D-SLR Owners -=1st Pics from my EOS-10D=-

[Sketcher]

-EDIT: 5-03-03 Links in this thread no longer exist.

[-EDIT: 4-13-03 1700 EOS-10D & EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM in hand!! (Recovering from pain in the ass caused by hole in wallet).

-EDIT: 4-13-03 1000 Best Buy has them in!! (Not advertised) Picking it up TODAY Thanks lirion!!

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Pics Removed.

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I?ve changed gears and am going full on D-SLR. Was Stalking the Powershot G3 for the last couple months.

I?m now researching the Canon EOS-10D. My wife still wants to venture into Film photography and I prefer Digital. Canon has a HUGE range of EOS Lenses and they are cross compatible with both SLR formats. So, with long term financial consideration in mind I believe we are better off plunging in with D-SLR now and benefiting from the shared components between our format interests.

The Canon EOS-10D is highly regarded by Phil Askey in dpreview.com's March 2003 EOS-10D Conclusion

? I have no concerns in stating that as things stand (at the time of writing this review) the EOS-10D is the absolute best in class, with the best image quality, lowest high sensitivity noise, superb build quality and excellent price (not to mention the huge choice of lenses).?

I will likely keep an eye out for a used G3 down the road ? It?s always nice to have an exceptional backup camera (I had a really hard time finally placing the call to my CDW Rep to cancel my G3 order!). Ultimately, Parrotheader you?re correct. And this is the route I?ve decided to go. For what we want to do we really need our first step to be fully into the D-SLR world.

For those of you who are in D-SLR, I?m interested in your feedback!! I welcome the arguments for/against taking the plunge as well ? it helps me better understand my own reasoning as well as appreciate yours

Time to start stalking the EOS-10D? shhhhhhh?. Weee?re whunting Wabbits!!

-Any of you D-SLR owners out there interested in joining the hunt!?

 

[Parrotheader]

copied from my reply in the other (now old) thread:

Yikes! I didn't mean for you to make a huge change in direction after you'd already placed an order. I just was going to add my $0.02 since I just thought you were still in the shopping/research phase. Still, I do think if you're going to spend that much on a G3 camera, given your apparent interest in the subject it probably would make sense to get a toehold in the SLR world for just a little bit more (or even less if you got a used digital SLR - not counting the cost of lenses of course .) And your logic about being able to share lenses between the digital and film SLR's makes sense as well.

Just to throw in some plugs and give some examples from my friends' sites who eventually upgraded to SLR:

Some of Manny's stuff:
www.neiconiphotography.com (he does photography on the side; getting a lot of biz lately)
http://www.neiconi.com/camera/D30/ (misc images - many have been resized)
http://www.neiconiphotography.com/misc/ (a couple raw images)

Some of Eric's stuff:
http://www.macgeeksonline.com/photo/index.html

Forums at FredMiranda.com (where they sometimes hang out - good for advanced beginners to low end pros; relatively small community):
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: Parrotheader
Yikes! I didn't mean for you to make a huge change in direction after you'd already placed an order.

No worries Parrotheader!! I was already thinking along those lines, and once I placed the G3 order, talked with the wife about our photography interests and our financial goals we just couldn't see spending the money on the G3 when where we ultimately want to apply our interests in in SLR.

Those are excellent sites you referenced from your friends. Great forum too by the way! It's already helped me make my first portrait lense decision and I'm looking forward to lurking there for a while.

Nice to have those kinds of friends

 

[amnesiac]

I was *this* close to splurging on a D10 myself.. I could get it at Ritz Camera with 5% off from Ebates. They tend to get them in stock faster too.

I already have a Canon EOS A2 so I could sell the body for that camera and keep the lenses.

Instead I opted for something portable and convenient for travel, so I got a Pentax Optio S. I'll stick with film for my "real" photographs for now.

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The 10D is bad-ass, no doubt, but it's also 2x the price. I need a JOB before I can start dreaming of that stuff.

I hear ya! I've been saving for a while - and realizing how much we're spending on studio portraits and want to have a sweet 'portable' piece of professional gear, it's time to take the plunge.

"bad-ass" yeah, and because it's that too!!

 

[Wallydraigle]

The thing is, I've never owned a film SLR. Although the pricepoint of DSLRs is lower than it's ever been, they are still so much more expensive than film SLRs that with the difference you could buy a couple really nice lenses. If you figure in the cost of film and processing though, the extra money isn't that big a deal, it's just that you're dumping it all out at once. If you do decide to get a DSLR be sure to count the cost of lenses. Good glass is very pricey, and it sucks to get socked with expenses you didn't count on.
I have lenses that cost much more than a film SLR:Q! What lenses you need to get depends on what you want to do with your camera and you need to figure that out when you budget.

