Dad disowns his gay son in handwritten letter

[Abraxas]

You're probably right.

**Putting you back on ignore list**

Please put me on your ignore list.

Thanks

Usually am, but it takes no great perceptive skills to recognize a coward and a bigot. Also not terribly bright, given that on the one hand you claim to not read what I post but on the other managed to read the one and only post to you that got me on your ignore list in the first place, as determined by your comment "back on ignore".

Also, no, I don't use the ignore list. Unlike you, my mind is sufficiently developed to realize that just because I can't see someone doesn't mean they aren't there and that there is value in seeing what others with a differing point of view are saying and thinking, even if it might make me think.

That your beliefs are so fragile, so undeveloped that you have to hide behind the ignore feature and pretend nobody disagrees with you tells me all I need to know about you.

 

[Retro Rob]

Blah blah blah...

Also, no, I don't use the ignore list. Unlike you, my mind is sufficiently developed to realize that just because I can't see someone doesn't mean they aren't there .. blah blah blah....

Ok - will take that bet. I never use it either...just on you.

However, to answer you, it's has nothing to do with me being somehow unable, unwilling, or incapable of "thinking".. or me acting like you aren't there.

I have absolutely no interest in debating anything with YOU... period. Plain and simple. I really don't care about what you have to say about anything.

 

[Abraxas]

I have absolutely no interest in debating anything with YOU... period.

Sure, I can see why. Pointing out blood transfusions save lives and that shellfish are condemned by the Bible as strongly as homosexuality clearly merits the "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA" defense.

Look, I don't know what your problem is but as far as I know we've never met or spoken before this and if the remarks in this thread are sufficient to make you act like this much of a baby, go for it; put me on ignore. I sincerely doubt I would learn anything from you anyway.

 

[Retro Rob]

Sure, I can see why. Pointing out blood transfusions save lives and that shellfish are condemned by the Bible as strongly as homosexuality clearly merits the "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA" defense.

Look, I don't know what your problem is but as far as I know we've never met or spoken before this and if the remarks in this thread are sufficient to make you act like this much of a baby, go for it; put me on ignore. I sincerely doubt I would learn anything from you anyway.

Quoting you:

No, those are exactly what it is. Much of what the Bible describes is impossible, known to be historically inaccurate, or just plain wrongheaded. It is not possible for a planet to stop rotating and start rotating again without consequences, or for a flood that requires 3 times the amount of water on Earth to happen on Earth, or a zombie invasion of Jerusalem and have only one guy say something.

When you use a literal interpretation of a storybook as your compass, bad things come of it, predictably so.

More:

Other than of course there is absolutely zero evidence any of the purported biblical longevity. If we are going that route, Heracles is over 2000.

End of discussion. You've held this belief probably most, if not all of your adult live... even if you're around 50 years old.

Why engage in a debate about something you have your mind clearly made up on? We would just have a way off-topic, circle-jerk debate culminating in childish name-calling. I don't recall you once in this thread engaging me on the topic... particularly some of the stats I posted on the last page or two concerning HIV/AIDS. Alzan and zsdersw have done that, even if we aren't agreeing on everything, I respect them for that.

If you focused a little more on the topic (which is on-topic) instead of attempting to focus exclusively on criticizing my belief system, we could have a discussion with no problem.

 

[dank69]

I hear that, but I'm talking about "our generation".. focusing on the 30 and under crowd. Our parents were much more religious than our generation is. I recall reading where you even admit to that.



We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Historically, family structure and morality where higher during our parents' prime. My mother mentions that all the time, and so do many that I know that are at least 60 years old. I wasn't there, so I can say for certain. But I am more inclined to take the words of those who lived during that time as more factual. It isn't pushing it on them. Its teaching them from a very young age, and then allowing them to choose if they will stick with it or not. I didn't have the Bible forced on me... personally, I took to it very well as a youngster. Everyone isn't like that, though.




Seems interesting. Looked it up on Wikipedia....

If the bible and religion never existed, do you think you would be an evil person? Would you lie, steal, assault and kill?

 

[Retro Rob]

If the bible and religion never existed, do you think you would be an evil person? Would you lie, steal, assault and kill?

I don't know.

 

[alzan]

I hear that, but I'm talking about "our generation".. focusing on the 30 and under crowd. Our parents were much more religious than our generation is. I recall reading where you even admit to that.



We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Historically, family structure and morality where higher during our parents' prime. My mother mentions that all the time, and so do many that I know that are at least 60 years old. I wasn't there, so I can say for certain. But I am more inclined to take the words of those who lived during that time as more factual. It isn't pushing it on them. Its teaching them from a very young age, and then allowing them to choose if they will stick with it or not. I didn't have the Bible forced on me... personally, I took to it very well as a youngster. Everyone isn't like that, though.




