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Damn Liberals Corrupting Our Soldiers: US Soldiers have own most Wanted List Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
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Hmm...perhaps one of our residents commandoes can inform us if anything said in that article is against military policy.
 

Brie

Member
May 27, 2003
137
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ahh now it sounds like an American war ... I am still suprised that Jane Fonda hasnt gone over to Baghdad yet...:disgust:
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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The soldiers were deployed to Kuwait last September. They were among the first troops in Baghdad during the war. And now they've been in the region longer than other troops: 10 months and counting.
SUCK IT UP VOLUNTEER BOY!
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Brie
ahh now it sounds like an American war ... I am still suprised that Jane Fonda hasnt gone over to Baghdad yet...:disgust:
Jane is what... thirty five years older now... and she's long ago dumped Tom Hayden ... the real instigator ... and besides if Bridget goes to Iraq it would provide another focus for Mr. Bush's Admin to spin out of control and deflect focus from the important issues.

 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
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Originally posted by: Lucky
Hmm...perhaps one of our residents commandoes can inform us if anything said in that article is against military policy.
My answer is no. I've heard much worse at NCO calls outside of a combat zone. Just some good old-fashioned bitching by modern-day troops sans the profanity or expletives.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,054
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This is what drives people out of the service, promise rotation, extension, renege, and repeat.
Dosen't take long before you have lost troops through appathy.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This is what drives people out of the service, promise rotation, extension, renege, and repeat.
Dosen't take long before you have lost troops through appathy.
Yes sir, I agree. If the tempo stays the same, they are gonna have some serious retention problems.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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A good friend's husband was yanked out of Duke Law to serve as a SF Marine in Kuwait. He made a deposit at the sperm bank before he left.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
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Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This is what drives people out of the service, promise rotation, extension, renege, and repeat.
Dosen't take long before you have lost troops through appathy.
Yes sir, I agree. If the tempo stays the same, they are gonna have some serious retention problems.
You'll notice there was no criticism of anyone in uniform and that they were all enlisted soldiers. If I recall correctly enlisted soldiers are not forbidden from being critical of their civilian leadership whereas officers are. There is also a difference between what is said in an NCO mtg. and speaking to a reporter. Frankly I'm surprised the press is given this kind of access. In my experience it is more "controlled".

WRT deployments and OPTEMPO. Normally I have very little sympathy for people who whine about deployments but going to a war zone is altogether different. Drawdowns, no change in OPTEMPO and a good economy is what gave us the problems we had in the 90's. We need to be very careful here. Retention has been at all time highs since 2000 but that can quickly change with an improving economy. Especially among those who aren't used to constantly deploying.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,469
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Originally posted by: ClueLis
My cousin's over there. :(
Tell him I said thanks. I hope he gets out ok.

Sounds like the crew is getting to the hopeless point. Not even caring about the cute little children tossing rocks at you and calling you Satan in their own little language...
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
This is what drives people out of the service, promise rotation, extension, renege, and repeat.
Dosen't take long before you have lost troops through appathy.
Yes sir, I agree. If the tempo stays the same, they are gonna have some serious retention problems.
You'll notice there was no criticism of anyone in uniform and that they were all enlisted soldiers. If I recall correctly enlisted soldiers are not forbidden from being critical of their civilian leadership whereas officers are. There is also a difference between what is said in an NCO mtg. and speaking to a reporter. Frankly I'm surprised the press is given this kind of access. In my experience it is more "controlled".
LOL, if a commissioned officer mouthed off negatively to the press, I doubt his next evaluation report would be favorable. Yeah, I think enlisted have more "free speech" regarding various issues. The tolerance among the brass concerning such matters was increasing when I retired.

Also noted more "liberal" reporting regarding the attitudes in the ranks as of late. Reminds me of some media reports from the Vietnam era.

