• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

darnit, leave my drives ALONE win 8.x!

Elixer

Lifer
For people who dual boot (or more) between OSes, this has to be the most annoying thing ever.
If you have NTFS drives on your machine with say vista, and then reboot to go into win 8, it works as it should.
However, going back from win 8 back to vista, and it thinks all NTFS volumes are corrupted, and forces chkdsk on each volume.

Win 8's NTFS was updated, and it auto-updates the NTFS information on each volume, so that now, the older OS doesn't know what to do with the extra data, and does chkdsk on each NTFS volume.
*edit, this apparently was not the issue as jkauff mentions in the next post...

There doesn't seem to be a way to turn this off in win 8, so it is highly annoying, and a huge waste of time. 🙁

Don't suppose anyone knows of a registry key that can turn this 'feature' off ?
 
Last edited:
It's pretty well hidden under Power Options, but you'll find a link that says something like "What should the Power button do?" Click on that and disable Fast Boot. Since Fast Boot doesn't do a true shutdown/restart, it leaves the drives in "dirty" state, which causes chkdsk to run when you boot an older version of Windows. You'll be out of chkdsk hell in no time.
 
It's pretty well hidden under Power Options, but you'll find a link that says something like "What should the Power button do?" Click on that and disable Fast Boot. Since Fast Boot doesn't do a true shutdown/restart, it leaves the drives in "dirty" state, which causes chkdsk to run when you boot an older version of Windows. You'll be out of chkdsk hell in no time.
Now that's some very useful info. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
It's pretty well hidden under Power Options, but you'll find a link that says something like "What should the Power button do?" Click on that and disable Fast Boot. Since Fast Boot doesn't do a true shutdown/restart, it leaves the drives in "dirty" state, which causes chkdsk to run when you boot an older version of Windows. You'll be out of chkdsk hell in no time.

Interesting... next time I boot into 8, I will see if this works.
 
It is precisely because of this that if you dual-boot Windows, it won't let you boot into the other copy of Windows if you hibernated. When you boot after a hibernate, instead of showing you the menu, it will always resume the hibernated OS. If you get around this by, e.g., using Grub, using a different bootloader on another drive, or yanking a hibernated drive and putting it in another system, you'll see the kind of error that you saw here.

Fast Boot more or less replaces "shutdown" with "log off and hibernate". It's really designed for non-SSD systems, because the hibernation at "shutdown" is basically a single big sequential write, and the large amounts of random access at startup is now replaced by a sequential read. Much of its speed gain comes from this conversion of random access to sequential access, which means that for a SSD, the speed difference is virtually unnoticeable (it was only a split-second faster when I stopwatch-timed it).

I always disable fast boot on a SSD. And I'd probably still disable it for a non-SSD because I kinda like the cleanliness of a real shutdown/startup.

So I guess the problem here is that even though fast boot is essentially hibernate, the bootloader is not taking that into account. The bootloader should see a fast boot as a hibernate and refuse to offer the user the option to boot into the other OS as a result, and if it doesn't, then it looks like an oversight by Microsoft.
 
Thank you, this is very good to know and the fact that it's hidden and not very well explained isn't that great.
 
It is precisely because of this that if you dual-boot Windows, it won't let you boot into the other copy of Windows if you hibernated. When you boot after a hibernate, instead of showing you the menu, it will always resume the hibernated OS. If you get around this by, e.g., using Grub, using a different bootloader on another drive, or yanking a hibernated drive and putting it in another system, you'll see the kind of error that you saw here.

Fast Boot more or less replaces "shutdown" with "log off and hibernate". It's really designed for non-SSD systems, because the hibernation at "shutdown" is basically a single big sequential write, and the large amounts of random access at startup is now replaced by a sequential read. Much of its speed gain comes from this conversion of random access to sequential access, which means that for a SSD, the speed difference is virtually unnoticeable (it was only a split-second faster when I stopwatch-timed it).