Seems interesting. Looked it up on Wikipedia....

I should have expanded on what I was originally trying to say. My point was not to declare that the waning of religiousness was a singular event but that there's been a cycle of the waning/waxing of religiousness throughout the world's history. What you're seeing now is a waning. Yes, my parents were more religious than I am but that's not the complete story. My parents both went through a crisis of faith during their lives, my mother when I was in my teens and my father when I was in my 40's. Their personal waning/waxing is a microcosm of what the world has been experiencing for a long time.

I probably use the phrase "pushing religion on children" because of my own animosity towards the church but I do see it in varying degrees with friends and family. I've seen children cling fast to the church and become "Bible-thumpers", children rejecting the church and their parents because of it and everything in between. That's why I promote a more neutral attitude of introducing children/young adults to the church; to decrease the movement to the extremes which can and do tear families apart.

My point was that in a school setting the teachers shouldn't have to contend with a teens' religious upbringing when educating them on sexuality, birth control, STD's, etc. Leave your beliefs at the classroom door, they'll be there for them to pick up when class is over. Not too mention they're in class with students from other backgrounds. Health class is not the place for discussions of one religions "superiority" over others or of the good/bad aspects of a particular belief system; or any other religious discussion.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I don't know.

I do. You wouldn't.

 

[Retro Rob]

I should have expanded on what I was originally trying to say. My point was not to declare that the waning of religiousness was a singular event but that there's been a cycle of the waning/waxing of religiousness throughout the world's history. What you're seeing now is a waning. Yes, my parents were more religious than I am but that's not the complete story. My parents both went through a crisis of faith during their lives, my mother when I was in my teens and my father when I was in my 40's. Their personal waning/waxing is a microcosm of what the world has been experiencing for a long time.

Sorry to hear that they went through a crisis. I never have, but it aint easy... that's for sure.

Hypocrisy is not too hard to find, especially by those who claim to follow the Bible. Talking about "killing gays" and "locking them up"? Really? Is that what's being taught in Church nowadays? Treating people like that is sickening...

probably use the phrase "pushing religion on children" because of my own animosity towards the church but I do see it in varying degrees with friends and family. I've seen children cling fast to the church and become "Bible-thumpers", children rejecting the church and their parents because of it and everything in between. That's why I promote a more neutral attitude of introducing children/young adults to the church; to decrease the movement to the extremes which can and do tear families apart.

I couldn't agree more. There does need to be a balance. It starts at home. I also do not advocate a set of strong-fast religious rules in a household. I also don't agree with exposing them to some of the crap this world has to offer, either.

For instance, I've seen parents control their kids with religion big time, and they do hate it sometimes. On the other hand, I do have a personal friend who let his son (when he was about 4) play games games like GOW (rated "Mature" games, basically). No balance = bad outcome.

My point was that in a school setting the teachers shouldn't have to contend with a teens' religious upbringing when educating them on sexuality, birth control, STD's, etc. Leave your beliefs at the classroom door, they'll be there for them to pick up when class is over. Not too mention they're in class with students from other backgrounds. Health class is not the place for discussions of one religions "superiority" over others or of the good/bad aspects of a particular belief system; or any other religious discussion.

We are in agreement entirely here. I don't need to say anymore.

 

[Retro Rob]

I do. You wouldn't.

Hey, thanks.

 

[werepossum]

I should have expanded on what I was originally trying to say. My point was not to declare that the waning of religiousness was a singular event but that there's been a cycle of the waning/waxing of religiousness throughout the world's history. What you're seeing now is a waning. Yes, my parents were more religious than I am but that's not the complete story. My parents both went through a crisis of faith during their lives, my mother when I was in my teens and my father when I was in my 40's. Their personal waning/waxing is a microcosm of what the world has been experiencing for a long time.

I probably use the phrase "pushing religion on children" because of my own animosity towards the church but I do see it in varying degrees with friends and family. I've seen children cling fast to the church and become "Bible-thumpers", children rejecting the church and their parents because of it and everything in between. That's why I promote a more neutral attitude of introducing children/young adults to the church; to decrease the movement to the extremes which can and do tear families apart.

My point was that in a school setting the teachers shouldn't have to contend with a teens' religious upbringing when educating them on sexuality, birth control, STD's, etc. Leave your beliefs at the classroom door, they'll be there for them to pick up when class is over. Not too mention they're in class with students from other backgrounds. Health class is not the place for discussions of one religions "superiority" over others or of the good/bad aspects of a particular belief system; or any other religious discussion.

Good post. I'm more an advocate of early exposure to religion, but I too have seen children driven away from G-d from pushing religion on them. I think this is especially true when pushing the hate angle - when the position is we hate homosexuals because we hate homosexuals because G-d wants us to hate homosexuals because we should homosexuals, it's not difficult for an inquisitive mind to reject faith. Especially when the person meets a homosexual who is not otherwise a horrible person and her direct personal experience is in direct opposition to what she has been taught. (Wasn't it Ghandi who said "I love your Christ, but I hate your Christians"?)

