damn my UPS can start my fridge :o

[NeoPTLD]

They made computer peripherals real well in 90s. I think around the beginning of 2000, quality took a big dip as the price war skyrocketed.

I got an APC brand 1000VA UPS from a surplus store and installed a new battery. This thing is seven years old, but it's got some guts. I was able to start my 4.0cu ft refrigerator from UPS without complaining. Refrigerator compressor needs a huge amount of surge current to start up as you might have noticed from lights dimming in the house when the fridge kicks on.

My cheapo 350VA UPS is supposed to handle a typical workstation with a tower PC and a 17" monitor, but it barely handles a 15" and a PC. It will not even fire up a 17" monitor by itself.

 

[Ornery]

What did you use for a replacement battery? How physically big is it, and for how much?

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Ornery
What did you use for a replacement battery? How physically big is it, and for how much?

8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep
42lbs

I paid $55 for unit with a dead battery from a local surplus shop.
Battery was another $50. Replacement batteries for high-end UPS are often common among different manufactures and they're about half the retail price on eBay even after adding shipping.

To give you a realistic performance, from fully charged state, it runs my 1.4GHz Athlon T-bird rig w/ 2 7200 RPM and a 17" CRT for 45min before low battery alarm comes on.

It should be able to run a low-end Celeron machine w/ a LCD panel close to two hours.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Ornery
What did you use for a replacement battery? How physically big is it, and for how much?

8.5" high, 6.7" tall, 17.3" deep
42lbs

I paid $55 for unit with a dead battery from a local surplus shop.
Battery was another $50. Replacement batteries for high-end UPS are often common among different manufactures and they're about half the retail price on eBay even after adding shipping.

To give you a realistic performance, from fully charged state, it runs my 1.4GHz Athlon T-bird rig w/ 2 7200 RPM and a 17" CRT for 45min before low battery alarm comes on.

It should be able to run a low-end Celeron machine w/ a LCD panel close to two hours.

That is awesome.

I gotta get me one.

 

[Ornery]

8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

 

[Bullhonkie]

UPSes are awesome. We've got a SmartUPS 2200, two 1400's, and numerous 650 and under ones. The last time the power went out, we hardly even noticed. TV still worked. The floor lamp in the room was still on. All of the computers along with network/internet equipment still worked. It only lasted two hours or so but we could've easily gone a lot longer. I think just our flourescent floor lamp plugged into one of the 1400's would run for a week straight if we ever had a prolonged blackout situation. :Q

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Ornery
8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

The battery "pack" is made of two 12V 12Ah sealed lead acid batteries. They're connected in series to form one 24V 12Ah pack.

The OEM battery is a pack. If you use generic, you'll have to tape two 12V batteries together so it takes like five minutes more to install.

The next higher model is 1400VA and it takes two 12V 18Ah batteries and weighs 53lbs while having the same dimensions.

Edit: These UPSes are annoying. It makes a series of three beeps every minute and you can not silence it short of electrically bypassing the speaker.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Ornery
8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

I'm pretty sure it's harder to start a 1/2 or 3/4 or 1HP or whatever fridges use motor than it is to turn an car engine over.....

But yeah.

I would be impressed if it could say, umm.. hmm. I'll get back to you.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Ornery
8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

The battery "pack" is made of two 12V 12Ah sealed lead acid batteries. They're connected in series to form one 24V 12Ah pack.

The OEM battery is a pack. If you use generic, you'll have to tape two 12V batteries together so it takes like five minutes more to install.

The next higher model is 1400VA and it takes two 12V 18Ah batteries and weighs 53lbs while having the same dimensions.

Edit: These UPSes are annoying. It makes a series of three beeps every minute and you can not silence it short of electrically bypassing the speaker.

Hmmm.... 12Ah doesen't really seem like very much, at least when you consider that car batteries can have like 50+Ah.

I see. Hmm. We're all fousing on the battery for some reason. It doesen't have much to do with the battery, but more the inverter circuitry.

So if you took two 50Ah car batteries and hooked them up, could you effectivly tripple your capacity?

(I realize they would effectivly become external).

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Ornery
8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

The battery "pack" is made of two 12V 12Ah sealed lead acid batteries. They're connected in series to form one 24V 12Ah pack.

The OEM battery is a pack. If you use generic, you'll have to tape two 12V batteries together so it takes like five minutes more to install.

