damaged GTX 460? (blue screen on startup)

[amar4nt]

Hello everyone!


I have a problem with my GTX 460 that occurred shortly after cleaning the inside of my computer. My Acer M7811 hasn't been cleaned for a couple of years. I used extensive amount of compressed air in cans to blow out the dust.

Prior to cleaning I faced some very rare blue screens and just as rare situations when my screen froze and I had to force restart.

After clean up everything was nice and quiet. I used 'Speccy' to check the temperatures on different components and they seemed pretty much the same when browsing internet etc.
No major changes were made software-wise; all the drivers were there already together with a fresh Windows 7 Home Premium. Regarding hardware I added some more matching RAM (upgraded from 4 GB to max of 8 GB).


After two days problems started:

1. The monitor turned off suddenly saying ' The current input timing is not supported by the monitor display. Please change your input timing to 1920x1080 60Hz or any other monitor listed timing as per this monitor specifications'

2. after that I managed to access Windows two or three times, once being able to access 'Specc' again. It showed the same low temperatures as before. Each time everything froze together with the cursor within 5 minutes and I had to force restart.

3. Startup repair kicked in at some point trying to repair the problem. It failed and informed of a problem signature 6.1.7600.16385

4. After that the screen went black each time right after 'Starting Windows'. During the last time it went black I could hear the sound of the system starting and the GPU fan blowing air very loud

5. On the next restart I encountered a blue screen saying that 'attempt to reset the display driver and recover from timeout failed'. A file was also mentioned – 'nvlddkm.sus'. In the background, there were also some... dots? It wasn't just a solid blue colour, there were some weird striped patterns made of light blue dots.

6. Blue screen happened each time from now on when trying to start Windows normally.

7. When entering BIOS after pressing DEL I could also see that weird pattern made of dots in the blue background. In BIOS they were black and they appeared in horizontal stripe

8. I can access Windows in 'Safe Mode' without any problems

9. I decided to format system partition and reinstall Windows again. It works in low resolution without the GTX 460 drivers. After installing them, blue screen appears again

10. Tried GPU drivers ranging from the latest to oldest accessible (early 2015). No change

11. I enclose a screen from GPU-Z showing some details
http://postimg.org/image/napqbhf9f

12. I ejected the GPU, tried to clean the golden bits, spray some more air, make sure it is fully inserted. The only change it made was some blue dots in the background during the 'American Megatrends' startup screen. Happened once, though.

13. All the above happened when my monitor (Dell E2310Hc) was connected with the bottom GPU slot. If I plug the cable in the upper one there is no blue screen happening after 'Starting Windows' screen; instead of that the monitor turns off and shows the prompt mentioned above in point 1. With the cable in the upper slot I cannot access 'Safe mode'

14. Lastly Ia opened the card itself, removed the bits of dust left and applied new thermal paste. I did not see any visible damage but I might enclose photos. Same as before, the only novelty were some stripes of blue dots on one of the first startup screens. They seem to appear when the card is removed and put back in again.


Anyone has an idea what might have happened?

 

[DooKey]

I believe it was just a coincidence that you started having these problems after cleaning the system 2 days prior. It sounds to me like your video card is nearing death. The GTX 460 is pretty old so you definitely got great bang for your buck.

You could try the baking the video card trick because it might just be a bad solder joint or two causing this issue. Look it up on Google and you'll see what I'm talking about when I say bake it.

 

[TourGuide]

I agree with DooKey.

If you're still in troubleshooting mode then you need to determine for sure that the GPU is the problem (I'd say probably so) by swapping out the 460 for a known good working GPU. Until you get that installed and it works without issue - you don't really know for SURE that the 460 is the culprit.

 

[amar4nt]

DooKey - I must say you surprised me with the concept of 'baking' and I will definitely look into that. Thanks!

TourGuide - I will try to access some other GPU soon and do as you advised!

 

[amar4nt]

Regarding using a previously 'baked' card - what are the odds of damaging the rest of the computer (motherboard etc) ?

 

[DooKey]

As long as you do it right then it shouldn't be a problem at all. It only stays in the oven long enough to reflow the solder joints then you take it out to cool off. Do lots of research through google and you will find the proper way to do it.

