Dawkins' "The God Delusion": One of the best books I've read in a while.

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Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Rob9478,

Exactly. I am a Christian, and my dad is a Presbyterian minister. Neither I or the article tries to discredit the Bible. The point was that it's silly to argue about the inerrancy of the Bible, instead of it being infallible. For example, all versions of the Bible state the the universe was created in seven 24 hour periods. I don't believe that, but I do believe in creation, and don't see the point in arguing about that silly detail

Actually the Bible does not say that the "days" were 24 hours. It simply says that the days began with the morning and ended at the evening. Since this was used to describe the first day, before He created the Sun, obviously that day was not as we know it. Of course, the Bible says that with God, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. All that we can really derive from this, is that the word "day" could have simply used the word "interval".

However, I won't comment on your remark about not believing in the creation, because I do not consider that to be a Christian perception. But, there is enough disagreement without arguing with another Christian.

No, I do believe in creation. And my "24 hour period" comment was one example, but your reaction was just what I was talking about. Whether the "days" were 24 hours, or a metaphor to represent an undetermined period of time, it doesn't matter. The message is that God created everything in the universe. Period. I think too much is lost in the discussion about insignificant details.

I also don't believe the entire world was flooded when Noah built the ark. They had no comprehension of North America. Their "world" was probably very limited. But again, the message is infallable.
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Rob9478,

Exactly. I am a Christian, and my dad is a Presbyterian minister. Neither I or the article tries to discredit the Bible. The point was that it's silly to argue about the inerrancy of the Bible, instead of it being infallible. For example, all versions of the Bible state the the universe was created in seven 24 hour periods. I don't believe that, but I do believe in creation, and don't see the point in arguing about that silly detail

Actually the Bible does not say that the "days" were 24 hours. It simply says that the days began with the morning and ended at the evening. Since this was used to describe the first day, before He created the Sun, obviously that day was not as we know it. Of course, the Bible says that with God, a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. All that we can really derive from this, is that instead of the word "day" could have simply used the word "interval".

However, I won't comment on your remark about not believing in the creation, because I do not consider that to be a Christian perception. But, there is enough disagreement without arguing with another Christian.

 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Rob9478,

I also don't believe the entire world was flooded when Noah built the ark. They had no comprehension of North America. Their "world" was probably very limited. But again, the message is infallable.

I do, because the Bible is not dependent on the Noah's or the Hebrew's understanding, because the Bible is the Word of God, not man. Along with this, there is plenty of evidence available to support the idea of all areas of the Earth having at least once, been under water. I do not question the Word of God, although I might question my understanding of it.
 

Slackware

Banned
Jan 5, 2007
365
0
0
"Now we are going to interpret gods word instead of reading it like it was written"

Look, either it is the word of god and he is infallable, you don't interpret his word. OR you believe it was kinda his um, perhaps not his word but, guidance?

And then it can pretty much mean anything to anyone. Yeah, that is what god intended, whatever dipsh!ts just interpret my words, don't read them as they stand because i'm just screwing around.

Seekermeister, for being so devoted to the most obvious heresy you do take a great deal of pride in condemning others for theirs.
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Rob9478,

I also don't believe the entire world was flooded when Noah built the ark. They had no comprehension of North America. Their "world" was probably very limited. But again, the message is infallable.

I do, because the Bible is not dependent on the Noah's or the Hebrew's understanding, because the Bible is the Word of God, not man. Along with this, there is plenty of evidence available to support the idea of all areas of the Earth having at least once, been under water. I do not question the Word of God, although I might question my understanding of it.

That's the argument I always get from the "inerrant" fans. "Who am I to question God?" I am not questioning God. I am saying that it's possible that we read the Bible too literally. Or rather, focus too much on the details, which true or not, doesn't change the message of the story. In fact, I'm not even saying things in the Bible are untrue, but rather translated too literally. It's possible they said "the whole world was flooded," and meant all of the area they were familiar with. I think God would allow that to be written.

