Damned environmentalism run amuck

[tcsenter]

So my mother has asthma and has great results controlling her symptoms using Serevent and Combivent inhalers. The Serevent inhaler is no longer produced, replaced by a powder that you inhale (Serevent Diskus), except she and apparently many others are not receiving the same results from the powder. It works, it just doesn't work as well. She is measurably less tolerant of physical activity without increased respiratory effort.

The reason they have decided to discontinue the inhaler? It contains CFCs that are 'environmentally unfriendly' and the manufacturer was forced to reduce its use of CFCs by some environmental treaty. Kyoto I'm sure will bring even more unintended consequences.

Score one for enviro-extremism. Not to worry though, developing third world countries are allowed to pump-out enough CFCs to more than make-up for the reduction of CFCs by whacking old asthmatic ladies in the knee-caps.

 

[DurocShark]

 

[Gyrene]

I blame the hippies.

 

[Aharami]

yea but think about it....if US went with the mentality of "since they are doing it, we can do it too" the earth would be a lot less habitable today

 

[ggavinmoss]

Personally, I have better results with the "disk" athsma inhalers and they have the added bonus of letting you know how many doses are left. I'm sorry to hear that your mom isn't responding as well to the new medicine, athsma sucks the big one. How long has she been on it? Maybe her body isn't adjusted to the new-er delivery of the meds.

-geoff

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
So my mother has asthma and has great results controlling her symptoms using Serevent and Combivent inhalers. The Serevent inhaler is no longer produced, replaced by a powder that you inhale (Serevent Diskus), except she and apparently many others are not receiving the same results from the powder. It works, it just doesn't work as well. She is measurably less tolerant of physical activity without increased respiratory effort.

The reason they have decided to discontinue the inhaler? It contains CFCs that are 'environmentally unfriendly' and the manufacturer was forced to reduce its use of CFCs by some environmental treaty. Kyoto I'm sure will bring even more unintended consequences.

Score one for enviro-extremism. Not to worry though, developing third world countries are allowed to pump-out enough CFCs to more than make-up for the reduction of CFCs by whacking old asthmatic ladies in the knee-caps.

Dude, that is total cr@p. CFC free inhalers are all over the place. I have an A&H Ventolin Evohaler (Hardly used, execise induced only, 1 careful owner, $12 ono) in my pocket which is CFC free.

3M do a Generic one in the UK, too.

 

[tcsenter]

yea but think about it....if US went with the mentality of "since they are doing it, we can do it too" the earth would be a lot less habitable today

Well I was thinking more along the lines of "reducing CFCs is nice and all, but since there are like 100 million cars in the United States leaking CFCs all the time so that Americans can have a luxury such as air-conditioning, it doesn't make sense to hobble asthmatics who I'm reasonably sure like to breath at least as much as people like to be comfortable in their vehicles."

 

[Amused]

The whole "ozone hole" crap is really amazing. We have NO idea if the South Pole has EVER had a signifigant ozone layer to begin with, as we have NEVER seen it. When we first started looking at our ozone layer, we noticed a "hole" over the South Pole and ASSUMED what "caused" it.

Sorry, but it's all speculation based on fear mongering.

 

Well I was thinking more along the lines of "reducing CFCs is nice and all, but since there are like 100 million cars in the United States leaking CFCs all the time so that Americans can have a luxury such as air-conditioning, it doesn't make sense to hobble asthmatics who I'm reasonably sure like to breath at least as much as people like to be comfortable in their vehicles."

Please refrain from posting when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Automobiles do not use R12 anymore, they use R134A which is ozone friendly (Does not break ozone down).
R 12 was phased out in 1993.

 

[tcsenter]

Dude, that is total cr@p. CFC free inhalers are all over the place. I have an A&H Ventolin Evohaler (Hardly used, execise induced only, 1 careful owner, $12 ono) in my pocket which is CFC free.

