Daddy bought a 17 year old son a Viper, totaled in less than a day, passenger dead

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iskim86

Banned
Jul 6, 2001
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www.isaackim.org
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: SithSolo1
First of all I love how this went from:

"17 yr wrecks new Viper, passenger dies"

to

"17 prick killed best friend when he gunned it in to a telephone pole, HE'S THE ONE that should have died, all people with money are stuck up elitist bastards and should be wiped from the face of the earth and the father should die in a vapor of super heated particles"

1. We still don't know that the father bought the car specifically for the kid. You are assuming he did because it would justify your hate for the rich. Well I'm gonna assume that the father bought his dream car and finally caved in to the pleading of his son to drive it.

2. Yes, odds are the kid was trying to do something he shouldn't have been doing when the wreck happened but the friend should have be wearing a seat-belt. The friend made that choice, not the driver.

3. Lots of people get cars when they are young. Some are poor, some are not. My best friend got a Honda Accord as his first car and totaled it within 5 months, then rolled a Mercury Cougar, and now drives an Expedition. I'd say he's lower middle-class. On the other end I know a girl that went through 2 4-Runners and a Lexus while she was 17. I'd say her family is lower-upper. Powerful cars don't make you a bad driver either. My little brother got an STi for his 15th birthday and he hasn't wrecked it yet. Money and the car don't make you a good or bad driver, you do.

Your parents are stupid. A 15 year old has no business behind the wheel of a car with 300hp.

BTW-No, money and the car don't make you a good or bad driver but experience makes you a better driver or at the very least a responsible driver.

a 15 year old has no business behind the wheel of a car with 300hp? I guess it depends on how careful that 15 year old teenager is. "your parents are stupid"? um wow.
 

pilryu

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2005
22
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Why are people jumping to conclusions about the father?

If I had the money to buy my son a viper (if I even had a son :) ), I would!!!
But I would teach him how to drive it safely, and how to be a responsible adult as well.

Just because the accident happened mere hours after the purchase, dont' be so quick to judge the father's sanity. Maybe the father trusted his son to be a responsible adult, and maybe the son had a record of safe driving (about 2 years).

What I mean to say is that, we simply do not know the circumstances surrounding this case. By quickly jumping the gun, and displaying your aversion toward the presumeably "rich" father, all you are doing is fermenting onerous prejudice against the class stratification in this capitalistic society.

Poor people are not all criminals and neither are rich people. These stereotype binaries do not consolate the bigger problems in America--the lack of participation in the democratic process and the marginalization of the unheard. If you vehemently feel remorse for the victim in this incident, instead of vilifying the father, you should seek legislative change in your state (since registration and licence fall under state jurisdiction) to prevent a similar incident from occuring in the future.

I'm just speculating here, but I don't think any federal/state congresswoman/man is listening to any of us in this forum. What good does it do to speak to deaf ears?
 

pilryu

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2005
22
0
0
Originally posted by: sxr7171

Maybe you should stop reading things so literally and try to understand that what Boze meant by dangerous at 30MPH is that the car can very easily be sent out of control by driver error at that speed. Few cars can be sent so much torque to the wheels at 30 MPH so as to lose grip at 30MPH. It's pretty hard to kill yourself in a Camry at 30MPH just by injudicious use of the throttle. Whereas in a Viper you can pretty much kill yourself solely by not judiciously applying throttle.

The vast majority of people have not driven a car that can be sent into a spin with just throttle (especially since the majority of cars sold are front wheel drive and those that are not usually have some kind of traction control that lets you get away with murder on the throttle).

Amen. But to bend your argument a bit, even in the hands of experts, Viper is infamous for its diffcult handling. I don't know about the 2004 model, but if I remember correctly, 90s Viper had almost zero safety features like anti-lock, traction control, etc.

