Damn Civic having issues again - MESSED UP, NEED HELP!

[roguerower]

The same problem is back! GRRRRR!!!

At about 165kk miles I started having issues with my brakes. My front left caliper was binding and causing a pretty bad shake...but it was only sometimes and I'd pull off the road, turn off the car, pump the brakes, let it sit for a couple of minutes, and when I started up the car the issue would be gone. So I ended up replacing calipers, rotors, and pads at 170k miles.

Here I am at 200k miles and the same issue is creeping back. Not so violent this time, but every now and then I'll be driving down the road and I'll hear the brake start wearing on the rotor on every rotation of the wheel. Same issue, not every drive, and it'll go a couple hundred miles without it happening. But now the pad is starting to squeal.

What would be the underlying cause of this? Bad master cylinder?

The issue went away for about 20k miles and then came back.

EDIT: Took caliper off the rotor. Turned the car on and pressed the brake to see what's going on. Actuator did not return at all. Pressed brakes again and the actuator extended further and won't return. Can't push it back into place and now it's extended so far that it won't go over the rotor let alone the rotor and pads. What did I do?



No cursing in thread titles.

Anandtech Administrator
KeithTalent

 

[silicon]

The same problem is back! GRRRRR!!!

At about 165kk miles I started having issues with my brakes. My front left caliper was binding and causing a pretty bad shake...but it was only sometimes and I'd pull off the road, turn off the car, pump the brakes, let it sit for a couple of minutes, and when I started up the car the issue would be gone. So I ended up replacing calipers, rotors, and pads at 170k miles.

Here I am at 200k miles and the same issue is creeping back. Not so violent this time, but every now and then I'll be driving down the road and I'll hear the brake start wearing on the rotor on every rotation of the wheel. Same issue, not every drive, and it'll go a couple hundred miles without it happening. But now the pad is starting to squeal.

What would be the underlying cause of this? Bad master cylinder?

The issue went away for about 20k miles and then came back.

worn brake pads? have you changed the brake fluid ever? What about lubricating thre caliper pins and making sure everything is rust free and moving smoothly. Also is the brake pedal releasing completely with no pressure on the pedal?

 

[roguerower]

worn brake pads? have you changed the brake fluid ever? What about lubricating thre caliper pins and making sure everything is rust free and moving smoothly. Also is the brake pedal releasing completely with no pressure on the pedal?

The pads are probably worn if they're squealing. I'm heading to Advance after work to pick up a new set. I'll take a look at the calipers when I pull it off...like I said, they're only a year old. The pedal is releasing completely. Maybe a kinked or worn line that isn't letting the caliper "release" completely?

 

[MiataNC]

The calipers have slide pins to allow them to release and adjust as pads wear. If the calipers are sticking, the pads may stay engaged even with your foot off the pedal. Also rusted/pitted pistons in the calipers can cause pads to stay engaged after releasing the brakes.

Pull the calipers and inspect the slide pins (clean/lube as necessary). Also inspect the pistons and piston seals. If you see rust/pitting, it is time to rebuild/replace the calipers.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, if you didn't properly clean/grease the caliper pins that's most likely the problem.

 

[roguerower]

Roger that. Recommended lube? Regular silicone or grease?

 

[NutBucket]

Special grease available at the parts store. I forget what kind it is. Should be available in small packets.

 

[WoodButcher]

Did you replace the rubber line that runs to the caliper? The rubber degrades over time, collapses and clogs.

 

[silicon]

Did you replace the rubber line that runs to the caliper? The rubber degrades over time, collapses and clogs.

I'll second this comment about the rubber lines to the caliper, they can be damaged inside and restrict the flow of brake fluid especially when the pedal i released.

 

[roguerower]

Alright. Bought new pads at Advance and the grease for the pins.

The rubber hose does sound like a likely culprit. Like I said, I replaced calipers, rotors, pads, and flushed the brakes about 30k miles ago, but didn't touch the hoses. Looks like I'll replace those and see if the combination hose/pins fixes it.