But I digress, as I'm contradicting myself that I don't argue about insignificant details. I think you and I are on the same team here. :)
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Slackware,

Seekermeister, for being so devoted to the most obvious heresy you do take a great deal of pride in condemning others for theirs.

Considering your past remarks, I don't know why I respond to this, but I shall say that I condemn nobody, the only person that can condemn anyone is themselves. But then, if you are unable to understand me, then there is not much likelyhood that you would understand God or His Word either.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
81
Hmmm... beyond the great comedy that some provide in this thread (due to their ignorance of science), I felt that I should just add this facet to the discussion:

I've seen it mentioned and exhibited many times in the previous pages that when someone's faith is attacked or questioned, they seem to withdraw and simply state that he is above the attacker due to some personal "god" or divine connection. Beyond the amusingly immature nature that this stance screams, I was wondering if readers/posters were aware that this can also be a basic form of psychosis. Many aspects of this exact mind stance: self-importance, a mind withdrawn from reality, and/or belief that the magical/mythological are real (when especially seeded, perhaps by reading the bible) fit bill adequately. I'm not saying that this makes a Texas mother drowning her children out of any symptomatic person, but there are degrees of every psychological "malfunction." Of course, this behavior can also just be a lame attempt at dismissing opposition (see elementary-age child psychology). But what is it? Just thought I'd churn the pot :D
 

Slackware

Banned
Jan 5, 2007
365
0
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

Seekermeister, for being so devoted to the most obvious heresy you do take a great deal of pride in condemning others for theirs.

Considering your past remarks, I don't know why I respond to this, but I shall say that I condemn nobody, the only person that can condemn anyone is themselves. But then, if you are unable to understand me, then there is not much likelyhood that you would understand God or His Word either.

And you don't understand it either, you "interpret" gods words to mean what fits your way of looking at things and you think that is sufficient.

Don't think that i'm trying to belittle you, i am not, i'm just saying that either it is the word of god and is meant to be read as it was written (King James philosophy) or it is NOT the the exact word of god and then how would you know what to belive and what to discard?

My past remarks? Enlighten me.
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.
 

Slackware

Banned
Jan 5, 2007
365
0
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.

You convinenty avoided my other questions which makes you kinda dishonest bit if you absolutely must no, i'm Jewish.

I find you evasive and proclaiming your truth and then dissapearing as soon as it is really questined as you cannot stand by it.

You could prove me wrong but you wont, because you already know that you have lost this, i have taken your singular beliefs and smashed them because either you do belive, or you don't, the middle road you were on is nothing but a dead end.
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Originally posted by: Slackware
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.

You convinenty avoided my other questions which makes you kinda dishonest bit if you absolutely must no, i'm Jewish.

I find you evasive and proclaiming your truth and then dissapearing as soon as it is really questined as you cannot stand by it.

You could prove me wrong but you wont, because you already know that you have lost this, i have taken your singular beliefs and smashed them because either you do belive, or you don't, the middle road you were on is nothing but a dead end.
Thank you for clarifying your beliefs. I have attempted to discuss religion with Jews before, and I have always found it a futile goal. It should be obvious from the beginning that a Christian and a Jew are going to have some sharp disagreements about Scriptures...unless you are a Messianic Jew, and judging from your remarks, you are not. I see no point in dwelling on what our differences are, because neither of us are going to change. I do not hold any Jew in contempt, because I still believe that they are God's chosen people, but that they shall not realize that blessing, until they recognize their sin against Jesus and repent. I'm quite sure that is not something that you are ready to do, but you shall...one day.

You can call my method of responding to what I choose in a post as dishonest if you want, but their is nothing dishonest in choosing to respond only to items that are worthwhile. From a Christian perspective, your's have not been.

 

Slackware

Banned
Jan 5, 2007
365
0
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Originally posted by: Slackware
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.