An inhaler isn't an inhaler isn't an inhaler. What works for you doesn't work for everyone. She has been on a few other kinds of medications without good results.

I can find no CFC-free 'version' of Serevent which contains Salmeterol Xinafoate, except the aforementioned powder that doesn't work as well.

 

[her209]

Isn't CFC bad to be inhaling?

 

[Aharami]

what does it matter anyways...us humans are gonna destroy earth regarless of all the effort

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Aharami
what does it matter anyways...us humans are gonna destroy earth regarless of all the effort

There is no proof we are causing the antarctic "ozone hole" or that the lack of ozone has not always occured naturally there.

I mean, let's use common sense, shall we? The Ozone layer is produced by the sun splitting O2 molecules and the free atoms latching onto other O2 molecules creating O3 (Ozone). There are months of the year that the poles get very little to no exposure to sunlight.

It is only logical that late winter into spring, the ozone layers over the pole will shrink.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Let me state this again:

CFC Free inhalers are available. You do not have to use the disk system or rotocaps or any of that shite.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Dude, that is total cr@p. CFC free inhalers are all over the place. I have an A&H Ventolin Evohaler (Hardly used, execise induced only, 1 careful owner, $12 ono) in my pocket which is CFC free.

An inhaler isn't an inhaler isn't an inhaler. What works for you doesn't work for everyone. She has been on a few other kinds of medications without good results.

I can find no CFC-free 'version' of Serevent which contains Salmeterol Xinafoate, except the aforementioned powder that doesn't work as well.

The problem is not the environmentalists. We are a clever race; CFC-free inhalers can be created, so blame the company that will not create the CFC-free version. No reason not to do so.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Dude, that is total cr@p. CFC free inhalers are all over the place. I have an A&H Ventolin Evohaler (Hardly used, execise induced only, 1 careful owner, $12 ono) in my pocket which is CFC free.

An inhaler isn't an inhaler isn't an inhaler. What works for you doesn't work for everyone. She has been on a few other kinds of medications without good results.

I can find no CFC-free 'version' of Serevent which contains Salmeterol Xinafoate, except the aforementioned powder that doesn't work as well.

The problem is not the environmentalists. We are a clever race; CFC-free inhalers can be created, so blame the company that will not create the CFC-free version. No reason not to do so.

Yes, the problem IS the eco-nuts. There is no reason to phase out CFCs. And doing so is costing trillions of dollars worldwide, making refrigeration, air-conditioning and propellants even harder for the poor to afford and maintain. Freon has become a major black market item in the world now and is handled even worse than before.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Roger

Well I was thinking more along the lines of "reducing CFCs is nice and all, but since there are like 100 million cars in the United States leaking CFCs all the time so that Americans can have a luxury such as air-conditioning, it doesn't make sense to hobble asthmatics who I'm reasonably sure like to breath at least as much as people like to be comfortable in their vehicles."

Please refrain from posting when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Automobiles do not use R12 anymore, they use R134A which is ozone friendly (Does not break ozone down).
R 12 was phased out in 1993.

It's still very easy to get R12 to recharge your older cars a/c.

 

It's still very easy to get R12 to recharge your older cars a/c.

Really ?

Let's see, you need a license and be willing to pay $100 a pound.
By 2005, it will be impossible to buy it at all.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Roger

Well I was thinking more along the lines of "reducing CFCs is nice and all, but since there are like 100 million cars in the United States leaking CFCs all the time so that Americans can have a luxury such as air-conditioning, it doesn't make sense to hobble asthmatics who I'm reasonably sure like to breath at least as much as people like to be comfortable in their vehicles."

Please refrain from posting when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Automobiles do not use R12 anymore, they use R134A which is ozone friendly (Does not break ozone down).
R 12 was phased out in 1993.

Right on! You tell him like it is!

TSCenter must not have been educated to know all vehicles made before 1993 were confiscated by the government and destroyed - all those older cars are really just replicas people are driving.

