You never know, like I stated way back in this thread, he may just manage to lift ATi out of the PR sewer. I"m hopeful that he will actually, just not at all optimistic it will happen, given ATi's PR history and what I've seen of his own history in the forums.
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
- 5,714
- 1,935
- 136
Grammer pollice allert. It's "your" and not "you're" omgwtfbbq, you are teh sock. Haha, total pwnage.
Sorry, but I didn't participate in this thread but some of the comments were getting so silly. More so because some of the guys took it so seriously. Let's everyone take a deep breath, count to ten and exhale.
I've been offline for a bit now(getting my 768K moved to 3Mb connection) so I am a bit late posting here.
Dave is without a doubt one of the most seriously biased people I have ever conversed with in any manner. His is a different type then what we have here. He has two different elements that make him quite different from the fanatics and nvidiots. One is that he falls for ATi's PRgineering departments line very easily. The other is that he builds up what he thinks is important in his mind, and then justifies his slanting for that purpose. Remember how hugely important the R300's shader performance advantage was when it came out? How it was the key feature to have? Here we are a handful of generations later and to this day the majority of games coming out don't have any DX9 level shader ops. Now was Dave wrong to want to see fast adoption? Of course not. It was a big feature that helped to advance the industry. If he was known for this type of outlook it would have been great, but he was also one of the big bashers of hardware T&L when it came to the market along with being a detractor of Dot3 and CubeMapping. The only decent implementation from that era was EMBM, the one nV didn't support. His long term outlook has ALWAYS favored whatever nV's chief competitor did over them. He hasn't always been an ATi loyalist, I also never thought of him as a zombie- at least certainly not like Dave Barron, but he was a fairly extremist PVR fan for quite some time. He only jumped on the ATi bandwagon after PVR exited the PC market altogether. His heavy slant for ATi is backed by logic and reason- to debate the point with him you need to take issue with the underlying principles. This isn't like some of the half witted posters we have on this board who all of a sudden decide that AF is the singular most important feature on a GPU when ATi manages to take an edge over nV for the first time ever- Dave has sound logical thought behind his leanings- even though I disagree with them a lot of the time
Dave is also a really nice guy, extremely intelligent and articulate and a decent person to deal with every time I ever have. Those who have been banned from B3D I would have to ask exactly what was it that you have done? Dave and I have had numerous lengthy heated debates and never once have I had so much as a hint of the possibility of being banned from that forum. Were you being civil to him as a person? Were you being disrepectful of other members? I can speak from experience when I say that Wavey has always been even handed with the treatment I have seen him give people- be they backers of team red or team green. B3D does not tollerate the kind of open hostility we have around here- but that isn't a bad thing.
This is one of the examples of Dave's bias I think about when he starts talking. nVidia said the NV30 could draw eight pixels per clock- it could. The issue is that so many people took that to mean it was a 8x1 configuration- a leap of logic that made sense given earlier architectures, but it didn't work that way with the NV30(which nV made clear in their comments). Dave 'investigated and exposed' nVidia on something they never said- that was the press.
ATi once detected how buffering was implemented on a 3D benchmark so they could skip rendering entire frames.
They and nVidia both reduce IQ all over the place right now, by default, in nearly every game. They both suck on that front. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just a silly fanboy.
It was fixed as soon as you renamed the exe. That was not a bug, that was a flat out got caught with their pants down cheat by your standards. I don't care which standards people use to determine a cheat, but keep them constant.
Congrats on the job Dave
Where abouts in Canada will you be?
Dave is without a doubt one of the most seriously biased people I have ever conversed with in any manner. His is a different type then what we have here. He has two different elements that make him quite different from the fanatics and nvidiots. One is that he falls for ATi's PRgineering departments line very easily. The other is that he builds up what he thinks is important in his mind, and then justifies his slanting for that purpose. Remember how hugely important the R300's shader performance advantage was when it came out? How it was the key feature to have? Here we are a handful of generations later and to this day the majority of games coming out don't have any DX9 level shader ops. Now was Dave wrong to want to see fast adoption? Of course not. It was a big feature that helped to advance the industry. If he was known for this type of outlook it would have been great, but he was also one of the big bashers of hardware T&L when it came to the market along with being a detractor of Dot3 and CubeMapping. The only decent implementation from that era was EMBM, the one nV didn't support. His long term outlook has ALWAYS favored whatever nV's chief competitor did over them. He hasn't always been an ATi loyalist, I also never thought of him as a zombie- at least certainly not like Dave Barron, but he was a fairly extremist PVR fan for quite some time. He only jumped on the ATi bandwagon after PVR exited the PC market altogether. His heavy slant for ATi is backed by logic and reason- to debate the point with him you need to take issue with the underlying principles. This isn't like some of the half witted posters we have on this board who all of a sudden decide that AF is the singular most important feature on a GPU when ATi manages to take an edge over nV for the first time ever- Dave has sound logical thought behind his leanings- even though I disagree with them a lot of the time
Dave is also a really nice guy, extremely intelligent and articulate and a decent person to deal with every time I ever have. Those who have been banned from B3D I would have to ask exactly what was it that you have done? Dave and I have had numerous lengthy heated debates and never once have I had so much as a hint of the possibility of being banned from that forum. Were you being civil to him as a person? Were you being disrepectful of other members? I can speak from experience when I say that Wavey has always been even handed with the treatment I have seen him give people- be they backers of team red or team green. B3D does not tollerate the kind of open hostility we have around here- but that isn't a bad thing.
