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Dad disowns his gay son in handwritten letter

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EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
I do not think this is any of my business. I'm tired of the feel bad for gay people stuff. There are plenty of people who get a letter like this for all sorts of reasons why is this so much more special. The gay factor?

The dad is a jerk. It happens.

Feel free to flame me not gonna come back to this turd of a thread.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,513
5,820
126
In other words, you think he made the wrong decision, which is all anyone is saying here. For some reason, you and many others hear people say the father is wrong, and suddenly you think we are saying he doesn't have the right to make that decision. That's a weird thing to think.
I think he made a decision that he will regret later. Is it WRONG? No. It's not up to me to judge whether it's right or wrong...it's up to HIM.

Would I make the same decision? Thankfully, I don't have to find out.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,071
13,050
136
I think he made a decision that he will regret later. Is it WRONG? No. It's not up to me to judge whether it's right or wrong...it's up to HIM.

Would I make the same decision? Thankfully, I don't have to find out.
Do you think people often regret making the right decision in hindsight? Do you hear of a lot of people saying "Gee, I made the right decision but now I regret it."?

Your position that one person cannot claim someone else is wrong about something is absolutely absurd to me. Let me make it painfully obvious. If someone tells you that 1+1=3, do you still believe you can't judge whether that someone is right or wrong?

Let me guess, you're now going to qualify that one person cannot judge another person wrong when it comes to moral decisions, not all decisions. Before you do that, let me offer you another scenario. Would you say that a poor person that spends their paycheck on lottery tickets instead of food for their kids is wrong? Do you still think you don't have the right to judge that what that person is doing is wrong?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,513
5,820
126
Do you think people often regret making the right decision in hindsight? Do you hear of a lot of people saying "Gee, I made the right decision but now I regret it."?

Your position that one person cannot claim someone else is wrong about something is absolutely absurd to me. Let me make it painfully obvious. If someone tells you that 1+1=3, do you still believe you can't judge whether that someone is right or wrong?

Let me guess, you're now going to qualify that one person cannot judge another person wrong when it comes to moral decisions, not all decisions. Before you do that, let me offer you another scenario. Would you say that a poor person that spends their paycheck on lottery tickets instead of food for their kids is wrong? Do you still think you don't have the right to judge that what that person is doing is wrong?
I think that would be a poor decision. Is it wrong? <shrug>

If the poor person hit the lotto for $1 million dollars...would that then make their decision a good one?

Obviously, in your first scenario...even a "math-challenged" person like me would know that's wrong...but math problems aren't based on moral values...nor should they present such dilemmas...if life was only so certain.
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
Shows how much you really know about it... close to nothing...:rolleyes:



Nope, neither, bro...
Let's see: It's an ancient group of parables cobbled together; it's contents were decided upon by a group of men; none of whom were around when it's supposed central characters were alive. They finally agreed to it's contents after being paid off. There have been many translations of it since then. It has been and continues to used by people and groups who seek to have power and control over their fellow man while they rake in tithes and donations from their flocks.

And, more specifically, certain of it's passages that are taken out of context are being used to deny a significant portion of our countries, as well as others, populations constitutional rights and protections. I think that about covers it.

Life and all it's wonders are all around you, not in a book. Seek to know your fellow man by seeing things through their eyes; and discover the truth about yourself.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,071
13,050
136
I think that would be a poor decision. Is it wrong? <shrug>

If the poor person hit the lotto for $1 million dollars...would that then make their decision a good one?

Obviously, in your first scenario...even a "math-challenged" person like me would know that's wrong...but math problems aren't based on moral values...nor should they present such dilemmas...if life was only so certain.
Ok, you seem very determined not to admit that you think people make wrong moral decisions. They may be poor decisions or they may regret the decisions, but they aren't wrong. Maybe you think I'm wrong for saying this father was wrong ... oops. No, that's not what you're saying?

Wait, you actually said:
"MORALLY wrong?" So you want to judge the guy by YOUR set of standards?

IMO, that's as wrong as what he did.

Morals are just "rules" made up by a group to govern the behavior of others.
That alone implies that you think the father is wrong, otherwise how could actuarial be as wrong as him?

I think your confusion is revealed in this post:
It's NOT wrong...No one should have to "accept" someone else's livestyle or life choices. They have the right to refuse to associate with that person.