You convinenty avoided my other questions which makes you kinda dishonest bit if you absolutely must no, i'm Jewish.

I find you evasive and proclaiming your truth and then dissapearing as soon as it is really questined as you cannot stand by it.

You could prove me wrong but you wont, because you already know that you have lost this, i have taken your singular beliefs and smashed them because either you do belive, or you don't, the middle road you were on is nothing but a dead end.
Thank you for clarifying your beliefs. I have attempted to discuss religion with Jews before, and I have always found it a futile goal. It should be obvious from the beginning that a Christian and a Jew are going to have some sharp disagreements about Scriptures...unless you are a Messianic Jew, and judging from your remarks, you are not. I see no point in dwelling on what our differences are, because neither of us are going to change. I do not hold any Jew in contempt, because I still believe that they are God's chosen people, but that they shall not realize that blessing, until they recognize their sin against Jesus and repent. I'm quite sure that is not something that you are ready to do, but you shall...one day.

You can call my method of responding to what I choose in a post as dishonest if you want, but their is nothing dishonest in choosing to respond only to items that are worthwhile. From a Christian perspective, your's have not been.

There is a dishonesty buried in your belifs even, because you proclaim to know better than the written word of god, you are interpreting things to fit into our own created holes that is not belief at all, that is puree created from something that you took some words from.

You have not answered me still, did god give you the the right to interpret his words or are you just lost and proclaiming YOUR words to be truth as in YOUR words are the words God MEANT to create? By that you have denied the word of god as whispered into the ears or the writers by the holy spirit, you do know what that means?

The only sin that cannot be forgiven.
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Slackware,

It should have been obvious from my last post, that I shall not respond to your questions and comments in the fashion that you demand. Yet, I shall say this much, most of the world's population, including myself, doesn't speak ancient Hebrew, therefore it requires translation for that to be meaningful to most people, including many Jews. Do I believe that God expects and requires Hebrew to become a universal language...not at this time, it may become so at the second advent, but I doubt that even then.

If the Scriptures require translation, then it should be obvious that those translations would never have the exact meaning of the original. As I indicated previously, I do reference the Hebrew Scriptures to improve my understanding of the Old Testament, or as you call it...The Torah. However, the Scriptures are not all of Hebrew origin, most of the New Testament is in Greek. This portion of the Bible has not had the control standards of the Old Testament writings, and it does require personal interpretation to obtain the greatest understanding.

As far as the only unforgiveable sin, that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and this type of interpretation is not blasphemy, regardless of what you believe. It is quite clear from Old Testament history, that the Jewish people have done far worse than mistranslate the Scriptures, they were often ignorant of them. The various sects of Jews also indicate that there is a large degree of variance in interpretation. So I assume that the only interpretation that you consider valid is your own.
 

Estrella

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
900
0
76
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.

Personal attacks are not USUALLY me, but here goes.

Seekermeister, /troll be gone

Your holy book was written by man. Which accounts were put in the final version was decided by man. It has been translated by man. It has been read by you, a man. Miracles in the bible?! Literary devices, have you heard of them?

If man is fallible, which he is, then why the infallibility talk?

Your savior was born a man, by parthenogenesis(supposedly). He, for all we know, fell into a coma upon the cross and awoke going,"WTF?! ROCK!" Have you heard of adrenaline?

When will you realize that "belief" is an outdated word which is more appropriately replaced with,"I think."

Please, do us all a favor and deconstruct your opponents arguments with something other then, "I know this to be true." If it is true, create a tautology with it and submit it to your peers. Do not be surprised if you get it back it says,"You are full of ******."

And of course, by one of your previous arguments, if we were not there or in that persons head then how are we supposed to know by written accounts.

Do not give me a line of ****** about the unknown and all this other ******. The only thing unknown here is w/etf is going on in your small seemingly insignificant head.

