Darfur superthread: A collection of media items about the crisis in Sudan.

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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(July 10, 2008) Sudan Leader To Be Charged With Genocide

UNITED NATIONS, July 10 -- The chief prosecutor of the Internationals Criminal Court will seek an arrest warrant Monday for Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir, charging him with genocide and crimes against humanity in the orchestration of a campaign of violence that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in the nation's Darfur region during the past five years, according to U.N. officials and diplomats.

The action by the prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo of Argentina, will mark the first time that the tribunal in The Hague charges a sitting head of state with such crimes, and represents a major step by the court to implicate the highest levels of the Sudanese government for the atrocities in Darfur.

Some U.N. officials raised concerns Thursday that the decision would complicate the peace process in Darfur, possibly triggering a military response by Sudanese forces or proxies against the nearly 10,000 U.N. and African Union peacekeepers located there. At least seven peacekeepers were killed and 22 were injured Tuesday during an ambush by a well-organized and unidentified armed group.

Representatives from the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- met with U.N. officials Thursday to discuss the safety of peacekeepers in Darfur. U.N. military planners have begun moving peacekeepers to safer locations and are distributing food and equipment in case the Sudanese government cuts off supplies.

"All bets are off; anything could happen," said one U.N. official, adding that circumstantial evidence shows that the government of Sudan orchestrated this week's ambush. "The mission is so fragile, it would not take much for the whole thing to come crashing down."

Sudan's U.N. ambassador, Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem Mohamad, said rebels are responsible for the attack on U.N. peacekeepers, and insisted that Sudanese forces will not retaliate against foreign peacekeepers. However, he warned that the announcement of charges against Bashir or other senior officials would "destroy" international efforts to reach a peace settlement in Darfur.

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Older News

(April 28, 2008) Old problems haunt new U.N. peacekeepers in Darfur

(February 20, 2008) Sudan: United States Leading Global Response to Crisis in Darfur

(February 15, 2008) French FM hails new start of Chad peacekeeping deployment

(February 10, 2008) Sudan signs operating rules for UN-AU Darfur force

(December 25, 2007) Failure looms in Darfur

(October 3, 2007) Darfur Peacekeeper Fears for UN Force

(August 29, 2007) U.N. leader to travel to Africa to try and end Darfur violence

(August 1, 2007) Sudan says Darfur U.N. force resolution "practical"
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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How about you wait and see what happens before speculating. What has the US done about Darfur?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: senseamp
How about you wait and see what happens before speculating. What has the US done about Darfur?

The UN has a track record, and if the ROE are so ridiculous you may as well have hired the refugees themselves for all the good an unarmed military does. At least they would kill their assailants.

Originally posted by: yllus
China seems to be pushing for a removal of Chapter 7 authority for the troops, which apparently would allow them to do inconsequential things like defend civilians from attack.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Prediction: Failure, corruption, extended stay, and did I mention failure?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Can they drop some bombs on Mugabe on the way?

The rules of engagement some UN peacekeeping forces have is a damned travesty.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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Please tell me that 0 of these UN Peacekeeping forces will be Americans...

...this is a perfect chance for the rest of the world to show us imperialistic Americans how to do the job right.

Come on UN, us how it's done!!!

Chuck
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: chucky2
Please tell me that 0 of these UN Peacekeeping forces will be Americans...

...this is a perfect chance for the rest of the world to show us imperialistic Americans how to do the job right.

Come on UN, us how it's done!!!

Chuck
It looks like France, Denmark and Indonesia are willing to contribute soldiers, while Britain and the U.S. will strictly maintain a fiscal or logistical role. Germany, Australia and Canada will not contribute troops either. But this will mainly be an African-run affair.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,857
2,673
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Originally posted by: senseamp
How about you wait and see what happens before speculating. What has the US done about Darfur?

You mean like the Dems waited to see what happened with the troop surge instead of speculating? Oh wait....
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Originally posted by: yllus

It looks like France, Denmark and Indonesia are willing to contribute soldiers, while Britain and the U.S. will strictly maintain a fiscal or logistical role. Germany, Australia and Canada will not contribute troops either. But this will mainly be an African-run affair.

Fiscal or logistical role? Sorry, that's US being involved. The UN wants to go in, let them go in and get it done w/o US support. It's a good thing I think, they can get something done without us having to prop them up.