I always disable fast boot on a SSD. And I'd probably still disable it for a non-SSD because I kinda like the cleanliness of a real shutdown/startup.

So I guess the problem here is that even though fast boot is essentially hibernate, the bootloader is not taking that into account. The bootloader should see a fast boot as a hibernate and refuse to offer the user the option to boot into the other OS as a result, and if it doesn't, then it looks like an oversight by Microsoft.

Who even dual boots Windows anymore? Fast boot is on of the whole points of Windows 8. Leave it alone and use VM's like normal people do in 2013. And "cleanliness"?
 
Who even dual boots Windows anymore? Fast boot is on of the whole points of Windows 8. Leave it alone and use VM's like normal people do in 2013. And "cleanliness"?

You can't use VMs for everything, you sacrifice speed, there are even programs that will not work on a VM (because of DRM).
 
Who even dual boots Windows anymore? Fast boot is on of the whole points of Windows 8. Leave it alone and use VM's like normal people do in 2013. And "cleanliness"?

With an SSD, you have fast boot anyway without having to put extra writes on your drive for no reason.
 
Who even dual boots Windows anymore? Fast boot is on of the whole points of Windows 8. Leave it alone and use VM's like normal people do in 2013. And "cleanliness"?

Doing a normal full boot from a decent SSD is faster than hibernate, including the partial hibernate "fast boot" of Windows 8.
 
Who even dual boots Windows anymore? Fast boot is on of the whole points of Windows 8. Leave it alone and use VM's like normal people do in 2013. And "cleanliness"?

I don't dual-boot now that virtualization has gotten pretty good, but I did dual-boot back in the day (this issue with altering the disk state during hibernation has been around for as long as hibernation existed, which predates VMs).

Dual-booting is not the reason I disable fast boot. As I explained, fast boot is designed for non-SSDs, and there isn't a substantial performance win by doing it on a SSD.

As for cleaniness, there are benefits to doing a clean shutdown. What if a driver or service is buggy and leaks memory? That will not get reset by a faux-shutdown. What if a bug breaks the internal state of a driver or service? That will not get reset by a faux-shutdown. Oh, and I wouldn't advise changing your hardware if you did a faux-shutdown.

And finally (and most importantly), fast boot just doesn't make sense from the perspective of a power user. Microsoft intended fast boot to replace both shutdown and hibernate in the UI. You'll notice that hibernate is missing from all the shutdown options. The dialog that disables fast boot can also restore hibernate to the shutdown menus. For a power user, separate hibernate/true-shutdown is far more useful. Most of the time, I use hibernate because why save only the system state? I want the user state saved as well, so that I don't have to reopen all my programs, scroll back to where I was, etc. That is a vastly more significant time-saver. There are only a few situations where a full hibernate (vs. the half-hibernate of fast boot's shutdown) isn't the best way to cut power, and in all of these situations, what I want is a true shutdown. For example, if I'm changing hardware.

Fast boot was really intended for the stereotypical technophobe who jots down instructions when you teach them to use the computer. They're people who have been taught long ago that when they are done, they need to close all their windows and then go "shut down". These people never select hibernate and don't really understand what the difference is between sleep, hibernate, and shutdown. I have family members who are like this. So Microsoft simplified it by merging hibernate with shutdown into something that really does not make sense for power users like us. People who browse forums like this are probably far better served by restoring the hibernate option, and getting rid of faux-shutdowns. I use sleep, hibernate, or reboot (which, BTW, uses true shutdowns) almost of the time, and the few times I need a shutdown are all situations where I need a true shutdown and not a half-hibernate.

I don't care if fast boot is a touted feature because I'm not the target audience. Those new tutorial boxes that pop up on the screen teaching you about the corners and how to use the OS are a touted feature too, yet killing them in group policy is one of the very first things I did when I installed 8.1.
 
Last edited:
Dual-booting is not the reason I disable fast boot. As I explained, fast boot is designed for non-SSDs, and there isn't a substantial performance win by doing it on a SSD.