You are full of it and you know. Stop your worship of your false idol. Whatever happened to the whole,"Thou shalt have no engraven images of me?" Cross, wtf?! Contradiction. Do not give me this line of ****** about Jesus came and it changed all the rules. BS. Where is it written?

This should ****** with your head. What happens if you remove the self? What happens when you learn the truth of the impermenance of all things?

Whatever happened to helping one another? I do not see you helping anyone by spouting a load of ****** not based anywhere in logic. Stop using your scare tactics for whatever aim you are but a pawn in. You want to do someone a favor? Go help at a soup line. Go build a house for someone who needs it. Give someone you despise a friendly visit. Just do not go spouting your ******, it helps no one.

You know you are on a sinking ship, but you say otherwise because you cannot take it. You are just like my past girlfriends; you say w/e is false, not true, etc. even though they know I am absolutely right.

Despite what this says, if you come around to make any sort of logical, not an I told you so argument, I will listen. Put your thinking cap on and throw away your doctrine cap.

P.S. Do not bother writing back to this as I have nothing left to say to you. I will ignore anything you have to say in this thread. I will give you a lot of credit in other threads as I have agreed with you before. Here, I more than disagree.

 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
81
Originally posted by: Estrella
Personal attacks are not USUALLY me, but here goes.

Seekermeister, /troll be gone

Your holy book was written by man. Which accounts were put in the final version was decided by man. It has been translated by man. It has been read by you, a man. Miracles in the bible?! Literary devices, have you heard of them?

If man is fallible, which he is, then why the infallibility talk?

Your savior was born a man, by parthenogenesis(supposedly). He, for all we know, fell into a coma upon the cross and awoke going,"WTF?! ROCK!" Have you heard of adrenaline?

When will you realize that "belief" is an outdated word which is more appropriately replaced with,"I think."

Please, do us all a favor and deconstruct your opponents arguments with something other then, "I know this to be true." If it is true, create a tautology with it and submit it to your peers. Do not be surprised if you get it back it says,"You are full of ******."

And of course, by one of your previous arguments, if we were not there or in that persons head then how are we supposed to know by written accounts.

Do not give me a line of ****** about the unknown and all this other ******. The only thing unknown here is w/etf is going on in your small seemingly insignificant head.

You are full of it and you know. Stop your worship of your false idol. Whatever happened to the whole,"Thou shalt have no engraven images of me?" Cross, wtf?! Contradiction. Do not give me this line of ****** about Jesus came and it changed all the rules. BS. Where is it written?

This should ****** with your head. What happens if you remove the self? What happens when you learn the truth of the impermenance of all things?

Whatever happened to helping one another? I do not see you helping anyone by spouting a load of ****** not based anywhere in logic. Stop using your scare tactics for whatever aim you are but a pawn in. You want to do someone a favor? Go help at a soup line. Go build a house for someone who needs it. Give someone you despise a friendly visit. Just do not go spouting your ******, it helps no one.

You know you are on a sinking ship, but you say otherwise because you cannot take it. You are just like my past girlfriends; you say w/e is false, not true, etc. even though they know I am absolutely right.

Despite what this says, if you come around to make any sort of logical, not an I told you so argument, I will listen. Put your thinking cap on and throw away your doctrine cap.

P.S. Do not bother writing back to this as I have nothing left to say to you. I will ignore anything you have to say in this thread. I will give you a lot of credit in other threads as I have agreed with you before. Here, I more than disagree.

I give this a well deserved owned! :cool:
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
0
0
Sadly, most people - religious, agnostic or athiest, base their belief system on a few scattered facts, opinions, tiny portions of a few books, or a scattered handful of scientific facts.

To base your belief system on years of study of lots of literature, history, science and more is simply too much effort for most - as the vast majority of the human population are simply lazy. It's easier to "believe what I believe" wihtout much thought or question.

Simply put, the matter deserves far more analysis and attention than it gets... but that would take people away from their precious TV's (or whatever kills their spare time.)