This is one of the examples of Dave's bias I think about when he starts talking. nVidia said the NV30 could draw eight pixels per clock- it could. The issue is that so many people took that to mean it was a 8x1 configuration- a leap of logic that made sense given earlier architectures, but it didn't work that way with the NV30(which nV made clear in their comments). Dave 'investigated and exposed' nVidia on something they never said- that was the press.
ATi once detected how buffering was implemented on a 3D benchmark so they could skip rendering entire frames.
They and nVidia both reduce IQ all over the place right now, by default, in nearly every game. They both suck on that front. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just a silly fanboy.
It was fixed as soon as you renamed the exe. That was not a bug, that was a flat out got caught with their pants down cheat by your standards. I don't care which standards people use to determine a cheat, but keep them constant.
Congrats on the job Dave
Where abouts in Canada will you be?
Ben Skywalker, very nice post. It is refreshing to see someone disagree with people but keep it on mark and unoffensive.
Calling "Quack" a cheat is silly to me. But as it is, nobody but a select few at ATi know for sure, and thats the bottom line. It was an R100 optimization left in for the R200. 4 days after the news broke, new drivers came out, that kept IQ where it should be, and improved performance over the IQ degraded drivers. The 8500 had bug riddled drivers for the first several months, anyone who had one, or was "in the know" back then can attest to that fact. I sold my GF3 for a 8500, and personally was very aware of the bad first set of drivers, and the few that followed. Later versions of the drivers cleaned up a lot of the bugs, and improved performance dramatically. As you can read in many "Follow up" reviews with newer drivers, such as from here at AT. I dont know why its so hard for some people to believe that its not a bug, when back then, thats what ATi's drivers where known for, and so was the 8500 card at launch. In fact, AT said that "The Radeon 8500 was in no shape to be evaluated at all.", "The drivers were buggy and they lacked support for the full Radeon 8500 feature set. ", and "ATI should not have chose to present the Radeon 8500 this soon." And that was just is one paragraph! Clearly the 8500 was not ready for prime time, and neither were its drivers. Yet people have a hard time believing that it was a bug? And performance was increased with a new driver 4 days later, with the IQ how it should be? Seems fairly obvious to me it was a bug. But as I said, only a select few at ATi really know the 100% thruth, the rest is just different peoples opinion.
Whats funny is, during all of that, NV's skybox looked like crap, and ATi's was much better. Yet no mention of that anywhere.
Whats funny is, during all of that, NV's skybox looked like crap, and ATi's was much better. Yet no mention of that anywhere.
QUAK was a cheat. It was the forerunner to what would become "Trylinear" in thr R3xx series, just like ATi's anisotropic optimizations first appeared on R2xx.
As for Baumann and I, it is all on public record @ B3D, here & nvnews (it all began with Dave visiting other forums and posting messages to people like me in the pre nv30 days).
As for hostility, I am never hostile towards someone who hasn't first displayed hostility towards me, so for those who have a problem with the way I treat them, I suggest a good look in the mirror may be in order. It's funny how those who start the nonsense get off scott free @ B3D (especially if they lean red) but those who dare to fight back in like manner get punished...
As for Baumann and I, it is all on public record @ B3D, here & nvnews (it all began with Dave visiting other forums and posting messages to people like me in the pre nv30 days).
As for hostility, I am never hostile towards someone who hasn't first displayed hostility towards me, so for those who have a problem with the way I treat them, I suggest a good look in the mirror may be in order. It's funny how those who start the nonsense get off scott free @ B3D (especially if they lean red) but those who dare to fight back in like manner get punished...
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 2,978
- 126
Back in 1999 was it? How is it relevant to anything today?
It was also fixed when a new driver came along and renaming the exe had no effect. Also the new driver improved performance.
It seems quite silly for a cheat to degrade IQ and degrade performance don't you think?
Totally wrong on multiple counts and as usual you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
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