And yes, I can certainly agree with you from my personal experience that you can make a rear wheel drive, high HP car spin with throttle alone (this was quite surprising when I tried it first--safely, of course, in testing ground) And I think the oversteering on the viper adds another layer of problems when turning with low speeds.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: pilryu
Originally posted by: sxr7171

Maybe you should stop reading things so literally and try to understand that what Boze meant by dangerous at 30MPH is that the car can very easily be sent out of control by driver error at that speed. Few cars can be sent so much torque to the wheels at 30 MPH so as to lose grip at 30MPH. It's pretty hard to kill yourself in a Camry at 30MPH just by injudicious use of the throttle. Whereas in a Viper you can pretty much kill yourself solely by not judiciously applying throttle.

The vast majority of people have not driven a car that can be sent into a spin with just throttle (especially since the majority of cars sold are front wheel drive and those that are not usually have some kind of traction control that lets you get away with murder on the throttle).


Amen. But to bend your argument a bit, even in the hands of experts, Viper is infamous for its diffcult handling. I don't know about the 2004 model, but if I remember correctly, 90s Viper had almost zero safety features like anti-lock, traction control, etc.

And yes, I can certainly agree with you from my personal experience that you can make a rear wheel drive, high HP car spin with throttle alone (this was quite surprising when I tried it first--safely, of course, in testing ground) And I think the oversteering on the viper adds another layer of problems when turning with low speeds.
Jeeze, the Viper handles great for a muscle car. . . . OTOH, try a 911 Turbo at med/high speed around a sharp curve - then hit the brakes. :p
:roll:

also, anti-lock brakes are for people who don't know how to brake (period)

 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,991
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Dumb friggin parent, and the kid probably thought that an 80,000 car was invincible.
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
4,259
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I knew a few kids in my high school with suped up old fastback mustangs, firebirds, or camaros that had well over 300 HP and never had a wreck.

The only difference is these guys were the guys who took all the auto mechanic classes and put their own hard work into their cars, so they had some appreciation for what they got. They only guy while I was in high school who had a beafed-up high-power vehicle and wrecked it (and totaled it), only owned it for like 6 months and his parents bought the vehicle and paid a shop to have the mods done.... notice a trend?

Personally, I miraculously dogded death in an '89 Escort LX.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
the Viper is clearly not dangerous inherently . . . as long as you have respect for it's power. :p Front wheel drive is not inherently "safer" . . . almost all cars used to be rear-wheel drive . . . and an understeer is not safer than an oversteer nor is "neutral" steering completely ideal in all situations. ;)

Frankly, i believe the full-size SUV is inherently more "dangerous" than the Viper - especially because it appears so "easy" to drive - like a car . . . . But your average soccer mom i s completely "lost" in an emergency that takes a quick "swerve".
:roll:

Reading your posts, I have trouble believing you have ever driven a car at all.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: apoppin
the Viper is clearly not dangerous inherently . . . as long as you have respect for it's power. :p Front wheel drive is not inherently "safer" . . . almost all cars used to be rear-wheel drive . . . and an understeer is not safer than an oversteer nor is "neutral" steering completely ideal in all situations. ;)

Frankly, i believe the full-size SUV is inherently more "dangerous" than the Viper - especially because it appears so "easy" to drive - like a car . . . . But your average soccer mom i s completely "lost" in an emergency that takes a quick "swerve".
:roll:

Reading your posts, I have trouble believing you have ever driven a car at all.

i have trouble believing you can read. :p
:roll:
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Quotes user reviews of the Dodge Viper on carreview.com. Not expert reviews but these are things actual owners have said:


"The suspension and steering are very tight. The car is incredibly responsive, and I had to pretty much learn to drive all over again. The car rewards you with terrific handling, but only if you really drive it. If you don't pay attention to what you are doing, you can very well end up in the wrong lane in the blink of an eye. Anyone who talks on a cell phone while trying to pilot this car is destined for a very short life."