 

6000SUX

Golden Member
May 8, 2005
1,504
0
0
Originally posted by: bluemax
Sadly, most people - religious, agnostic or athiest, base their belief system on a few scattered facts, opinions, tiny portions of a few books, or a scattered handful of scientific facts.

To base your belief system on years of study of lots of literature, history, science and more is simply too much effort for most - as the vast majority of the human population are simply lazy. It's easier to "believe what I believe" wihtout much thought or question.

Simply put, the matter deserves far more analysis and attention than it gets... but that would take people away from their precious TV's (or whatever kills their spare time.)

I don't know why it should suck up all of my spare time, seeing as how there's never been any evidence of God. In addition, no Christian has ever explained to me (and I've asked many times) why their religion is the "true" one. All religions offer the same "proof", i.e. nothing but the words in a holy book and the assurances of the faithful.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
81
Originally posted by: Estrella
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Slackware,

My past remarks? Enlighten me.

You have said nothing that would indicate that you believe in God or the Bible. Therefore, your view of how the Bible should be read, or what it means, does not mean much. It is a favorite pasttime of nonChristians to pick and choose what they want from the Bible, only to use it as a means of attempting to trip a Christian in their own words. If I could enlighten you, I would. But only you can do that.

Personal attacks are not USUALLY me, but here goes.

Seekermeister, /troll be gone

Your holy book was written by man. Which accounts were put in the final version was decided by man. It has been translated by man. It has been read by you, a man. Miracles in the bible?! Literary devices, have you heard of them?

If man is fallible, which he is, then why the infallibility talk?

Your savior was born a man, by parthenogenesis(supposedly). He, for all we know, fell into a coma upon the cross and awoke going,"WTF?! ROCK!" Have you heard of adrenaline?

When will you realize that "belief" is an outdated word which is more appropriately replaced with,"I think."

Please, do us all a favor and deconstruct your opponents arguments with something other then, "I know this to be true." If it is true, create a tautology with it and submit it to your peers. Do not be surprised if you get it back it says,"You are full of ******."

And of course, by one of your previous arguments, if we were not there or in that persons head then how are we supposed to know by written accounts.

Do not give me a line of ****** about the unknown and all this other ******. The only thing unknown here is w/etf is going on in your small seemingly insignificant head.

You are full of it and you know. Stop your worship of your false idol. Whatever happened to the whole,"Thou shalt have no engraven images of me?" Cross, wtf?! Contradiction. Do not give me this line of ****** about Jesus came and it changed all the rules. BS. Where is it written?

This should ****** with your head. What happens if you remove the self? What happens when you learn the truth of the impermenance of all things?

Whatever happened to helping one another? I do not see you helping anyone by spouting a load of ****** not based anywhere in logic. Stop using your scare tactics for whatever aim you are but a pawn in. You want to do someone a favor? Go help at a soup line. Go build a house for someone who needs it. Give someone you despise a friendly visit. Just do not go spouting your ******, it helps no one.

You know you are on a sinking ship, but you say otherwise because you cannot take it. You are just like my past girlfriends; you say w/e is false, not true, etc. even though they know I am absolutely right.

Despite what this says, if you come around to make any sort of logical, not an I told you so argument, I will listen. Put your thinking cap on and throw away your doctrine cap.

P.S. Do not bother writing back to this as I have nothing left to say to you. I will ignore anything you have to say in this thread. I will give you a lot of credit in other threads as I have agreed with you before. Here, I more than disagree.

Hear, hear!
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
0
0
Originally posted by: 6000SUX
Originally posted by: bluemax
Sadly, most people - religious, agnostic or athiest, base their belief system on a few scattered facts, opinions, tiny portions of a few books, or a scattered handful of scientific facts.

To base your belief system on years of study of lots of literature, history, science and more is simply too much effort for most - as the vast majority of the human population are simply lazy. It's easier to "believe what I believe" wihtout much thought or question.