Just to get some confirmation...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1620368&cc=1373217

This is what I'm looking for? I looked for "Brake Lines" but just got "hydraulic hose".

 

[MiataNC]

Looks right.

 

[WoodButcher]

That would be the part I spoke of, that drawing the banjo bolt goes through the top and into the caliper. Can't say it's the part for your car as I didn't look it up.
Before you take them off disconnect from the caliper and pinch them closed w/ vise grips to give yourself time to clean out the calipers. Take the zerks out and find a hose that will fit in the hole so you can back flush the caliper a bit. Use a funnel into that hose and run fluid through the caliper backwards. If you have rubber left in the cylinder it will cause you trouble. When you reassemble only put the zerks in finger tight and take them completely out and gravity bleed at first to be sure the calipers are clean clean.

 

[roguerower]

That would be the part I spoke of, that drawing the banjo bolt goes through the top and into the caliper. Can't say it's the part for your car as I didn't look it up.
Before you take them off disconnect from the caliper and pinch them closed w/ vise grips to give yourself time to clean out the calipers. Take the zerks out and find a hose that will fit in the hole so you can back flush the caliper a bit. Use a funnel into that hose and run fluid through the caliper backwards. If you have rubber left in the cylinder it will cause you trouble. When you reassemble only put the zerks in finger tight and take them completely out and gravity bleed at first to be sure the calipers are clean clean.

Whoa, roger that. If that looks right then it's the correct part. So just to get this right...

1. Pinch hose shut with vise grips
2. Disconnect hose from caliper
3. Unscrew zerk fitting
4. Flush caliper with brake fluid from the drain to the hose attachment (backfeed)
5. Put zerk fitting back in finger tight.
6. Install new hoses
7. Unscrew zerk fitting
8. Flush caliper with brake fluid to ensure caliper is clean
9. Screw zerk fitting back in
10. Repeat on other side
11. Put brake fluid in system and flush the brakes

Sound about right?

 

[silicon]

what about damaging the hose when its pinched with vise grips?

 

[WoodButcher]

Yepper! something along those lines. I imagine once all tools are in hand you'll change up a bit but you have the idea. I get confused sometimes reading my own writing but you read this feeble mind just fine...

Wait a minute, I just read your sig,,,
You ride,
You must have fell on your head once or twice too to understand me.

When you put on the new lines be sure the cap is on the master cylinder, in fact anytime your not meaning to bleed. If you don't let the system drain out it is easier to flush and bleed liquid than a system w/ air bubbles.

 

[roguerower]

what about damaging the hose when its pinched with vise grips?

Replacing the hoses...

Yepper! something along those lines. I imagine once all tools are in hand you'll change up a bit but you have the idea. I get confused sometimes reading my own writing but you read this feeble mind just fine...

Wait a minute, I just read your sig,,,
You ride,
You must have fell on your head once or twice too to understand me.

When you put on the new lines be sure the cap is on the master cylinder, in fact anytime your not meaning to bleed. If you don't let the system drain out it is easier to flush and bleed liquid than a system w/ air bubbles.

Not so much the riding that's done it, more the skydiving!

Thanks for the tip. When I disconnect the hoses from the master cylinder will it drain out? I.e. I'll have to do a complete refill of the system?

 

[WoodButcher]

Yes if the cap is off it should drain out. Kind of like a hamster water bottle, with the cap on it will create vacuum and should only drip a little. You'll want to flush those front lines good to be sure there are no particles of rubber because when you use the brakes and let off the fluid returns back into the lines. I don't know if your system separates the front and rear reservoir like my vans do but it won't hurt to bleed the snot out of the front and rear after you are certain the front is clean.

 

[roguerower]

Definitely think it's a hose/blockage issue. Got home, took the wheel off. Pried the caliper off the rotor and after getting my roommate to push the brake, this is what I got:


photo sharing sites

The caliper failed to return to "rest" position. Additionally, you can see the actuator side pad is worn to almost nothing while the non-active pad is still in good shape. I'm gonna replace the pads tonight and replace the hoses when they get here on Friday.