"When driven properly I can't see how a car could be more fun to drive. Fair warning though this car does take two things to drive well, first it takes skill, but secondly and more importantly it takes tremendous respect. If you aren't careful this car could easily lead to serious injury or even death. Note to the reviewer who rated the Viper 1 out of 5 because it almost killed him, it wasn't the car's fault and your rating was not fair to those who may read it and decide against the Viper."

"High price for a non-lux car, but it's exterior more than makes up for this. If you're 16 and your dad's a millionaire, don't buy this car."

"The handling is a bit "twitchy". I have noticed the car jiggle on the interstate due to uneven surfaces."

"You can steer this car with its power. As far as attention goes, it gets way more looks than my 911 did. I've had some pretty unbelievable offers while driving this car (one even included spontaneous shirt removal from a well kept female in another car)."

"Tail happy handling doesn't always inspire the most driving confidence (thought it can be a lot of fun), and the thought of wrecking a $70,000.00 car doesn't exactly ease the dis-comfort."

"Wet-weather performance is absolutely scary, as the car spins like a top."

"Moments later I was coming up on a wide turn shaped like a hairpin. I eased my foot on the brake and turned like I was taught and the suddenly just as I was coming out of the turn the handling started shaking and I lost control and spun around. I hit a patch of dirt and grass and bumped a wall....Then up in my sights I saw a left angle turn coming up. Remembering the pain of my first experience I slowed earlier and turned carefully into it. This time I became a victim of oversteer."

So I guess not everyone can just get into one and drive it around safely, but then again wouldn't the government would force you to take a "Mandatory Driving Course" if that were the case? BTW what kind of juvenille moron peppers his posts with ridiculous tongue emoticons followed by even more ridiculous rolleyes?



 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: sxr7171
Quotes user reviews of the Dodge Viper on carreview.com. Not expert reviews but these are things actual owners have said:


"The suspension and steering are very tight. The car is incredibly responsive, and I had to pretty much learn to drive all over again. The car rewards you with terrific handling, but only if you really drive it. If you don't pay attention to what you are doing, you can very well end up in the wrong lane in the blink of an eye. Anyone who talks on a cell phone while trying to pilot this car is destined for a very short life."

"When driven properly I can't see how a car could be more fun to drive. Fair warning though this car does take two things to drive well, first it takes skill, but secondly and more importantly it takes tremendous respect. If you aren't careful this car could easily lead to serious injury or even death. Note to the reviewer who rated the Viper 1 out of 5 because it almost killed him, it wasn't the car's fault and your rating was not fair to those who may read it and decide against the Viper."

"High price for a non-lux car, but it's exterior more than makes up for this. If you're 16 and your dad's a millionaire, don't buy this car."

"The handling is a bit "twitchy". I have noticed the car jiggle on the interstate due to uneven surfaces."

"You can steer this car with its power. As far as attention goes, it gets way more looks than my 911 did. I've had some pretty unbelievable offers while driving this car (one even included spontaneous shirt removal from a well kept female in another car)."

"Tail happy handling doesn't always inspire the most driving confidence (thought it can be a lot of fun), and the thought of wrecking a $70,000.00 car doesn't exactly ease the dis-comfort."

"Wet-weather performance is absolutely scary, as the car spins like a top."

"Moments later I was coming up on a wide turn shaped like a hairpin. I eased my foot on the brake and turned like I was taught and the suddenly just as I was coming out of the turn the handling started shaking and I lost control and spun around. I hit a patch of dirt and grass and bumped a wall....Then up in my sights I saw a left angle turn coming up. Remembering the pain of my first experience I slowed earlier and turned carefully into it. This time I became a victim of oversteer."

So I guess not everyone can just get into one and drive it around safely, but then again wouldn't the government would force you to take a "Mandatory Driving Course" if that were the case? BTW what kind of juvenille [sic.] moron peppers his posts with ridiculous tongue emoticons followed by even more ridiculous rolleyes?

i don't know?