Simply put, the matter deserves far more analysis and attention than it gets... but that would take people away from their precious TV's (or whatever kills their spare time.)

I don't know why it should suck up all of my spare time, seeing as how there's never been any evidence of God. In addition, no Christian has ever explained to me (and I've asked many times) why their religion is the "true" one. All religions offer the same "proof", i.e. nothing but the words in a holy book and the assurances of the faithful.

Case in point. Somehow I doubt you'd change your mind ANY direction, regardless of any evidence placed before you. You believe what you WANT to believe - anything else would mean a change - and that would just suck not putting yourself first. ;)

Both religious and atheist are mostly following blindly with no real data behind them. If they only studied some history they might be in for a shock.

Funniest thing is - those "blind sheep" both religious AND athiest are being led by the nose by "the powers that be", and I do mean earthly ones - not of the spiritual realm.
Suckers - plain and simple, pawns in a greater plan unfolding...
 

Fraggable

Platinum Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,799
0
0
I don't need to prove Christianity. You can't prove your view is perfect either.

^^ aimed at anyone who would claim that Christianity is false simply because it can't be proved

I believe it because historical facts such as archaeological digs and discoveries have proved it and its timeframe over and over. And I see God working in my life and all around me.
 

dogooder

Member
Jun 22, 2005
61
0
0
Originally posted by: bluemax
Originally posted by: 6000SUX
Originally posted by: bluemax
Sadly, most people - religious, agnostic or athiest, base their belief system on a few scattered facts, opinions, tiny portions of a few books, or a scattered handful of scientific facts.

To base your belief system on years of study of lots of literature, history, science and more is simply too much effort for most - as the vast majority of the human population are simply lazy. It's easier to "believe what I believe" wihtout much thought or question.

Simply put, the matter deserves far more analysis and attention than it gets... but that would take people away from their precious TV's (or whatever kills their spare time.)

I don't know why it should suck up all of my spare time, seeing as how there's never been any evidence of God. In addition, no Christian has ever explained to me (and I've asked many times) why their religion is the "true" one. All religions offer the same "proof", i.e. nothing but the words in a holy book and the assurances of the faithful.

Case in point. Somehow I doubt you'd change your mind ANY direction, regardless of any evidence placed before you. You believe what you WANT to believe - anything else would mean a change - and that would just suck not putting yourself first. ;)

Both religious and atheist are mostly following blindly with no real data behind them. If they only studied some history they might be in for a shock.

Funniest thing is - those "blind sheep" both religious AND athiest are being led by the nose by "the powers that be", and I do mean earthly ones - not of the spiritual realm.
Suckers - plain and simple, pawns in a greater plan unfolding...

I find this hard to believe. I would guess that the majority of atheists came from at least a moderately religious background. At some point they realized that the claims of their religion didn't match up with reality, so they abandoned it. They became atheists exactly because there was no data for their prior religious beliefs. Or do you disagree?

What "shock" does history provide?

Like so many, many things - people form an opinion (whether factual or NOT) and stick to it with an iron fist. No amount of proven fact will change their minds because that would make them wrong! And nothing is going to make them wrong!

I'm not like this and I'd be willing to bet (with odds) that atheists are less likely than believers to be like this. Yes, I hate to be wrong, but the difference is that when reality contradicts my beliefs, I change my beliefs, not reality.
 

Poulsonator

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2002
1,597
0
76
Originally posted by: tcG
What about all the starving people in Africa who have not so much as HEARD of a personal god?... what does religion do about them? "Welcome to planet earth - your entire family will die in 20 years of famine and disease and you will be damned to hell for eternity."

That's not God...it's Satan. Remember? Everything good is God, everything bad is Satan. At least that's what the religious types tell me. I still can't figure out why, if God is so all-mighty and powerful, He won't get off of his ass and help those that need it most, though.
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: MrK6
Originally posted by: Estrella
Personal attacks are not USUALLY me, but here goes.