The next higher model is 1400VA and it takes two 12V 18Ah batteries and weighs 53lbs while having the same dimensions.

Edit: These UPSes are annoying. It makes a series of three beeps every minute and you can not silence it short of electrically bypassing the speaker.

Hmmm.... 12Ah doesen't really seem like very much, at least when you consider that car batteries can have like 50+Ah.

I see. Hmm. We're all fousing on the battery for some reason. It doesen't have much to do with the battery, but more the inverter circuitry.

So if you took two 50Ah car batteries and hooked them up, could you effectivly tripple your capacity?

(I realize they would effectivly become external).

If you put a mega sized battery, it would effectively increase the run time, but inverter circuitry is the limitation of the maximum VA you can use. Of course, charging circuitry is something you have to consider.

Car batteries aren't designed to be constantly(24/7/365) and drained to the bottom, so they'll die rather fast.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Ornery
8.5" tall, 6.7" wide, 17.3" deep 42lbs

Start a fridge, hell, that could start your car! Is it a gel cell?

The battery "pack" is made of two 12V 12Ah sealed lead acid batteries. They're connected in series to form one 24V 12Ah pack.

The OEM battery is a pack. If you use generic, you'll have to tape two 12V batteries together so it takes like five minutes more to install.

The next higher model is 1400VA and it takes two 12V 18Ah batteries and weighs 53lbs while having the same dimensions.

Edit: These UPSes are annoying. It makes a series of three beeps every minute and you can not silence it short of electrically bypassing the speaker.

Hmmm.... 12Ah doesen't really seem like very much, at least when you consider that car batteries can have like 50+Ah.

I see. Hmm. We're all fousing on the battery for some reason. It doesen't have much to do with the battery, but more the inverter circuitry.

So if you took two 50Ah car batteries and hooked them up, could you effectivly tripple your capacity?

(I realize they would effectivly become external).

If you put a mega sized battery, it would effectively increase the run time, but inverter circuitry is the limitation of the maximum VA you can use. Of course, charging circuitry is something you have to consider.

Car batteries aren't designed to be constantly(24/7/365) and drained to the bottom, so they'll die rather fast.

Yeah, I thought about charging stuff too, but I wasn't sure how it worked.

Are you trying to say that when the UPS is in use, the batteries are like fully drained or something? That doesen't really make any sense. Or just, if you run them to the bottom?...

At any rate, complete discharge will damage any battery, just like overcharging will. So that's not really an issue. I'm sure most UPS's have smart charger circuitry. I am sure they don't let the battery get down below a certain % capacity, or a certain voltage, to avoid battery damage.

I think the only real issue is that it would take the thing a long time to charge them up in the event that they were "fully" discharged. Maybe not though, I'm just thinking logically.

 

[KGB1]

:Q Better get it on over here, so it can jump start my car

 

[Eli]

Heh, I think I'll just make my own super-UPS.

Eight 55Ah 12V batteries(biggest I could find on eBay lol), and a 4000W 33A(78A surge) @ 48V Trace SineWave inverter W/ built in 3-stage charging system.

Hmm.. Too bad that woud be something like 2000$.

 

[sharkeeper]

Increasing the battery capacity on a UPS to increase runtime is synonymous to building up a car to go real fast without upgrading the brakes. :Q

Small UPS' have limited duty cycles especially at near full load conditions. As designed, the supplied batteries will die quickly when running at full load. This provides protection against overheating of the inverter heatsinks as they are passively cooled. Better inverters will use fans or water cooling to cool the inverter output transistors for continuous full load use.

This design known as uninterruptible battery system or UBS allows continuous run time. A generator powered by diesel, natural gas or nuclear energy on larger models will keep the battery banks charged at all times. This is the technology that keeps zero downtime tolerant operations such as firing rooms, 911 call centers, and even casinos online all the time.

Where it is permissible to expand the battery capacity is running the UPS at reduced load. Chances are your 1000VA unit would be able to support a 250VA load for long times, possibly continuous. The only way to tell is run the 12V input off a lab supply, disconnect utility power to the unit and use a load bank on the protected outlets while measuring the inverter heatsink temperatures. If the heatsinks get over 90C you will need to cut the load. Alternatively, one could add extra heatsink surface area and install fans or blowers.

Cheers!