The advantage is that you will be able to do things with your DSLR that would never be possible with your point and shoot.

There is much more info on the net about the advantages of film over digital and digital over film than I can possibly provide here. Both are better at certain things that the other, and you need to figure out which one is for you. As for me, unless something drastic happens I'll never own a film camera again.

Canon's EOS lenses are, my opinion, the finest all-around 35mm platform you can buy. The variety is staggering, and the technology is amazing. You pay for it though.

One thing to take into consideration with the 10D is that every image you take is cropped by a factor of 1.6 in comparison to a 35mm frame. What that means is that if you are taking a shot with a 24mm lens, while the perspective stays the same, the field of view will be roughly the same as a shot taken with a 40mm lens on a 35mm camera. This is because the CMOS in the 10D is 1.6 times smaller than of a piece of 35mm film. This is to your disadvantage with wide angles, but to your great advantage with telephoto shots. A shot taken with a 400mm lens looks like one taken with a 640mm lens with a 35mm camera. Canon makes lenses as wide as 14mm though, so unless you need extremly wide coverage you can probably deal with this. Many wildlife photographers love this effect.


If you have any specific questions I probably help. The D60 I own is very similar to the new 10D.

 

[Wallydraigle]

Oh yeah, the 10D is all people are talking about right now over at the Canon DSLR forum at DPreview.com. I'm sure you can find out a great deal over there.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

My friend just bought a D10. bastard got his work to pay for half of it too. :|

 

[DuallyX]

Firstly, in order to continue posting in this topic, you must use the correct model name, 10D, and not D10.

Secondly, I too am thrilled about the release of the 10D at such a great price. Thanks to the release of the 10D I was able to pick up a D60 for $1050, so I saved $500 there, although I will miss the improved autofocus.

But the D60 is very familiar to me, as a former D30 owner. I feel right at home, great camera.

 

[crab]

I have a D30, and can't imagine being without it. Next camera will be without a doubt, the 10D. One thing you need to understand is, with an SLR, the glass strapped to the front is where the money goes. Lens quality with these things is a huge factor in your photographs, and I can't stress this enough. A decent 50mm f/1.4 is nearly $300...anything L series is usually over a grand.

All of my lenses are cheap...and I do find it shows.

My photos on photo.net

 

[UNCjigga]

ARRGH...I thought you said you were a total photography n00b??? If you really want to go SLR, film might be better...especially for someone starting out (it should be a lot more exciting.) Things like shutter speed, aperture, focal distance etc. are sort of superficial in the digital world...you might get a better understanding of these concepts by going full-film first. Plus, your pictures will come out a LOT better (though pro darkroom fees can be expensive!)

 

[Wallydraigle]

Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
ARRGH...I thought you said you were a total photography n00b??? If you really want to go SLR, film might be better...especially for someone starting out (it should be a lot more exciting.) Things like shutter speed, aperture, focal distance etc. are sort of superficial in the digital world...you might get a better understanding of these concepts by going full-film first. Plus, your pictures will come out a LOT better (though pro darkroom fees can be expensive!)

For most people just starting out the ability to see the results imediately is invaluable. I'm not sure why you think that shutter speed, aperture, and focal distance are any different when using a DSLR as opposed to a film SLR. Also most people can't tell the difference between identical prints made with 35mm and high end digital cameras, even at large sizes. The ones who can tell the difference notice that the digital prints have less grain. You can take a digital file to Walmart and have an 8x10 print made on their Frotier machine for $2-$3. You do all the post processing yourself, and you only print the photos you want to have printed.

 

[Sketcher]

I'll admit - the fast results is pretty much a clincher for me as well as the versatility and selective printing. My wife is interested in Film-SLR but make no mistake; I'm D-SLR committed and buying a 10D as soon as I find a shop who has them in stock for $1,329.00 or less!

I viewed some 8 x 10 and 13 x 19 prints today and couldn't tell the difference between the film & digital comparison (granted, they were professional photos and I probably don't know what to look for anyway - impressive nonetheless).

I'm firm on buying the EOS-10D though I have a bit more reading to do before I choose my first lens. I have a significant interest in Portait work (my Wife's always carting the kids off to the studio) but I want some versatility beyond portrait in the first lense as well.

1. My CDW Rep quoted me the 10D @ $1,329.00 (but like everyone else, they're on backorder )

2. For a first lense I'm considering: Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM @ $332.00 to give me good portrait quality and versatility. (Please reference actual Canon models thanks!)