Seekermeister, /troll be gone

Your holy book was written by man. Which accounts were put in the final version was decided by man. It has been translated by man. It has been read by you, a man. Miracles in the bible?! Literary devices, have you heard of them?

If man is fallible, which he is, then why the infallibility talk?

Your savior was born a man, by parthenogenesis(supposedly). He, for all we know, fell into a coma upon the cross and awoke going,"WTF?! ROCK!" Have you heard of adrenaline?

When will you realize that "belief" is an outdated word which is more appropriately replaced with,"I think."

Please, do us all a favor and deconstruct your opponents arguments with something other then, "I know this to be true." If it is true, create a tautology with it and submit it to your peers. Do not be surprised if you get it back it says,"You are full of ******."

And of course, by one of your previous arguments, if we were not there or in that persons head then how are we supposed to know by written accounts.

Do not give me a line of ****** about the unknown and all this other ******. The only thing unknown here is w/etf is going on in your small seemingly insignificant head.

You are full of it and you know. Stop your worship of your false idol. Whatever happened to the whole,"Thou shalt have no engraven images of me?" Cross, wtf?! Contradiction. Do not give me this line of ****** about Jesus came and it changed all the rules. BS. Where is it written?

This should ****** with your head. What happens if you remove the self? What happens when you learn the truth of the impermenance of all things?

Whatever happened to helping one another? I do not see you helping anyone by spouting a load of ****** not based anywhere in logic. Stop using your scare tactics for whatever aim you are but a pawn in. You want to do someone a favor? Go help at a soup line. Go build a house for someone who needs it. Give someone you despise a friendly visit. Just do not go spouting your ******, it helps no one.

You know you are on a sinking ship, but you say otherwise because you cannot take it. You are just like my past girlfriends; you say w/e is false, not true, etc. even though they know I am absolutely right.

Despite what this says, if you come around to make any sort of logical, not an I told you so argument, I will listen. Put your thinking cap on and throw away your doctrine cap.

P.S. Do not bother writing back to this as I have nothing left to say to you. I will ignore anything you have to say in this thread. I will give you a lot of credit in other threads as I have agreed with you before. Here, I more than disagree.

I give this a well deserved owned! :cool:

LOL, I love the sense of pride Estrella must have felt after enlightening us with his poor attempt at a well thought out post. And the kudos given to him by MrK6. :) I love how small youthful minds think they've got it all figured out. Scholars have debated Christianity for 2000 years. Volumes have been written on the subject. But Estrella, and many like him on this forum, have it all figured out. Makes me laugh. I'm assuming you have studied theology for many years, and have a full understanding of what you're talking about? Or are you merely stating an uninformed opinion?

First of all, you criticize Seekermeister for stating his beliefs as fact. You say, "Please, do us all a favor and deconstruct your opponents arguments with something other then, 'I know this to be true.'" However, you do the exact same thing when you state things like, "Your holy book was written by man. Which accounts were put in the final version was decided by man." I can agree that Christianity is a belief and cannot be proven as fact, but neither can atheism. So state it as such.

Then you prove how ignorant you are of Christianity when you try to call out specifics. And your uninformed followers don't even notice, and still give you praise. LOL. Having a cross in the church does not break the idolatry commandment. I don't see any Christians worshiping any images as gods. No one considers the image of a cross to be anything to be worshiped. And doing so has nothing to do with Jesus "fulfilling the law". LOL! Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Jewish laws, meaning we are no longer required to follow Jewish law, but that does not pertain to the Ten Commandments. And no one is putting crosses in their church as a contradiction of that commandment, because it's OK now that Jesus came. And you say, "Do not give me this line of ****** about Jesus came and it changed all the rules. BS. Where is it written?" Believe me. It's written. :)

Despite stating your misleading, uninformed opinions confidently and factual, to the educated person, you still fell flat on your face. No "props" to you. No "ownage". It was a poor attempt to show some authority on the subject, and you just made a fool of yourself.