What kind of juvenile moron quotes user reviews as accurate?
 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
6,909
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Did anyone notice - while coach speaks, there's someone yelling in the background, like he is passing a bowling ball :)

'this just shows us too dramatically we are mortlas'
- ARRRRRRGH
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
How retarded does one have to be to not realize that the user of something is in the best position to evaluate it? Maybe Gillette should ask someone who's never used an M3 Power razor to offer feedback on it. Perhaps a paid reviewer who gets only a couple of days with a car and plenty of pressure from manufacturers, editors, publishers and other vested interests would write the most "accurate" reviews.

Apparently owners and past owners have no idea what their (present or past) car feels like to drive and of what it is capable or not capable.

 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Originally posted by: DaTT
You guys would make a horrible jury......you don't even know what happened and your all over the son and dad. Who knows...he may have swerved out of the wau of a deer. We don't know.

Anyways....I got dibs on the motor!

'tis the ATOT way, assume what you want to assume and pass judgement!
 

bret

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2001
2,099
0
76
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
wtf... stupid parent, stupid kid, exotic car = dead people


ya well the stupid kid was the smarter one and wore the seat belt... but ya a kid souldnt be given that much power, being so young and inexperienced.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: sxr7171
How retarded does one have to be to not realize that the user of something is in the best position to evaluate it? Maybe Gillette should ask someone who's never used an M3 Power razor to offer feedback on it. Perhaps a paid reviewer who gets only a couple of days with a car and plenty of pressure from manufacturers, editors, publishers and other vested interests would write the most "accurate" reviews.

Apparently owners and past owners have no idea what their (present or past) car feels like to drive and of what it is capable or not capable.

How retarded would someone be that believed every partial "quote" posted on the Internet by mostly anonymous posters?

 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,908
2,141
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I'm 34 and I CAN'T HANDLE ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!! Seriously...it's a street legal race car! My old boss had one and it's the only car he had that he wouldn't let me drive because it's so overpowered. I remember him showing me how he could nearly burn the tires off the rims while starting in second gear heheheh.

Anyway....I'm sure the father sees the mistake now. He just had to learn the hard way :(
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
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Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm 34 and I CAN'T HANDLE ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!! Seriously...it's a street legal race car! My old boss had one and it's the only car he had that he wouldn't let me drive because it's so overpowered. I remember him showing me how he could nearly burn the tires off the rims while starting in second gear heheheh.

Anyway....I'm sure the father sees the mistake now. He just had to learn the hard way :(

No but your words just amount to nothing since you posted them on the internet and you are anonymous.

It amazes me how some people will find every excuse to not see how there is a common theme in everyone who claims to have owned or driven the Viper about how easy it is to get into an accident with it. Then they even lack the ability to apply their common sense to a situation where 500HP and 525 ft-lbs of torque is applied to the rear wheels of a vehicle that weighs approximately 3400lbs and see that such statements of easily spinning the car would fit with such a scenario. After reading some idiot's treatise on understeer and oversteer it became clear to me and others on this board that the idiot has experienced neither oversteer nor understeer personally. In addition, these people don't realize that they could go to carreview.com and see the user reviews themselves.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
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a 15 year old has no business behind the wheel of a car with 300hp? I guess it depends on how careful that 15 year old teenager is. "your parents are stupid"? um wow.
It's true. A 15 year has no business with that, and yes his parents are dumb, and yes when he totals that car and hurts himself and/or somebody else, his brother can come back here and correct that post, plus tell us how sh*ty his parents feel for buying his brother an STI, if that's even true. People don't buy powerful cars to drive on the highway at 70, and a new driver, combining their lack of experience and notorious cock-thought processing of teenage boys, when put behind the wheel of a powerful car is litterally _begging_ for a serious accident. Anybody who isn't 16 themselves would surely agree with me.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: sxr7171
Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm 34 and I CAN'T HANDLE ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!! Seriously...it's a street legal race car! My old boss had one and it's the only car he had that he wouldn't let me drive because it's so overpowered. I remember him showing me how he could nearly burn the tires off the rims while starting in second gear heheheh.