 

[roguerower]

Yep...definitely fucked up. Caliper is frozen now and leaking brake fluid. New hoses come in Friday. Gonna get a rental car tomorrow so I can still go on my trip. Gonna run to Advance tomorrow and get a replacement caliper. Replace everything Sunday when I get home. Luckily the new caliper isn't that much more expensive than RockAuto.

 

[WoodButcher]

Doesn't move back w/ a c-clamp? Dumb question but is the res cap off?

 

[someone16]

The same problem is back! GRRRRR!!!

EDIT: Took caliper off the rotor. Turned the car on and pressed the brake to see what's going on. Actuator did not return at all. Pressed brakes again and the actuator extended further and won't return. Can't push it back into place and now it's extended so far that it won't go over the rotor let alone the rotor and pads. What did I do?

You pressed on the brakes before putting everything back together? What do you mean by actuator? the caliper piston?

 

[master_shake_]

does your car have a metal piece holding the brake hose at the bad caliper?

 

[silicon]

Definitely think it's a hose/blockage issue. Got home, took the wheel off. Pried the caliper off the rotor and after getting my roommate to push the brake, this is what I got:


photo sharing sites

The caliper failed to return to "rest" position. Additionally, you can see the actuator side pad is worn to almost nothing while the non-active pad is still in good shape. I'm gonna replace the pads tonight and replace the hoses when they get here on Friday.

The caliper piston won't retract on its own for a disk brake. They are designed to only go back a mm or 2 to remove pressure from the brake pad. there is no return springs unlike a wheel cylinder on a drum brake.

 

[Scarpozzi]

The caliper piston won't retract on its own for a disk brake. They are designed to only go back a mm or 2 to remove pressure from the brake pad. there is no return springs unlike a wheel cylinder on a drum brake.

This... I agree with the C-clamp approach or using 2 of them. I typically just lay a wrench handle sideways where the rotor typically would be and then use another as a pry to force the caliper back. When you push on it, you're forcing fluid back up the line... Think about trying to blow air into a balloon. It's much harder at first, but gets easier....same concept with moving hydraulic fluid...once it starts moving, don't stop...keep pushing on it.

Check your pads. If they're wearing more on one side of the rotor than the other, you may just have a stuck caliper. I'd start by making sure you grease both of the bolts that hold it in place and all lube points so everything moves freely. Typically, there are rubber boots that hold the grease in place around those bolts and keep dirt out(if the assembly on a honda has them...I haven't changed the brakes on a civic in 5-6 years).

 

[roguerower]

Doesn't move back w/ a c-clamp? Dumb question but is the res cap off?

Didnt have a C-clamp to attempt it. I tried prying on it, beating on it, etc. with no success. Now the piston's boot has come off. The res cap is on.

You pressed on the brakes before putting everything back together? What do you mean by actuator? the caliper piston?

Yes and yes.

This... I agree with the C-clamp approach or using 2 of them. I typically just lay a wrench handle sideways where the rotor typically would be and then use another as a pry to force the caliper back. When you push on it, you're forcing fluid back up the line... Think about trying to blow air into a balloon. It's much harder at first, but gets easier....same concept with moving hydraulic fluid...once it starts moving, don't stop...keep pushing on it.

Check your pads. If they're wearing more on one side of the rotor than the other, you may just have a stuck caliper. I'd start by making sure you grease both of the bolts that hold it in place and all lube points so everything moves freely. Typically, there are rubber boots that hold the grease in place around those bolts and keep dirt out(if the assembly on a honda has them...I haven't changed the brakes on a civic in 5-6 years).

If you look at the photo, you'll see that the piston side is WAY more worn thans the tire side pad. I checked the pins and they moved easily and freely. Like I said, im just going to get a new caliper and replace the hoses, caliper, and bleed the whole system with new fluid. I think ive fucked up the caliper too much to push it back into place.