WRT deployments and OPTEMPO. Normally I have very little sympathy for people who whine about deployments but going to a war zone is altogether different. Drawdowns, no change in OPTEMPO and a good economy is what gave us the problems we had in the 90's. We need to be very careful here. Retention has been at all time highs since 2000 but that can quickly change with an improving economy. Especially among those who aren't used to constantly deploying.
After the last episode of Gulf War 1, I read that the average deployment time there was around 6.5 months for Army personnel, which seems about right. There were of course exceptions regarding longevity in theater. However, at the time, we were also just beginning a drawdown from a Cold War force and thus had about 40 percent more bodies without a "babysitting-the-bear" mission, so to speak.

If I'm not mistaken, some units currently in theater are now up to 11 months time away from home station. Based on my experience, there will be some problems when they return, which is typical. If the unit leadership is solid, then problems shouldn't be quite as bad. Still though, I estimate that a greater-than-normal amount of junior enlisted folks, especially those with families, will be saying enough is enough when it comes time for re-up.

And yes, if the economy improves, the services will probably experience a more difficult recruiting/retention environment.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,816
3,622
126
We punched the Tar Baby but he doesn't seem to melt. But with the imminent threat of a nuclear attack from Iraq, well we sorta had to act.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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It's not so much like we punched the Tar Baby as it is that Bush ramed his head up it's ass -
and was only constrained by not beeing able to get deeper by his sholders.
Either way he and his Cabinent can't see what's going on in front, beside, and around them
because they are in the dark, and will just be continuing to try to lie their way out of the mess they made.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,816
3,622
126
You can't lie your way out of Iraq. You either fix it or abandon it. My prediction will be the latter. They will claim it a huge victory, pull out, and let it collapse.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You can't lie your way out of Iraq. You either fix it or abandon it. My prediction will be the latter. They will claim it a huge victory, pull out, and let it collapse.
Just like Afghanistan. The American people have short memories and a high tolerance for BS.

I can't get over this quote.

"The aces in my deck are Paul Bremer, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and Paul Wolfowitz," he said.

Send the chickenhawks over there after we abandon Iraq.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You can't lie your way out of Iraq. You either fix it or abandon it. My prediction will be the latter. They will claim it a huge victory, pull out, and let it collapse.

I don't know if that would fit the "Big Picture"... No further US intervention would be "allowed" if we just up and split.. Besides, who would take over the power in Iraq... Iranian.... Shiites? The void would suck in the most entrenched of the Islamic minds with the ease of a tornado.. me thinks
 

Brie

Member
May 27, 2003
137
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You can't lie your way out of Iraq. You either fix it or abandon it. My prediction will be the latter. They will claim it a huge victory, pull out, and let it collapse.
You forget that the unfortunate president who will do this will be a D. Then all of the R's will say nah nah look Iraq is in chaos. :) War sounds like such a good idea at first but people forget the long term outlook.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,650
97
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You can't lie your way out of Iraq. You either fix it or abandon it. My prediction will be the latter. They will claim it a huge victory, pull out, and let it collapse.
and let the REAL terrorism begin. If Iraq didn't have alqueda links before, lord knows it'll be summer in hawaii for them if we abandon altogether.

the only resort is to turn it over to the UN, but then we don't get to control the oil revenues anymore.....
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,166
3,213
126
Originally posted by: burnedout
Well, hell. Guess the brass won't tolerate bitching to the media after all.

Link
The Unnamed Source is a wise person. :) Could be an easy way out though. :D
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
0
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Originally posted by: tnitsuj
From ABCNEWS.COM


Damn Liberals Corrupting Our Soldiers:
What is your major malfunction? :|

You have never been a soldier. You have no basis to shut the mouths of the soldiers who are there serving, and no basis or right to stifle the public from hearing their pleas. What makes that a liberal issue? Is conservativism then just a muzzle in freedom of speech? You have a major problem. boy. Thats dealing with reality. You are but a puppet mouthpiece of right wing extremists.

Get a life.:disgust:
 

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