at the rate on the replay itself and how many times it has been downloaded) do their job and learn from them, they know what they're doing, for the most part. I'm not an expert myself but I did beat the Campaign on Hard with the DoS A.I mod, and even though I was beaten on a few occasions (especially against the Necrons and Tau Empire, my personal two worst nightmares) I could adapt and try different tactics. If you play as the Imperial Guard just upgrade your squads with Grenade Launchers and you'll be holding your ground much better. Also use lots of dancing and avoid combat, circle around your targets and get away from vehicles, use the special character's abilities (Psykers, etc) to your advantages, if the enemy if approaching your base and you don't have enough troops to counter-attack then send your Tech Priests inside the HQ (all three of them) and send your troops in any other nearby structure you can enter (garrisoning).

If you play as the Necrons get yourself a minimum of three Builder Scarabs squads, start with two at least (I usually go with three unless I play against the Tau and Orks) and build three Power Generators and train your Necron Lord first, as soon as he's ready get him out of your base, don't wait, and go harass your enemy's Listening Posts and/or builder units, also use Flayed Ones, a lot, personally I prefer them over the regular Necron Warriors (although the NW's can certainly do a good job), and teleport them back to your base or any nearby Listening Post if they're in danger. If you don't like strategy much then just fill up your Infantry population limit with Flayed Ones and send your Necron Lord to your enemy's main base, and as soon as he gets there just deep strike (I.E teleport) your Flayed Ones all around the the base, not in the "center", but in circle around the base, and the Necron Lord in the center, and then order your NL to use Solar Pulse, it will prevent any enemy units and turrets to fire (any long-range attacks will stop and they will be forced to go melee), it may not work very well all the time, but I've seen a good 60% or so of successful attacks with that cheap tactic before (including in on-line matches).

I see that generally speaking you're just new to the game, and you'll need time to get used to it, there's nine races for Christ's sake, give yourself some time. I mean I suck balls right now in Dawn of War II, and I'm currently inclined in hating that game, but I said the same thing when I first played Dawn of War, but today the Dawn of War series is to me the very best RTS out there (I know, that's subjective). Just search around the Relic forums for efficient build orders and counter units and early Tier 1 rushing tactics, you'll eventually be amazed at how simple the game really is in the end. When you know most of the counter units by heart you'll beat most of your foes on-line, and you'll give the A.I (modification or not) a good run for its money (with perhaps the exception of the Necrons on Very Hard). I tell you, Dawn od War Soulstorm has been badly rated generally (especially due to the lack of support for a LONG time from Relic and even after the latest patch was released), but it is just underrated right now, perhaps due to its age, or I don't know really, when I play it I'm having fun, when people criticize it I tend to defend it.

I'm not even an expert at it myself, I have an average of 4 loses every 10 matches or so on-line, especially in 1 Vs 1's, but I know quite a lot about efficient build orders since I've tested a lot of them for the modification I was a tester for as I said, and by the way if you want to take a look at the mod in question (Dawn of Skirmish) you should check it out: http://forums.revora.net/index...e5d1b9&showtopic=67353

Also for Sousltorm I highly recommend the Bugfix Mod, it's basically an unofficial patch similar to Oblivion's unofficial patch, it fixes A LOT of things that even the latest patch never touched at all, and that mod can be merged with Dawn of Skirmish with some manual editing involved (unless they have already merged it in in the last version which I haven't tried yet): http://forums.relicnews.com/sh...0&highlight=bugfix+mod

If you have questions about a specific mission let me know and I'll see what I can suggest, just tell me which faction you're playing as and fighting against and your tactical situation (are you already in Tier 2 or 3, etc).
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Originally posted by: Astrallite
Lazy coding...just rushing at you in waves.

Exactly, that's what the vanilla A.I does, all the time.
 

JoshGuru7

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2001
1,020
1
0
Originally posted by: ZenothI tell you, Dawn od War Soulstorm has been badly rated generally (especially due to the lack of support for a LONG time from Relic and even after the latest patch was released), but it is just underrated right now, perhaps due to its age, or I don't know really, when I play it I'm having fun, when people criticize it I tend to defend it.
I thought the negative reviews were mostly justified. Dawn of War was a really great RTS but I was pretty disappointed by Soulstorm given the four year gap. The flying units mostly acted like normal units, the new races were kind of cheesy (Sisters of Battle) and I pretty much just ended up playing the Necron again. The graphical improvements were there, but brought the game up to 2005 not 2008.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Originally posted by: JoshGuru7
Originally posted by: ZenothI tell you, Dawn od War Soulstorm has been badly rated generally (especially due to the lack of support for a LONG time from Relic and even after the latest patch was released), but it is just underrated right now, perhaps due to its age, or I don't know really, when I play it I'm having fun, when people criticize it I tend to defend it.
I thought the negative reviews were mostly justified. Dawn of War was a really great RTS but I was pretty disappointed by Soulstorm given the four year gap. The flying units mostly acted like normal units, the new races were kind of cheesy (Sisters of Battle) and I pretty much just ended up playing the Necron again. The graphical improvements were there, but brought the game up to 2005 not 2008.