Don't forget, we need the major news networks to embed with them, do their splendiferic reporting of every fact (especially the ones where civilians are injured and/or killed by UN Peacekeepers, or Darfur isn't transformed into a utopia within 6 months of the UN Peacekeepers arriving, etc), and of course, the daily death toll numbers. No positive reports are allowed, period.

Then again, as others have noted, the risk of UN Peacekeepers actually killing anyone is low when you stand around and do nothing because the ROE's (which were put there purposefully like that) don't allow them to actually do anything useful.

Chuck
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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Originally posted by: chucky2
Originally posted by: yllus

It looks like France, Denmark and Indonesia are willing to contribute soldiers, while Britain and the U.S. will strictly maintain a fiscal or logistical role. Germany, Australia and Canada will not contribute troops either. But this will mainly be an African-run affair.

Fiscal or logistical role? Sorry, that's US being involved. The UN wants to go in, let them go in and get it done w/o US support. It's a good thing I think, they can get something done without us having to prop them up.

Don't forget, we need the major news networks to embed with them, do their splendiferic reporting of every fact (especially the ones where civilians are injured and/or killed by UN Peacekeepers, or Darfur isn't transformed into a utopia within 6 months of the UN Peacekeepers arriving, etc), and of course, the daily death toll numbers. No positive reports are allowed, period.

Then again, as others have noted, the risk of UN Peacekeepers actually killing anyone is low when you stand around and do nothing because the ROE's (which were put there purposefully like that) don't allow them to actually do anything useful.

Chuck
I'm going to extrapolate a little and make Prediction #2:

If this peacekeeping force is deemed unsuccessful, the reasoning will be that it is a failure because the deployed troops are mostly African, and we can't hold those silly child-like Africans accountable for what they do or don't do.

We've never insisted on the same level of standards from the 3rd world as the G-7. It's a wonderful 'out' when the inevitable failures occur.

 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Originally posted by: senseamp
Conservatives still pissed off that UN was right on Iraq.


LMAO, right about what? A liberal myself but found your position laughable at best, revisionist history combined with a denial of reality.

They all stated they believed Saddam still posed a WMD threat, had never fully complied, but more time was needed. They also agreed they were making far too much $ on the corrupted food for oil program there was no need to end the windfall. So what if 10-15 thousand Iraqis died every month during sanctions, soley from preventable neglect the UN oversight was supposed to eradicate. Who cares if a brutal, oppresive regime still maintained power, all they cared about was the money.

Were they right about no terrorists in Iraq, or was Powell?

http://www.michaeltotten.com/


Posted by Michael J. Totten at 09:55 PM | Comments (32)
March 09, 2006
Zarqawi Was Here
BIARA, IRAQ ? The PUK?s Minister of the Interior ordered 20 heavily armed Peshmerga soldiers to go with me to the borderland mountain village of Biara. For years the village was occupied by Ansar Al Islam, the Kurdish-Arab-Persian branch of Al Qaeda in Northern Iraq. Biara wasn?t the only village seized by the Taliban of Mesopotamia, but it was perhaps the most important. It is there that the Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had his last stand in Iraqi Kurdistan before the 2003 US-led invasion forced him out.

My Peshmerga weren?t really necessary. I told my translator Alan that I was embarrassed so many military resources were being spent on my account. I probably didn?t need any.

?It?s too much,? Alan said and laughed. He, too, was clearly embarrassed. ?It?s too much. The minister is doing this to be nice. He wants you to know that he cares about you.?

I introduced myself to some of my Peshmerga guards. There were so many it wasn?t easy to speak to them all. I had a hard time looking them in the eye. Jesus, I thought. These guys must think I?m the biggest wimp in the world. Biara isn?t actually dangerous. Zarqawi hasn?t been there for years. But it wasn?t my idea to bring them along. When the minister said ?I will send guards with you? I thought he meant maybe two guys. I cringed when I saw how many picked me up at my hotel in the morning.

Alan and I left Suleimaniya in a convoy. One truck bristling with Peshmerga led the way. Another truck followed. Heads turned as we drove through the small villages. Who might that be was the look on all the faces. I wanted to bury my own face in my hands. It?s just me! I?m not that important! It turned out, though, to be fun.


I don?t know if these guys actually thought I was a wimp because they had to come with me. They probably did. If so, they did a terrific job hiding it. Most likely they didn?t care. Driving up the mountains and into Biara surely beat boring checkpoint detail or whatever else they would have been otherwise doing.