 

[matrixshark]

I baked an old 8800 series card once years ago. It worked like a champ and fixed the card perfect..... but after a month or so started having issues again. Either way, it was a fun experiment and was cool to breathe new life into a dead old card.

 

[amar4nt]

Many thanks for sharing a bit of your wisdom, guys!

In the meantime, I did some tests and I found something weird happening with my RAM modules.

I have 4 RAM slots: 2 white and 2 black.
When I insert all of my 4x2GB modules and fill all the black and white slots it seems to work fine and the system is showing 8GB.
But if I use only 2x2GB then I have to place them in the black ones cause the computer beeps and doesn't start if I leave them in the white ones.
If I use a single module - 1x2GB computer beeps and doesn't start, doesn't matter which slot I leave it in (applies to all of my memory modules).
You reckon the above is normal or...?

Also I used memtest86+ to check if my RAM is okay but that is still running and might take another day or two to finish!


Due to the above I thought that before I bake the old or buy a new card I'll try to enable the integrated display adapter on my motherboard just to see if the problems cease to exist or - hopefully not - the damage is bigger than I expected.

Below you can find a link to a screen showing the dotty artefacts:
postimg.org/image/wn1qn3xgt/

I removed the DVI cable and connected the motherboard with the monitor using a VGA cable...
- with installed latest GTX 460 drivers
- with installed VGA Nvidia drivers from ACER's website (there were two, one proved incompatible before installation could start)
- with all display drivers removed

In all of those cases the monitor darkened and displayed 'No DVI-D cable' and that's it.

When pressed some buttons on my Dell monitor and changed 'Input Source' from DVI-D to VGA the monitor stays black with a prompt saying 'there is no signal coming from your computer; to change to another source press the monitor button again'

When I ejected GTX 460 and left the blue VGA cable connecting the motherboard with the monitor the computer didn't start and the motherboard kept beeping with 1 long and 2 short beeps.



Device Manager > Display adapters
- without drivers it shows only 'Standard VGA Graphics Adapter'
- with drivers it shows only 'GTX 460'
If I disable the device and restart the computer, it shows as 'disabled' but I didn't notice any changes.



I cannot find any important manuals regarding my motherboard. All the specifications mention only 'Aspire M7811' as the name and googling the two numbers I found on the motherboard doesn't return any results. There is only one pdf on Acer's website but it's worthless and full of trivial info.

Some specifications found on the internet say M7811 has a 'discrete' graphics card.



I also checked BIOS if there any display options but I can't see anything. I am posting some of the tabs here just in case one of them proves important. Apologies if it doesn't!

This BIOS version is P01-B2, it has been released on 4/29/2010
At the bottom it says American Megatrends v02.66 1985-2010. On the top it says 'CMOS Setup Utility'

Advanced Chipset Features (all enabled):
- Intel Eist, Intel XD Bit, Intel VT, Inter(R) TurboMode tech, Memory Hole Remapping

Advanced BIOS features:
- Quick Boot (enabled), Quiet Boot (enabled),1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Boot Devices, then Hard Disk,
Optical Disk, Removable Device and Network Priority, Bootup Num-Lock (on) and USB Beep Message
(disabled)

Integrated Peripherals:
- Onboard SATA Controller (enabled)
- Onboard SATA Mode (RAID)
- Onboard eSATA Controller (enabled)
- Onboard USB Controller (enabled)
- Legacy USB Support (enabled)
- USB Storage Emulation (Auto)
- Onboard Audio Controller (Enabled)
- Onboard LAN Controller (Enabled)
- Onboard LAN Option ROM (Disabled)

Power Management Setup
- ACPI Suspend Mode [S3 (STR)]
- Deep Power Off Mode (Enabled)
- Power On by RTC Alarm (Disabled)
- Power On by PCIE Devices (Disabled)
- Power On by Onboard LAN (Disabled)
- Wake Up by PS/2 KB/Mouse (Enabled)
- Wake Up by USB KB/Mouse (Enabled)
- Restore on AC Power Loss (Last State)

Frequency/Voltage Control
- Enable Clock to All DIMM/PCI (Enabled)
- Spread Spectrum (Enabled)



My goal now is to try the integrated display adapter in order to make sure those dots and blue screens are related to my GTX 460. I have no idea though how I should approach this.