As was pointed out earlier, if the son was a heroin addict, the father would be just as right to refuse to associate with his son if that was his choice.

As for me...thankfully, I don't have to make the decision...but I came close to disowning my daughter when she converted to Mormonism...:biggrin:
Nobody said he doesn't have the right to refuse to associate with that person.

Oh, and btw, the guy actually hitting the jackpot for $1M doesn't all of a sudden make his decision right IMO.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,513
5,820
126
Ok, you seem very determined not to admit that you think people make wrong moral decisions. They may be poor decisions or they may regret the decisions, but they aren't wrong. Maybe you think I'm wrong for saying this father was wrong ... oops. No, that's not what you're saying?

Wait, you actually said:
That alone implies that you think the father is wrong, otherwise how could actuarial be as wrong as him?

I think your confusion is revealed in this post:
Nobody said he doesn't have the right to refuse to associate with that person.

Oh, and btw, the guy actually hitting the jackpot for $1M doesn't all of a sudden make his decision right IMO.
Really? Taking a chance that pays off sounds like the "wrong" decision paid off for your hypothetical poor person...that sounds like he made a "right" decision...in this case.

It's not impossible to have regrets over making the "right" decision...the end results may be correct...but still regrettable.

My point about "IMO, that's as wrong as what he did, " is that by judging the father as wrong...you're as wrong as you imply he is.

I've always had a problem with "morals" being the deciding factor in things. What's "RIGHT" for you might be "WRONG" for someone else...and vice versa. Like I said earlier, "Morals" are a set of rules adopted by a group of people to govern or control the behavior of other people...SOME lead to laws...right or wrong...(look at the current drug laws. Not everyone agrees with them, but they're still the law of the land...and most of them (especially marijuana) are based on morals...not any scientific reasoning.)

I don't envy the father in this story...true or not. He's had to make a difficult decision...and will have to live with the results of that decision.

BTW, everyone who is calling the father out for this IS saying he doesn't have the right to refuse to associate with his son...

YOU don't have the right to tell ME how to live. The father in this story doesn't have the right to tell his son how to live...but he DOES have the right to disown the son.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,228
21,268
146
I do not think this is any of my business. I'm tired of the feel bad for gay people stuff. There are plenty of people who get a letter like this for all sorts of reasons why is this so much more special. The gay factor?

The dad is a jerk. It happens.

Feel free to flame me not gonna come back to this turd of a thread.
it's like saying "You are no longer my son because you were born with brown hair"

the son did not make a choice in this. Those "all sorts of other reasons" you are talking about is generally one of the two making some dumb as decision, or series of decisions, that have led to a fractured relationship.

The son did not decide to "be gay." That is the crux of the matter. The only way that I can imagine people don't get this, is that they believe being gay is some sort of choice that someone makes. ....such people are clearly idiots, though.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,123
126
It takes a lot of courage to take that firm of a stand against homosexuality nowadays. Though I wouldn't disown my son if he were gay, I'd distance myself from his lifestyle, but still love him and be there if he needed me.
Courage not found. Stupidity and no semblance of God in life located.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,521
4,198
126
Why is this father wrong in what he did? It was his, the father's, choice and I am assuming it was not easy for him.
It's complicated and in order to understand why it's wrong may require a mental freedom you do not have. It goes something like this:

A father that is not mentally damaged will not reject his son because he's a homosexual. Right off, you have to not be mentally damaged to know this. What I refer to here, as mental damage, is brainwashing.

Homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomenon in the animal kingdom and among people. It is not a personal choice otherwise, any day at all you could go out and have sex with another man. But in your and my case, this will never happen or at least I know it won't in mine, because I know I can't decide to be a homosexual. Therefore, any teaching that homosexual is evil and an evil choice some people make is a lie, a brainwashing stupidity, a sick teaching.

But once this psychosis in implanted by religious dogma, with all the fear of hell and eternal damnation, and all the other horse shit religion uses to imprison people's minds, the person no longer has real choice.