We arrived in Biara and parked near the mosque founded long ago by a Sufi mystic from Turkey. Zarqawi lived in that mosque during the Ansar Al Islam occupation. I could tell most of the Peshmerga guys had never been there. They gawked at the mosque and at the mountains like tourists.

Their disposition had drastically changed since morning. At first they were all business. We will protect you said the look on their no-nonsense faces. Now they looked like boys. Cool! Field trip!

After a few oohs and ahs and the pointing of fingers they found a kebab shop and ordered some lunch. Alan and I went over to join them.

?I don?t have enough food for everybody,? the stunned shop owner said, clearly intimidated by the sheer volume of food he would have to prepare all at once. ?Try the tea shop down the street.?

Alan and I went to the tea shop down the street and settled in.


The proprietor happily made us Iraq-style tea (dark brown, overflowing, and packed with a wallop of sugar) and delicious kebabs.

There were a few other patrons in the tea shop and they eyed me, the obvious foreigner, with a mixture of curiosity and shyness.

?Do want to talk to some of these people?? Alan said. ?I?ll be happy to translate.?

Of course I wanted to talk. That was the reason I went there in the first place.

?Hello,? I said to two slightly goofy looking gentlemen sitting across the tea shop on the other side of the stove.

They both stepped across and we firmly shook hands.

?Do you want to know about life in Biara?? the one on the left said. He spoke perfect English and I did not need Alan to translate.

?Yes,? I said. ?Did you live here when the village was occupied by Zarqawi??

?I did,? he said. ?Life wasn?t good. We had no freedom. TV was banned. Women couldn?t walk outside without an abaya. There was violence. Anyone not affiliated with them was treated badly. During prayer time everyone was required to go to the mosque. If we didn?t go we were insulted and fined 50 dollars.?

50 dollars may not be a lot of money in the United States, but was a huge amount in a remote village in Iraqi Kurdistan while all of Iraq was under international sanctions. People needed the Oil for Food program just to stay alive.

?Did anyone here actually like Ansar Al Islam?? I asked.

?There were one or two very young people,? he said. ?I am from here. We never had anything like that before. I was joking with my friends in this tea shop. We were arrested, chained, blindfolded, and beaten. Laughing was banned.?

?They were like the Taliban,? his friend said.

?Did Ansar kill anyone here?? I asked.

?One person was tortured to death,? he said.

The tea shop owner joined the conversation.

?I was accused of being a member of the PUK,? he said, referring to the left-wing Patriotic Union of Kurdistan political party. ?So they put me in prison.?

Ansar Al Islam?s occupation of Biara and surrounding villages ended in 2003 when the Peshmerga launched a ground invasion with U.S. air support. Biara, including the Zarqawi-occupied mosque, was bombed from the air.

?How did you feel when the Americans bombed your village?? I asked the shopkeeper.

?We were waiting to get rid of them,? he said. ?We were desperate. They were the worst people ever. Many people had to close their businesses and leave this place.?

Two other men came into the tea shop. One wore a military uniform, the other wore civilian clothes. They kept to themselves at first, then came over to talk.

?Did you ever meet Zarqawi?? I asked the man in civilian clothes.

?Few people saw him,? he said. ?He covered his face with a cloth. He wasn?t the boss, though. Chafee was their commander. They had three commanders, actually. We are still afraid of them.?

Apparently the threat to this part of Iraqi Kurdistan isn?t quite over. Otherwise the minister of the interior would not have even thought to send Peshmerga guards with me. But the Islamists haven?t been back since the US and the Peshmerga drove them over the border into Iran. It was hard to imagine they would dare try to come back again without getting themselves killed the instant they arrived.

?When the US attacked,? he said, ?they escaped to an Iranian village. Then Iran sent them to Kirkuk. One guy was arrested in Kirkuk and sent back to Iran. Then Iran sent him back to Kirkuk again.?



 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
It is about time the international community got off their asshats and did SOMETHING. It will be interesting to see how well they fare, how quickly they can stabilize, and how humanely they will use this power.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Alistar7
It is about time the international community got off their asshats and did SOMETHING. It will be interesting to see how well they fare, how quickly they can stabilize, and how humanely they will use this power.

The UN has a great track record in Africa, oh wait.........