That's because the engine on which it runs just like the very original Dawn of War was developed back in 2003, and its capabilities at displaying beautiful textures and high polygon-count models like Crysis are much lesser than anything created in 2007 or 2008. For anyone capable of appreciating a game outside of graphics that little matter should be of no concerns at all.

As for the flying units they do suck, but they can serve as cannon fodder if the player mistakingly builds one (I know some strategists will disagree, but I've had my fare share of tries and errors with them, and I don't touch them simply because I don't need them even just once to win against any of the nine races in the game, they're just a failed gimmick at giving a better excuse on developing Sousltorm outside of introducing two new races). But that however doesn't stop the ground units to be absolutely awesome and what makes the game what it is.

 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Zenoth
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: Dorkenstein
Are you playing against the Necrons? I believe they only need energy for a resource so they are a bit tougher.

played as the necrons, not against.

seriosuly though, putting unit caps in RTS games is f-ing retarded

Well... could you manually manage 40,000+ units or something? It ain't for no reasons that you control 5,000+ units in the Total War series by units stacks instead of individually (the same goes for the Warhammer 40K series, and many others as well). Having NO population caps in RTS'es would make no sense for three reasons, at least:

1) Because having no limits would effectively remove all strategy, just gather, attack and win, instead you should play C&C games, they're good for that (hey, I DO like C&C games, but outside of multi-player you won't find much strategy involved, but that's another story, and yes I do include even the "more 'strategized'" - made up word - Generals and Zero Hour).

2) Because having no limits would eventually make even a dual GTX 295 gaming rig crawl and cry for its mother (yes even if you only have sprites, eventually if units just get out and gather you WILL reach the textures, pixels and texels filtering and bandwidth limits and you'll see rather than "play" a slide-show).

3) Because it makes ALL RTS games in history and their respective developers retarded by your "logic", because ALL RTS games in history have a population cap at least by default, if you modify that and force the engine to endure more than it should you could as well just install Windows XP vanilla without any updates and ask for stability in return, good luck.

Why don't you just try to play like the developers wanted you to play it? I play that game since it came out (I mean the original Dawn of War) and I've never really encountered very difficult missions even when playing on Hard, mostly thanks to the poor vanilla A.I which by the way is worse in Soulstorm when compared to the previous versions (I know quite a bit about what the A.I could and could not do, I've been a beta tester for the Dawn of Skirmish A.I modification and let me tell you that if you think you're having a challenge right now you haven't seen anything yet). If you do want real challenge you'll need modifications, the vanilla game is a joke in comparison.

Now, of course, if you're not used to that game and its resources system and its "retarded" units cap then the only way for you to beat the Campaign even on Easy is obviously to get used to it, and for that I suggest you to play Skirmishes first. The vanilla A.I has been poorly coded, but coded nonetheless to use LOTS of infantry and a minimum of vehicles while ignoring most upgrades, or while upgrading blindly with no strategy in mind, it's always using the same starting strategy as well, so if you lose ten times in a row you should at least know where they're going when you do something specific, they won't change they tactics much.

Also I highly recommend you to get some replays, download them from gamereplays.com, watch how some good rated players (just look at the rate on the replay itself and how many times it has been downloaded) do their job and learn from them, they know what they're doing, for the most part. I'm not an expert myself but I did beat the Campaign on Hard with the DoS A.I mod, and even though I was beaten on a few occasions (especially against the Necrons and Tau Empire, my personal two worst nightmares) I could adapt and try different tactics. If you play as the Imperial Guard just upgrade your squads with Grenade Launchers and you'll be holding your ground much better. Also use lots of dancing and avoid combat, circle around your targets and get away from vehicles, use the special character's abilities (Psykers, etc) to your advantages, if the enemy if approaching your base and you don't have enough troops to counter-attack then send your Tech Priests inside the HQ (all three of them) and send your troops in any other nearby structure you can enter (garrisoning).