So this is why it is sad. This father was perverted by religion as a child and imprisoned in a hell that causes him to reject his own flesh and blood against all biological imperatives that would otherwise make him love his own child. This poor man was fucked and being fucked he fucked his son, the very thing, of course, he himself believes is evil. But if you are a mental prisoner yourself, you won't be able to see this. Bigots are blind. They can't see their own bigotry.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
14,835
5,028
136
It takes a lot of courage to take that firm of a stand against homosexuality nowadays.
It certainly does, but you know, it constitutes such a threat to the purity of humanity's bodily fluids that the father KNEW WHAT MUST BE DONE. :p

Hitler stood up for what he believed in, doesn't make him any less of a bastard.
Godwin's Law invoked, you lose.

exactly.

I JUDGE THE FATHER FOR MAKING A FREE CHOICE THAT IS HIS AND HIS ALONE, WHILE SUPPORTING THE SON WHO IS MAKING A FREE CHOICE THAT IS HIS AND HIS ALONE.

Seriously, if you live in a country that allows you free choice in life style, you have to let others have their own choice how they react to that life style. I'm sad for the son and the father, but neither of them are doing anything wrong.
Lay off the caps dude. No one is stopping the idiot from making an idiotic decision.

However, by your rationale, if the son is doing nothing wrong then surely the father is wrong to disown him?
 
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Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
You're right...stupid parents like this contribute to the problem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/magazine/whats-so-bad-about-a-boy-who-wants-to-wear-a-dress.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1344470436-pR9Zzdpk26S1tdUtP3T9DQ

Oh yeah...and parents who don't think there's anything wrong with little boys playing with dolls...




:p
I used to play with dolls so I could play doctor with the little girls in my neighborhood when I was between 8-10 or so. I'm not advocating hating gays but just pointing out that not all gays are born that way.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
While it's an assholish thing to do, he's not a coward. It takes a lot of conviction and strength to do something like that, knowing the consequences..
Wrong. He's avoiding having his son in his life because he's a chicken shit who can't handle having a gay son.

A truly courageous man would be able to stand up for his beliefs without cutting those out of his life that do not share those beliefs.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
I very strongly suspect you are correct.
There's no evidence either way. It could be a fake, it could be real. There's, presently, no way to know.

Even if it is fake, though, the act it describes... sons or daughters being disowned because they're gay... is quite real and does happen.

This thread is about those situations as much as it is about this letter, whether a fake or not.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
10,764
1,978
126
^^ true courage is to support the son despite his personal feelings, not to turn his back to the son.

My fiancee's 14 year old daughter has come out to her so I can relate and would never do what this dad did.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Really? Taking a chance that pays off sounds like the "wrong" decision paid off for your hypothetical poor person...that sounds like he made a "right" decision...in this case.

It's not impossible to have regrets over making the "right" decision...the end results may be correct...but still regrettable.

My point about "IMO, that's as wrong as what he did, " is that by judging the father as wrong...you're as wrong as you imply he is.

I've always had a problem with "morals" being the deciding factor in things. What's "RIGHT" for you might be "WRONG" for someone else...and vice versa. Like I said earlier, "Morals" are a set of rules adopted by a group of people to govern or control the behavior of other people...SOME lead to laws...right or wrong...(look at the current drug laws. Not everyone agrees with them, but they're still the law of the land...and most of them (especially marijuana) are based on morals...not any scientific reasoning.)

I don't envy the father in this story...true or not. He's had to make a difficult decision...and will have to live with the results of that decision.

BTW, everyone who is calling the father out for this IS saying he doesn't have the right to refuse to associate with his son...

YOU don't have the right to tell ME how to live. The father in this story doesn't have the right to tell his son how to live...but he DOES have the right to disown the son.
What you fail to realize is that we're not calling the father's opinion wrong (I have a lot of other words for it but I'd stray from wrong) but rather his actions. So comparing disowning one's son to commenting on an internet forum is a massive stretch.

And no, calling someone out for something is not the same as saying they don't have the right to do it. Just a few posts after this one you call out parents who let their boys wear dresses/play with dolls, does that mean you think they don't have the right to do that? Does the father who called out his son think he doesn't have the right to be gay?
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Marrying outside his race isn't a moral issue, that's why, basically. It really isn't about homosexuality.. again, it's a moral issue no matter what it was. The reason why I say it's courageous is because of the amount of criticism people are subject to if they do take a firm "NO" stand of the topic seeing how people in general have a very acceptable view on things that are immoral, in general.