 

[NeoPTLD]

Larger battery takes a lot more current to charge up. If the charging circuitry isn't current limited, it will be destroyed. If it's current limited, the limit may not be a sufficient current to initiate charging on a large battery bank.

The purpose of UPS is to give your computer a redundant protection in case of a power outage. I personally wouldn't modify it, because hack jobs tend to lower the reliability, is a fire hazard and what good is a UPS with a questionable reliability?

 

[Jeff7181]

Are there any companies that make conversion kits to use a car battery as a UPS for your computer? =)

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Eli
Heh, I think I'll just make my own super-UPS.

Eight 55Ah 12V batteries(biggest I could find on eBay lol), and a 4000W 33A(78A surge) @ 48V Trace SineWave inverter W/ built in 3-stage charging system.

Hmm.. Too bad that woud be something like 2000$.

bah, just get a load of cheapass transistors (2N3055 for example.. old as hell, high current, only costs $1) and set them up in big chopper.

then we still need a big transformer -easy enough, find a bigass old microwave.. rewind the huge transformer in it.


only problem now is finding some big cheap sealed batteries, hms..

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Are there any companies that make conversion kits to use a car battery as a UPS for your computer? =)

when the hydrochloric acid in car batteries react witht he led plates you get.. uh.. im not sure.. uh. 2hcl + pb2 + xo2= uh.. water and lead-chloride stuff? i havent taken chemistry in years.. whats on the other side of the lead plates.. im missing something.. i forget what though


anyways, a normal car battery emits rather nasty gases, thats why you need a sealed one for indoor use, unless you run little vent houses out the window. hehe

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: Eli
Heh, I think I'll just make my own super-UPS.

Eight 55Ah 12V batteries(biggest I could find on eBay lol), and a 4000W 33A(78A surge) @ 48V Trace SineWave inverter W/ built in 3-stage charging system.

Hmm.. Too bad that woud be something like 2000$.

bah, just get a load of cheapass transistors (2N3055 for example.. old as hell, high current, only costs $1) and set them up in big chopper.

then we still need a big transformer -easy enough, find a bigass old microwave.. rewind the huge transformer in it.


only problem now is finding some big cheap sealed batteries, hms..

I guess the word "Sine Wave" doesen't mean anything to you.

It's one thing to convert 12V to 120V. It's another to output a true, low noise, sine wave.

 

[manly]

So what model is that thing? I can't believe it runs your system and monitor for 45 minutes!

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Are there any companies that make conversion kits to use a car battery as a UPS for your computer? =)

when the hydrochloric acid in car batteries react witht he led plates you get.. uh.. im not sure.. uh. 2hcl + pb2 + xo2= uh.. water and lead-chloride stuff? i havent taken chemistry in years.. whats on the other side of the lead plates.. im missing something.. i forget what though


anyways, a normal car battery emits rather nasty gases, thats why you need a sealed one for indoor use, unless you run little vent houses out the window. hehe

It releases Hydrogen gas... but in VERY small amounts.

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: manly
So what model is that thing? I can't believe it runs your system and monitor for 45 minutes!

APC SUVS1000. They don't make it anymore. The newest model(if you don't mind paying $400) is true sine-wave, but mine's a trapezoid. Not quite sine, but better than modified square wave.

Something you should know about batteries is that it can give a lot more useful power when you oversize it greatly. If you're pushing the battery to the limit, doubling the battery size will more than double the usable time.

Larger UPS usually have larger batteries, so it's always good idea to significiantly oversize UPS.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Eli

I guess the word "Sine Wave" doesen't mean anything to you.

It's one thing to convert 12V to 120V. It's another to output a true, low noise, sine wave.

take a scope to the outputs of most inverters. yup. square-wave.

sine can be done, but its more of a PITA to implement

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: Eli

I guess the word "Sine Wave" doesen't mean anything to you.

It's one thing to convert 12V to 120V. It's another to output a true, low noise, sine wave.

take a scope to the outputs of most inverters. yup. square-wave.

sine can be done, but its more of a PITA to implement

Well duh. Did you even read my post? lol..

I specifically mentioned Trace's 4000W SineWave inverter. It's very expensive, that's why I quoted a price of 2,000$.

 

[OulOat]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

My cheapo 350VA UPS is supposed to handle a typical workstation with a tower PC and a 17" monitor, but it barely handles a 15" and a PC. It will not even fire up a 17" monitor by itself.

Mine doesn't even handle my 350W PSU