If you play as the Necrons get yourself a minimum of three Builder Scarabs squads, start with two at least (I usually go with three unless I play against the Tau and Orks) and build three Power Generators and train your Necron Lord first, as soon as he's ready get him out of your base, don't wait, and go harass your enemy's Listening Posts and/or builder units, also use Flayed Ones, a lot, personally I prefer them over the regular Necron Warriors (although the NW's can certainly do a good job), and teleport them back to your base or any nearby Listening Post if they're in danger. If you don't like strategy much then just fill up your Infantry population limit with Flayed Ones and send your Necron Lord to your enemy's main base, and as soon as he gets there just deep strike (I.E teleport) your Flayed Ones all around the the base, not in the "center", but in circle around the base, and the Necron Lord in the center, and then order your NL to use Solar Pulse, it will prevent any enemy units and turrets to fire (any long-range attacks will stop and they will be forced to go melee), it may not work very well all the time, but I've seen a good 60% or so of successful attacks with that cheap tactic before (including in on-line matches).

I see that generally speaking you're just new to the game, and you'll need time to get used to it, there's nine races for Christ's sake, give yourself some time. I mean I suck balls right now in Dawn of War II, and I'm currently inclined in hating that game, but I said the same thing when I first played Dawn of War, but today the Dawn of War series is to me the very best RTS out there (I know, that's subjective). Just search around the Relic forums for efficient build orders and counter units and early Tier 1 rushing tactics, you'll eventually be amazed at how simple the game really is in the end. When you know most of the counter units by heart you'll beat most of your foes on-line, and you'll give the A.I (modification or not) a good run for its money (with perhaps the exception of the Necrons on Very Hard). I tell you, Dawn od War Soulstorm has been badly rated generally (especially due to the lack of support for a LONG time from Relic and even after the latest patch was released), but it is just underrated right now, perhaps due to its age, or I don't know really, when I play it I'm having fun, when people criticize it I tend to defend it.

I'm not even an expert at it myself, I have an average of 4 loses every 10 matches or so on-line, especially in 1 Vs 1's, but I know quite a lot about efficient build orders since I've tested a lot of them for the modification I was a tester for as I said, and by the way if you want to take a look at the mod in question (Dawn of Skirmish) you should check it out: http://forums.revora.net/index...e5d1b9&showtopic=67353

Also for Sousltorm I highly recommend the Bugfix Mod, it's basically an unofficial patch similar to Oblivion's unofficial patch, it fixes A LOT of things that even the latest patch never touched at all, and that mod can be merged with Dawn of Skirmish with some manual editing involved (unless they have already merged it in in the last version which I haven't tried yet): http://forums.relicnews.com/sh...0&highlight=bugfix+mod

If you have questions about a specific mission let me know and I'll see what I can suggest, just tell me which faction you're playing as and fighting against and your tactical situation (are you already in Tier 2 or 3, etc).

you read way too much into it and oddly, at the same time, too little of my original posts.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
Well, ever since the first patch for the first game the difficulty has been bumped up quite a bit.

But yes, each expansion gets tougher because they know people need to be challenged. I wouldnt say the core game was easy for me but they were at least playable.
As of Soulstorm the game is downright vicious. I cant do the campaign and the skirmish is only good on the easiest settings with Slow gameplay.
 

AmberClad

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
4,914
0
0
So I got this game despite the mediocre reviews, both here and in general. I was prepared to be disappointed, but I didn't think the game was that bad to be honest. It seemed pretty much on par with Dark Crusade. Nothing new, but still fun.

I finished the Imperial Guard campaign and now I'm playing it through again, with multiple campaigns going on simultaneously as the other factions. The only non-stronghold skirmish where I got completely owned was on the moon above the planet the Space Marines and Orks begin. I wasn't paying attention to the Strength rating (which was 10) and scouting reports, and got into a 2 against 1 battle with the Space Marines. This was early on in the campaign and I didn't have a lot of forces in my honor guard. I kept getting waves of Force Commanders, Chaplains, Librarians, Dreadnoughts, and eventually Land Raiders thrown at me. I finally had to give up and came back to that planet after I had built up my honor guard.

The IG might actually be the easiest faction to play in campaign mode. You can do some really cheap and cheesy things in the stronghold assaults, like using scanners combined with Basilisks to take out the main mission objective without triggering the preprogrammed waves of enemies. The heavy weapons teams are also pretty useful in the Take and Hold missions and defending the four points during the attack on the Necron stronghold.

I will agree with one thing though -- those flying units seemed like a waste of support cap. I never really used them.

Still haven't decided whether to move on to DoW2. I'm pretty disappointed about the Imperial Guard not being included, so I'm inclined to just wait until an expansion is released.