Dad disowns his gay son in handwritten letter

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Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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So, are you saying that there is no design in the human body/DNA?

Doesn't design reflect a designer? Or no?

Really, just wondering about your thoughts on that
 
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RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
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So, are you saying that there is no design in the human body/DNA?

Doesn't design reflect a designer? Or no?

Really, just wondering about your thoughts on that.

No. There's no scientific evidence that we were designed, so I don't thing it were designed.

Complex <> Designed.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
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No. There's no scientific evidence that we were designed, so I don't thing it were designed.

Complex <> Designed.

I asked you if you saw any design in the human body, or in DNA.

I know you don't think it was designed.

Like computers are designed to serve a purpose, do you see any purpose (design, plan) in DNA?
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
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(

I asked you if you saw any design in the human body, or in DNA.

I know you don't think it was designed.

Like computers are designed to serve a purpose, do you see any purpose (design, plan) in DNA?

No, I don't see design.

There is no design.

No reputable scientist thinks there's design.

We are nothing like computers. Computers don't self replicate!
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
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No, I don't see design.

There is no design.

No reputable scientist thinks there's design.

We are nothing like computers. Computers don't self replicate!

So, self replication isn't purposeful, is what you're saying?

You don't see design, is just like saying "I don't see a purpose".
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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I suspect you'd find fewer Christians today who believe the Bible is the literal truth dictated straight from G-d's mouth than you'd find Christians who believe as he does. Whether that is a failing of faith is something none of us will know until Judgment. Personally I'm rather agnostic about the Bible as literal truth; certainly a being powerful enough to create our universe could have done anything in the Bible, but as many of the things are contradicted by known science, I don't think believing the Bible is a collection of parables is entirely unreasonable, whether you believe those parables came from G-d or simply from people recognized for wisdom. I'd also point out that there is nothing mankind can't fuck up, so believing that the Bible is the literal word of G-d is also believing that over thousands of years G-d made sure no one was allowed to change His word in the slightest, whether intentionally or accidentally. For instance, Catholics and Protestants and Mormons all have different Bibles, and for the first two there are numerous translations which are not always in agreement. And some other books were considered for inclusion and rejected in the face of opposition. I have no problem believing that those early Christians were solemn, honest men with the best of intentions, or that they were divinely inspired. I have a bit more problem believing that those early Christians were infallible and that their own preferences and cultural mores never crept in.

Honor the man who seeks to know G-d's will; fear the man who says he knows it. The Bible is G-d's lesson collection for us; understanding that does not require belief in its literal truth. And even the deepest faith in the Bible as literal truth does not tell you which parts should take precedence, or how much to weight each requirement, or what to do in every situation. Which is as it should be - what use is a G-d who allows no personal decisions?

I absolutely believe one of the old time saints (cannot remember who) got it right when he said something like (paraphrased) "When science shows us that our interpretation of the Bible is incorrect, then we need to go back and look again for we obviously got it wrong". He said it better than that, but that is how I understand it.

God's will is found in the Bible..but it still takes searching to find it in there. :) Study will never be complete.

The Bible is far more than a collection of parables, it actually contains a lot of history which has been corroborated by other souces (the Babylonians were very good record keepers). It is the life and times of a people, where they went wrong, why, how they could fix it. It also gives us a peek into the mind of God.

The Bible is like an onion, it has many layers. The surface layer is enough for most people and it is a great guide on how to live your life. It tells us what God wants for us and what we should do to please Him. It goes much deeper than that, but much study and understanding is needed.

For example, the tale of the Prodigal Son (which is a parable of course), is actually a derivation of a VERY well known Jewish parable from before Jesus was born. In the Jewish version, the father is sitting at the gate and the son comes grovelling to him - but he turns his back on the son and the son has to go away alone. Sounds horrible, right? But wait, there is something we do not know but the Jews would. To get your inheritance, your father must die. To get it early, you must tell your father he is dead to you. You must legally call him dead. When that is done, the two of you can never talk again, for the father is dead...and you cannot hold a conversation with the dead. So the son "killed" his father and took his inheritance and left...then wanted to come back and have a father again later. Too late. Also, the father must consider the son to be dead and gone forever.

What Jesus did is say that this is the wrong view to have. The Torah is not for death, but for life! The father in Jesus' version proclaims that his son who was dead has returned to life. What father would not happily embrace a son he thought was dead but later found was not dead at all? Jesus preached forgiveness for it. The son would never receive another shekel of inhertance, but he regained a father.

There is so much more there than just the basic story of forgiveness...but without knowing about the culture and the times it is lost.


Also, many of the rules of The Law (which only apply to Jews) are there as God's way of seeing if we will do what He says. The food laws are one which God did not explain, just said "do it". The basic explaination of why comes down to surrendering to God. Food is the only thing in your life you have 100% control over (provided you actually have food that is). Ever try to force a baby to eat when it does not want to eat? Failure has never been so complete as when you try to do that. God basically said the Jews are to give Him control over the only thing they truly have control of simply because He said so.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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The Christian answer for that is God inspired the writers. In other words, God wrote it through them.

Yep, and then God made sure they did not write it down wrong. The individual styles and flair are apparent and allowed since that does not change the message.
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
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So, self replication isn't purposeful, is what you're saying?

You don't see design, is just like saying "I don't see a purpose".

There is no purpose. There is no meaning to life.

You can't deal with that so you rely on some external imaginary figure to give your life worth.
 
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RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
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No meaning to life?

Well, why do you feel that way, seriously.. I really am genuinely curious..

Your question doesn't make any sense.

It's llike asking why energy can't be created or destroyed. It just is.

In this incarnation of the universe those are the laws. We exist.

There's no purpose.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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That's why this thread is still going. It is another pointless discussion of religion vs. science. Here, let me end this for you two:

Evolution doesn't disprove the existence of God, nor does the existence of God disprove evolution.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Your question doesn't make any sense.

It's llike asking why energy can't be created or destroyed. It just is.

In this incarnation of the universe those are the laws. We exist.

Maybe, maybe not.

Chapter 8
LIMITATION OF THE LAW OF ENERGY CONSERVATION

The structures of electron, proton and atoms are "perpetually rotating system" at the very basic level of the universe. The universal space (absolute vacuum) itself is the most fundamental dynamic plenum. Therefore, achieving "perpetual motion" through electromagnetic machines is a total future possibility, since the ratio of energy output/energy input has already exceeded unity
http://depalma.pair.com/Tewari/Chap8.html

It is still in the experimental stage, but it bears looking into. In science, we do not say things just are as they are, we need to support them.

There's no purpose.

You have a very depressing faith based belief system. :(
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Oh yea, definitely :rolleyes:

:) You do not have to believe, you are free to hold whatever faith based belief system you desire to hold. That is the beauty of being in the US (and most other western nations), you are allowed to be wrong.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,766
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:) You do not have to believe, you are free to hold whatever faith based belief system you desire to hold. That is the beauty of being in the US (and most other western nations), you are allowed to be wrong.

And right, nice jab at the end there :)

You free to hold the whatever beliefs you wish until you impose those same beliefs on others in a fashion that violates their freedoms as well.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
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:) You do not have to believe, you are free to hold whatever faith based belief system you desire to hold. That is the beauty of being in the US (and most other western nations), you are allowed to be wrong.

You are also allowed to be wrong, as you are on this issue.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
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Wow, this thread is competing with the Martin/Zim thread for the Mumm-Ra the Everliving Thread of ATPN award.