As for cleaniness, there are benefits to doing a clean shutdown. What if a driver or service is buggy and leaks memory? That will not get reset by a faux-shutdown. What if a bug breaks the internal state of a driver or service? That will not get reset by a faux-shutdown. Oh, and I wouldn't advise changing your hardware if you did a faux-shutdown.

And finally (and most importantly), fast boot just doesn't make sense from the perspective of a power user. Microsoft intended fast boot to replace both shutdown and hibernate in the UI. You'll notice that hibernate is missing from all the shutdown options. The dialog that disables fast boot can also restore hibernate to the shutdown menus. For a power user, separate hibernate/true-shutdown is far more useful. Most of the time, I use hibernate because why save only the system state? I want the user state saved as well, so that I don't have to reopen all my programs, scroll back to where I was, etc. That is a vastly more significant time-saver. There are only a few situations where a full hibernate (vs. the half-hibernate of fast boot's shutdown) isn't the best way to cut power, and in all of these situations, what I want is a true shutdown. For example, if I'm changing hardware.

Fast boot was really intended for the stereotypical technophobe who jots down instructions when you teach them to use the computer. They're people who have been taught long ago that when they are done, they need to close all their windows and then go "shut down". These people never select hibernate and don't really understand what the difference is between sleep, hibernate, and shutdown. I have family members who are like this. So Microsoft simplified it by merging hibernate with shutdown into something that really does not make sense for power users like us. People who browse forums like this are probably far better served by restoring the hibernate option, and getting rid of faux-shutdowns. I use sleep, hibernate, or reboot (which, BTW, uses true shutdowns) almost of the time, and the few times I need a shutdown are all situations where I need a true shutdown and not a half-hibernate.

I don't care if fast boot is a touted feature because I'm not the target audience. Those new tutorial boxes that pop up on the screen teaching you about the corners and how to use the OS are a touted feature too, yet killing them in group policy is one of the very first things I did when I installed 8.1.

QFT... :thumbsup:
 
No issues booting back and forth between windows 7 and 8.1 for me and I run a hardware raid 1 array on my data drives. Drives mount and work seamlessly.
 
Dual-booting is not the reason I disable fast boot. As I explained, fast boot is designed for non-SSDs, and there isn't a substantial performance win by doing it on a SSD.
I did a real quick set of tests on my laptop (i5-3317, 8GB, 256 840 Pro) and my startup time is halved with Fast Startup on. That's not bad.

Off to Lock Screen times:
Fast Startup OFF 1: 00:19.72
Fast Startup OFF 2: 00:18.57
Fast Startup ON 1: 00:08.57
Fast Startup ON 2: 00:08.40

I didn't test shutdown times but I imagine that takes a hit. Couldn't tell subjectively, Windows shuts the screen off almost immediately for the hybrid shutdown but does to the Shutdown page for traditional. This makes hybrid at least look slower.

Of course, a full resume from hibernate does take 9.73 seconds...
 
I did a real quick set of tests on my laptop (i5-3317, 8GB, 256 840 Pro) and my startup time is halved with Fast Startup on. That's not bad.

Off to Lock Screen times:
Fast Startup OFF 1: 00:19.72
Fast Startup OFF 2: 00:18.57
Fast Startup ON 1: 00:08.57
Fast Startup ON 2: 00:08.40
Yea, it's going to vary from system to system. I tested my system last year, so I've since forgotten the exact times--just that they were under 10 seconds without fast startup, which left an impression, and that fast startup didn't really make it any faster. If you have a lot of services set to auto-start, that would affect the boot time. The more you have, the greater the differential.

My laptop, BTW, is a HP ProBook with Sandy Bridge i3, 16GB of RAM, and a 256GB 830. You have a much better spec'ed system than I, yet your normal startup time is twice mine; you might want to take a look at your services because it really shouldn't be that slow.


Of course, a full resume from hibernate does take 9.73 seconds...

And this is why I would use hibernate/real-shutdown even on non-SSD systems.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top