 

[Pepsi90919]

a-m-o-k

 

[ndee]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Damned environmentalism run amock

The spelling nazis too.

 

TSCenter must not have been educated to know all vehicles made before 1993 were confiscated by the government and destroyed - all those older cars are really just replicas people are driving.

So you are trying to tell me that there are over 100 million cars in the US with leaking A/C that were built before 1993 ?

ROFLMFAO

 

[tcsenter]

Please refrain from posting when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Automobiles do not use R12 anymore, they use R134A which is ozone friendly (Does not break ozone down).

I was exaggerating...slightly. There are only a couple tens of millions of pre-1994 vehicles still in use in the United States, no more than 10% of which have been converted (MACS 2000 Survery), the rest are in fact leaking CFCs around the clock for luxury purposes. You are able to grasp the fact that when we ushered in the 1994 model year, all existing pre-1994 vehicles did not magically drop off the face of the planet, right?

R12 is still available and in use. I worked for an automotive distributor and we were shipping ~20lb cylinders of reclaimed CFC-12 as late as year 1999. Heck, it can still be imported legally, and smuggling of R12 manufactured after 1996 is booming.

In addition, there a number of commercial and industrial CFC-12 utilizing refrigeration devices still in use in the United States and will continue to be for years.

BTW, the "ozone friendly" R134A, while having negligible ODP (ozone depletion potential), has a significant GWP (Global Warming Potential).

Let me state this again: CFC Free inhalers are available. You do not have to use the disk system or rotocaps or any of that shite.

Let me state this again:

An inhaler isn't an inhaler isn't an inhaler. What works for you doesn't work for everyone. She has been on a few other kinds of medications without good results.

I can find no CFC-free 'version' of Serevent which contains Salmeterol Xinafoate, except the aforementioned powder that doesn't work as well.

 

I was exaggerating...slightly. There are only a couple tens of millions of pre-1994 vehicles still in use in the United States, no more than 10% of which have been converted (MACS 2000 Survery), the rest are in fact leaking CFCs around the clock for luxury purposes. You are able to grasp the fact that when we ushered in the 1994 model year, all existing pre-1994 vehicles did not magically drop off the face of the planet, right?

Show me that survey and a survey done today

You are still trying to tell me that tens of millions of pre 1994 vehicles with A/C are on the road and leaking ?
What have you been smoking ?
Assume that all of the "tens of millions" of vehicles are out on the road, now let's assume that all of them have A/C (That's a huge assumption), they leak say one pound of refrgerant per year, now to recharge with R12 would $200 per year, this is not economically feasible fpr most of the owners of the supposed tens of millions of vehicles.
What about the ones that have discharged completely ? Do you think someone is going to pay $500 to recharge with R12 ? LOL

R12 is still available and in use. I worked for an automotive distributor and we were shipping ~20lb cylinders of reclaimed CFC-12 as late as year 1999.

That was four years ago.

Heck, it can still be imported legally, and smuggling of R12 manufactured after 1996 is booming.

Really ?

Where did you hear about this ?, I'd like to know.

In addition, there a number of commercial and industrial CFC-12 utilizing refrigeration devices still in use in the United States and will continue to be for years.

Show me some documentation and then I'll believe this one.

BTW, the "ozone friendly" R134A, while having negligible ODP (ozone depletion potential), has a significant GWP (Global Warming Potential).

That's a pile of crap, show me proof.


I work on A/C every single day, not one of then has R12 in thier vehicles A/C.
Five years ago, yes I was converting R12 to 134a, but that was back then.

You still need a license to buy it, it still costs $100 a pound or more.

 

[tcsenter]

Roger

Show me some documentation and then I'll believe this one.

That's a pile of crap, show me proof.

So if I indeed meet all of these silly requests for "proof", I would think it only fair that I in turn get to request something of you:

1. Your admission that it was you who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about:

Please refrain from posting when you don't know what the hell you are talking about

2. A pledge that in the future you'll follow your own advice

Deal?