Anyway....I'm sure the father sees the mistake now. He just had to learn the hard way :(

No but your words just amount to nothing since you posted them on the internet and you are anonymous.

It amazes me how some people will find every excuse to not see how there is a common theme in everyone who claims to have owned or driven the Viper about how easy it is to get into an accident with it. Then they even lack the ability to apply their common sense to a situation where 500HP and 525 ft-lbs of torque is applied to the rear wheels of a vehicle that weighs approximately 3400lbs and see that such statements of easily spinning the car would fit with such a scenario. After reading some idiot's treatise on understeer and oversteer it became clear to me and others on this board that the idiot has experienced neither oversteer nor understeer personally. In addition, these people don't realize that they could go to carreview.com and see the user reviews themselves.

You are easily amazed.

Only an idiot would criticize something they can't even comprehend or comment with supposed authority on something they haven't experienced personally.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
a 15 year old has no business behind the wheel of a car with 300hp? I guess it depends on how careful that 15 year old teenager is. "your parents are stupid"? um wow.
It's true. A 15 year has no business with that, and yes his parents are dumb, and yes when he totals that car and hurts himself and/or somebody else, his brother can come back here and correct that post, plus tell us how sh*ty his parents feel for buying his brother an STI, if that's even true. People don't buy powerful cars to drive on the highway at 70, and a new driver, combining their lack of experience and notorious cock-thought processing of teenage boys, when put behind the wheel of a powerful car is litterally _begging_ for a serious accident. Anybody who isn't 16 themselves would surely agree with me.

Do you need a "Yes Skoorb, this is his car"?

I wish I had gotten one, all I got was a pickup truck. :(
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: sxr7171
Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm 34 and I CAN'T HANDLE ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!! Seriously...it's a street legal race car! My old boss had one and it's the only car he had that he wouldn't let me drive because it's so overpowered. I remember him showing me how he could nearly burn the tires off the rims while starting in second gear heheheh.

Anyway....I'm sure the father sees the mistake now. He just had to learn the hard way :(

No but your words just amount to nothing since you posted them on the internet and you are anonymous.

It amazes me how some people will find every excuse to not see how there is a common theme in everyone who claims to have owned or driven the Viper about how easy it is to get into an accident with it. Then they even lack the ability to apply their common sense to a situation where 500HP and 525 ft-lbs of torque is applied to the rear wheels of a vehicle that weighs approximately 3400lbs and see that such statements of easily spinning the car would fit with such a scenario. After reading some idiot's treatise on understeer and oversteer it became clear to me and others on this board that the idiot has experienced neither oversteer nor understeer personally. In addition, these people don't realize that they could go to carreview.com and see the user reviews themselves.

You are easily amazed.

Only an idiot would criticize something they can't even comprehend or comment with supposed authority on something they haven't experienced personally.

Oh, I have driven cars with plenty of power to the rear wheels. Anyone in this thread who has knows exactly what I'm talking about. Anyone who has read your treatise on oversteer and understeer knows you are an idiot. You haven't driven anything worth a damn and it shows in your posts. You're only capable of misreading some article that you read in your armchair at home in some car magazine and showing us how poorly you comprehended it.

Anyone who says this: "Front wheel drive is not inherently "safer" . . . almost all cars used to be rear-wheel drive. . . and an understeer is not safer than an oversteer nor is "neutral" steering completely ideal in all situations." has never really driven anything worth a damn. Why don't you just quit, it's clear that you have no experience with cars. On a public road, at the speeds you can do on those roads, oversteer can get you into an accident very easily. Understeer usually requires far higher speeds to encounter. A car like the Viper is easy to lose control of at low speeds, whereas the typical front wheel drive family sedan needs to go a lot faster to hit its handling limits. If you have driven different cars you would know how stupid your statement is.