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,001
9,099
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Alistar7
It is about time the international community got off their asshats and did SOMETHING. It will be interesting to see how well they fare, how quickly they can stabilize, and how humanely they will use this power.

The UN has a great track record in Africa, oh wait.........

But we're about to be told "at least we're trying!". Just like we're trying in Iraq.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
How about you wait and see what happens before speculating. What has the US done about Darfur?
What has the world done for Darfur for that matter? The UN and world community, avoiding the term "genocide", because doing so compels the UN to action per its charter.

The UN does not have a very successful record when it comes to peacekeeping engagements in Africa...or anywhere for that matter...hence the skepticism.

Conservatives still pissed off that UN was right on Iraq.
Wow, you guys just can't seem to let a thread go without evoking Iraq. :cookie:

When has the UN ever been right? The Balkans, Somalia, Indonesia, tensions between Israel and her neighbors, ignored genocide in Africa...the UN does not represent the world community, because there is no international consensus on when the UN should deploy troops under its charter, and the rules of engagement for those troops...not to mention command and control of said troops once they deploy.

Similarly, 26,000 troops is not nearly enough manpower on the ground to change much of anything...all the UN can do is hope to secure a few save havens, and hope the local militias don't challenge them...as was the case in Bosnia, when UN troops largely stood by and watched genocide and murder happen outside the wire of their basecamps.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Is this the "lets pat eachother on the back over Iraq and mention UN failures in Africa" thread?

Of course it is, because it's all you got, "at least we're trying" is such a fucked up reason for what is happening in Iraq and none of you realize that.

You do not realize that UN failures do NOT make the US invasion of Iraq based on lies any more true or better? Stupid question, of course you don't get that, you are still rooting for Bushie the failure boy.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,036
6,598
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Is this the "lets pat eachother on the back over Iraq and mention UN failures in Africa" thread?

Of course it is, because it's all you got, "at least we're trying" is such a fucked up reason for what is happening in Iraq and none of you realize that.

You do not realize that UN failures do NOT make the US invasion of Iraq based on lies any more true or better? Stupid question, of course you don't get that, you are still rooting for Bushie the failure boy.

I thought it was the thread where lunatic fringe that supports the war in Iraq get to moan and grown like a bunch of defeatist Democrats over the hopeless disaster that will come upon a UN led war.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
Dont worry, once they ask politely and are ignored, they'll start a really nasty letter writing campaign. Surely Sudan wouldnt take it that far...would they??
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Dont worry, once they ask politely and are ignored, they'll start a really nasty letter writing campaign. Surely Sudan wouldnt take it that far...would they??

One thing you don't get, and i do know you don't get it because your the dumbest man i have ever came across in all of my time, is that the US is PART of the UN and one of the parts that can actually make a difference.

But the US wants to rule the world alone.

Sorry good old boys, it won't happen, you're welcome to try and fail.

You know, like in Iraq. :D
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Is this the "lets pat eachother on the back over Iraq and mention UN failures in Africa" thread?

Of course it is, because it's all you got, "at least we're trying" is such a fucked up reason for what is happening in Iraq and none of you realize that.

You do not realize that UN failures do NOT make the US invasion of Iraq based on lies any more true or better? Stupid question, of course you don't get that, you are still rooting for Bushie the failure boy.

I thought it was the thread where lunatic fringe that supports the war in Iraq get to moan and grown like a bunch of defeatist Democrats over the hopeless disaster that will come upon a UN led war.

Son, war is always a disaster, the question is if it's more of a disaster if it's led by the US based on complete and utter lies or led by the UN as requested by the country in question.

I may not know as much as you do about it but i think they did a good job in no less than 32 locations between 1985-2001, if i'm wrong you may correct me and i'll not have any hard feelings about it, if you've been a part of any of the missions you surely know more than me, i haven't.

I HAVE been in both Iraq and Afghanistan though so i do know a bit about that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,036
6,598
126
It is a pastime among American right wingers to laugh about how ineffective is the UN. This gives them a sense of superiority they badly need as they are motivated by feeling inferior. American clod busters have always felt intimidated and odd around their more civilized international friends. It's not enough for them to be optimistic and can do or generous in the extreme, to have created a very fine country and so many other good things, no they have also to feel inferior and puff themselves up like prize pigs and laugh at other people.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
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Prediction #3: If/When the UN fails in Sudan, many here will find some way to blame Bush.

bet!