One of the most important things we can teach our children is how to think for themselves. Another of the most important things we can teach our children is how to judge people for the content of their character. Religion can be a very positive thing, but it can also undermine those two very necessary qualities if taught by rote.

And to others in this thread, we really need to get over calling people bigots if they disagree. I'm very pro-gay marriage - in fact, this is one of very few political issues where I can't see merit in both sides' arguments - but I can still respect that others hold different views and values. And if I call someone an idiot, I want to do so on the merits (or rather, lack of same) in his post, not merely that he disagrees with me. Otherwise I can't properly censure the idiots.

 

[dank69]

I don't know.

Okay... Is the only reason you don't go around killing people because you are afraid of going to hell?

 

[Retro Rob]

Okay... Is the only reason you don't go around killing people because you are afraid of going to hell?

If you're somehow saying I believe in the Bible out of fear or "eternal torment" then no, you're wrong.

I honestly care about people, believe it or not.

 

[diesbudt]

If you're somehow saying I believe in the Bible out of fear or "eternal torment" then no, you're wrong.

I honestly care about people, believe it or not.

Amen. I agree 100%.

It isnt religion, peoples viewing of me or even prision that deters me from killing/violent acts. It is that I care about people as a whole.

 

[Retro Rob]

Amen. I agree 100%.

It isnt religion, peoples viewing of me or even prision that deters me from killing/violent acts. It is that I care about people as a whole.

yeah... we don't need a reason to care about others. Naturally, we just do.

 

[Retro Rob]

And to others in this thread, we really need to get over calling people bigots if they disagree

That's because they equate rejecting the "act" part of homosexuality with rejecting the "person" part of it. That is simply not true. You reject the lifestyle, you reject the person. That's really over-the-top and causes some people to say "so be it".

It's almost like people are being forced, in a sense, to an "all or nothing" stance on homosexuals and what they do sexually.

 

[diesbudt]

That's because they equate rejecting the "act" part of homosexuality with rejecting the "person" part of it. That is simply not true. You reject the lifestyle, you reject the person. That's really over-the-top and causes some people to say "so be it".

It's almost like people are being forced, in a sense, to an "all or nothing" stance on homosexuals and what they do sexually.

I am glad someone else understands this viewpoint.

You can dissagree about someone elses lifestyle. Whether it be religion, what gender your interested in, whatever. But that doesn't mean you have to be all in and not like the person. Seriously annoys me people always think all or nothing in cases.

Especially on this board of the AT forums. All republican/conservative or all democrat/liberal. When truth be told having different viewpoints on different subjects is probably the "best standpoint" in the current society, but people love to blindly follow the all or nothing rule.

 

[Retro Rob]

I am glad someone else understands this viewpoint.

You can dissagree about someone elses lifestyle. Whether it be religion, what gender your interested in, whatever. But that doesn't mean you have to be all in and not like the person. Seriously annoys me people always think all or nothing in cases.

Especially on this board of the AT forums. All republican/conservative or all democrat/liberal. When truth be told having different viewpoints on different subjects is probably the "best standpoint" in the current society, but people love to blindly follow the all or nothing rule.

Right.

However, people sometimes reject the person as well which isn't the right thing to do.

It's all a matter of opinion and we can think that somehow our opinion is fact and yours is false, sometimes.

Yeah, as possum said, keep the silly name-calling to the post and not the person. Eh, our current leader and potential one take childish cheap personal shots at each other every chance they get. What do we expect from advocates of each respective party.

 

[Sinsear]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

 

[CitizenKain]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

 

[mikeymikec]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

Yeah, next you'll discover that disapproving of "the black lifestyle" will get you into hot water. Who knew? Free speech, goddammit!

 

[Retro Rob]

Yeah, next you'll discover that disapproving of "the black lifestyle" will get you into hot water. Who knew? Free speech, goddammit!

..if there was a such thing as the black lifestyle....

 

[thraashman]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

I disapprove of the conservative lifestyle but I don't try to make it illegal for them to get married and wouldn't stop talking to a friend or disown a child because they're conservative. And unlike being gay, being conservative is a choice.

 

[zsdersw]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

Yeah, sure.. really lured you in since this is your first post in the thread.

 

[cybrsage]

Another gay trap thread by OP; lures you in, and when you disapprove of gay lifestyle they jump all over you yelling bigot.

Not nearly as bad as the trap where he lures you into a bar making you believe you will see hot women stripping only to find it is a gay bar. You end up catching gay and before you know it you are french kissing the guy bringing you your drinks...