The same is true of the opposite. However, I can't call a person courageous for taking a stand on the side of immorality, to be brutally honest with you. Doing anything "immoral" isn't something I endorse. I am also not supporting hate speeches and acts of hateful discrimination against homosexual persons either.. or "disowning" your kids for that reason. So before someone pushes that "anti-gay" homophobic button, just note that.
Marrying outside one's race is a moral issue to some people, and it used to be a moral issue for tons of people.

Your view, if I read this correctly, is to find it courageous when someone stands up for something you believe in, but not if they stand up for something you don't believe in (taking a stand for immorality). It has nothing to do with standing against popular opinion.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,071
13,050
136
Wrong. He's avoiding having his son in his life because he's a chicken shit who can't handle having a gay son.

A truly courageous man would be able to stand up for his beliefs without cutting those out of his life that do not share those beliefs.
I agree. It would be courageous for him to stand up for his son in the face of his bigoted family/friends. Dollars to donuts he is ashamed of his son so to save face with his bigot family/friends he is disowning him. That is true cowardice.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,071
13,050
136
Really? Taking a chance that pays off sounds like the "wrong" decision paid off for your hypothetical poor person...that sounds like he made a "right" decision...in this case.
The paying off would be stupid blind luck. Just because it works out doesn't absolve him of making a stupid (morally wrong) decision. You provide for your family first, then, if there is money left over you gamble with that. You don't gamble with people's lives. It is wrong.

It's not impossible to have regrets over making the "right" decision...the end results may be correct...but still regrettable.
I need an example of a correct end result that is also regrettable. I honestly can't think of one.

My point about "IMO, that's as wrong as what he did, " is that by judging the father as wrong...you're as wrong as you imply he is.

I've always had a problem with "morals" being the deciding factor in things. What's "RIGHT" for you might be "WRONG" for someone else...and vice versa. Like I said earlier, "Morals" are a set of rules adopted by a group of people to govern or control the behavior of other people...SOME lead to laws...right or wrong...(look at the current drug laws. Not everyone agrees with them, but they're still the law of the land...and most of them (especially marijuana) are based on morals...not any scientific reasoning.)

I don't envy the father in this story...true or not. He's had to make a difficult decision...and will have to live with the results of that decision.

BTW, everyone who is calling the father out for this IS saying he doesn't have the right to refuse to associate with his son...
No. They are not the same thing. Sorry, you don't get to just make shit up. He has a right to free speech. He has a right to not associate with whoever he wants. His reasoning is wrong. It can't be logically defended. His only defense is he believes what is written in a book. Take away that book and he has absolutely zero defense for his position. He has the right to believe it anyway, no matter who he hurts. I have the right to believe that anyone who hurts someone else based on what is written in a book is a fucking idiot and is WRONG. I have that right. You have the right to disagree.

YOU don't have the right to tell ME how to live. The father in this story doesn't have the right to tell his son how to live...but he DOES have the right to disown the son.
Actually I do have the right to tell you how to live. You have the right to ignore it. What I don't have is the right to force you to live the way I say you should. Once again, nobody has claimed that the father does not have the right to disown his son.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
462
126
There's no evidence either way. It could be a fake, it could be real. There's, presently, no way to know.

Even if it is fake, though, the act it describes... sons or daughters being disowned because they're gay... is quite real and does happen.

This thread is about those situations as much as it is about this letter, whether a fake or not.
I agree that this does happen, and that it's awful. We are not defined by one decision or one aspect of our lives. Disowning a child should only be done if that child has done something truly evil and horrific, and while a parent may be disappointed, disowning a child for being gay is an evil thing. I was going to argue that there's no value in discussing it because everyone agrees it's a horrible thing, but I guess in light of this thread, I can't, can I?

As an aside, the only gay couple I really know has a somewhat similar situation in that one's brother will not allow his partner to be in his home, says he doesn't want his children to see the gay lifestyle. These two are good, normal people; it's not like the partner would show up in assless chaps or a pink tutu, or tell the children all about the wonders of the dark side. He's not out to the parents, although they have to know since their son has been part of a couple for years. The parents are golden though and treat him and his partner great.
 

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