1. Should there be two devices showing in the 'Device Manager'? Should I uninstall the only device that is showing up at the moment?
2. Should I update BIOS? I could not see any new updates in the driver section on Acer's website.
3. I read about hardware switches that you need to flip in order to use the integrated graphics support.. Do you reckon that's the case with my motherboard? If so, how can I find it? I was looking at it for a while but can't see a damn thing.


Thanks for getting to this point. Perhaps someone encountered similar problems and could share some wisdom?

 

[amar4nt]

I see my big ass post scared off everyone

 

[dualsmp]

You might also try discharging the CMOS with a jumper. Make sure to write down or remember your BIOS settings before doing so. Sometimes discharging it can get rid of random gremlins.

 

[Raduque]

I would consider changing out the PSU before throwing my GPU into the oven. Bad power can make a PC do very strange things.

 

[TourGuide]

The issues you've described initially 'sound' like a bad display adapter. Certainly the screen corruption is due to something going on there. I've had corruption issues in the past that were simply heat problems. Once the card's cooling got cleaned out - then things returned to normal.

Bad memory modules can cause a whole host of things to go wrong. The testing and verification of good working modules should be done ONE module at a time. It takes a LOT of time to do right.

When you're trying to get the onboard display working you should remove the 460 physically and through software in the device manager. Usually this forces the display to the onboard by default. Unless you have somehow disabled onboard display though the BIOS this should work. You should not have to do any other special software removal after this - or any installation of VGA drivers as the windows default driver should be perfectly adequate for troubleshooting.

There also may be motherboard issues at work too. Those are much more effectively determined with a motherboard swap - using a known good board.

 

[Raduque]

TG, before any other troubleshoot, I always look at the PSU. I've had bad ones over the years and they always did various weird things. One failing PSU affected general stability like a flaky overclock - as soon as the system went under load, it would reboot. Another one gave me graphical corruption like a failing GPU.

Always test/replace at the PSU first.

 

[TourGuide]

TG, before any other troubleshoot, I always look at the PSU. I've had bad ones over the years and they always did various weird things. One failing PSU affected general stability like a flaky overclock - as soon as the system went under load, it would reboot. Another one gave me graphical corruption like a failing GPU.

Always test/replace at the PSU first.

I agree with that - Unless there is significant reason to suggest some other avenue - testing components in a 'least cost to troubleshoot' order makes good sense.

 

[David C]

amar4nt,

If you have resolved this problem, it would be nice if you would post your solution.

The problem is very likely the GTX460. Back when this card was new, a lot of people were having display failure problems. Updates to drivers did not help. I even RMA'd one GTX460 and it was sent back after a few weeks with no mention of what if anything had been done in way of service/repair. I had same problems with a second GTX460. So many frequent failures that it became impossible to maintain SLI use.

I resolved my card issues by putting both cards on the shelf (big waste of money at the prices I paid for the cards) and installing ATI Radeon cards. No display problems ever since the swap. I would suggest that if you have not yet found relief, that you try a different design card -- can you borrow one for a test?

 

[Doom2pro]

You could try the baking the video card trick because it might just be a bad solder joint or two causing this issue. Look it up on Google and you'll see what I'm talking about when I say bake it.

Highly unlikely, the balls almost never fail unless caused by physical damage (I.E. dropping)...

The oven won't even reach the melting point of the ROHS Lead-Free solder used, which can require temperatures as high as 400C, and even a 500F oven only gets to 260C, and you will likely kill any electrolytic capacitors on the card if there are any (even vent-less solid looking caps can be liquid electrolytic).

The only reason this technique sometimes temporarily "repairs" these failed cards is because the problem lies not in the BGA solder balls, but the micro-bumps connecting the GPU silicon die to the organic package and heating to even below melting point causes them to change shape, sometimes causing the aged, work hardened, electro-migrated & pitted solder bumps to temporarily reconnect and or clear shorts which enables the GPU to function again for a short period of time.

Whenever I am "reflowing" a BGA chip, it's usually done as a last resort, and only to confirm a microbump problem, instead of a board fault.

Such "repairs" don't typically last very long, and eventually no amount of heating will fix it, not without removing the silicon die from the substrate, removing the old solder and re-bumping it, which is something so precise not even a $6,000 reflow/reball station is capable of, only the packaging company that assembled it has the equipment to do this.

And if you have to ask how much that would cost (assuming they would even entertain the idea), you can't afford it.