How does that item sound for a first lense regarding my initial intended use? Any alternate recommendations?

 

[Sid59]

remember shooting portratits, the sweet spot in terms of focal length is around 85mm. Gives great proportion to all aspects of the face.

Also, that isn't a very fast lens. Can you find something a bit faster? Also, if you intend shooting portriture, get a nice tripod and a cable release, you'll be bound to shoot at slow shutters. Also, shoot a semi small apeture, i like to shoot at 8 or 11. Oh, and you'll need some nice lighting. Good luck.

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: Sid59
remember shooting portratits, the sweet spot in terms of focal length is around 85mm. Gives great proportion to all aspects of the face.

Also, that isn't a very fast lens. Can you find something a bit faster? Also, if you intend shooting portriture, get a nice tripod and a cable release, you'll be bound to shoot at slow shutters. Also, shoot a semi small apeture, i like to shoot at 8 or 11. Oh, and you'll need some nice lighting. Good luck.

I'm fresh out of the gates here, I'm not sure what you mean by "Fast lens". And when you say faster, what Canon lense would you recommend?

 

[Wallydraigle]

Originally posted by: Sketcher

Originally posted by: Sid59
remember shooting portratits, the sweet spot in terms of focal length is around 85mm. Gives great proportion to all aspects of the face.

Also, that isn't a very fast lens. Can you find something a bit faster? Also, if you intend shooting portriture, get a nice tripod and a cable release, you'll be bound to shoot at slow shutters. Also, shoot a semi small apeture, i like to shoot at 8 or 11. Oh, and you'll need some nice lighting. Good luck.

I'm fresh out of the gates here, I'm not sure what you mean by "Fast lens". And when you say faster, what Canon lense would you recommend?

By "faster" he means a larger maximum aperture. The smaller the f number. the larger the aperture, which lets in more light and allows the use of a faster shutter speed and a lower ISO. Canon makes an 85mm f/1.2 lens. This is an exceptionally sharp lens and can produce some extrordinary portraits. Photographers sometimes jokingly say that this is a "magic" lens it's so sweet. I have one, and it is really nice. The only drawback is that it costs $1500. Canon also makes a f/1.8 version which is much cheaper if not quite as nice.

For portraits you'll want a lens with a large aperture so you can produce a thin depth of field to isolate your subjects from the background. This is important to give your portraits a smooth and professional look.

You can pick up a 50mm f/1.4 lens for ~$300, or a 50mm f/1.8 lens for ~$80. That would be my best advice until you get a feel for things, and see where you want to go from there. Either of those lenses will make a fine portrait lens given the 1.6x crop of the 10D.

By the way, OneCall.com was supposed to get about 30 10d's in today. Give them a call and see if it was true and if they still have any.

Post pics when you can!

 

[GTaudiophile]

Pekka's work with a D30 never ceases to impress me.

 

[DuallyX]

A second for the 50mm f1.8. I owned the 24-85 with my D30, and while it was a decent lens, the sharpness of the 50mm is simply amazing. Not to mention being able to shoot indoors with available light due to the larger aperture.

Prime lenses are generally going to always be sharper than zooms. There are few L zooms that are as sharp as even teh 50mm f1.8 or f1.4, it just makes that much of a difference, especially at the edges of the frame.

If you are looking for a decent zoom that doesn't cost over 1k, you might look for a used 28-80 L. You can find them at KEH.com. No, it isn't as nice as the newer 28-70 and 24-70, but it'll beat out the 24-85 with no contest. (unless you really need that 24mm end)

Also, if you are doing portraits, you have even less need for the improvements on the 10D over the D60. Your subject will be stationary, you should have adequate lighting, so you don't really need the improved autofocus. You won't be in a hostile enviroment, so the plastic body would be ok. Just thought I would mention that, if you are on a tight budget like I was.

 

[Sketcher]

My Canon Forum post this am:

I'm new to the [Canon] forums, new to photography - been reading and saving for a while and just today purchased a 10D.

My CDW Rep quoted me $1,329.00 and it seemed good to me compared to most web shops, so I committed. Glad to see users here consider this a good price too!

My order's #179 of #230 which are due in April 30th (as of 1026 hrs Central US).

My head is already hurting from all the photography information flowing in that forum!

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Pekka's work with a D30 never ceases to impress me.

Pekka posts in that Canon forum and is starting to show his initial work with the 10D. He goes into great detail about post processing workflow. Ugh! More software learning

Originally posted by: crab453

I have a D30, and can't imagine being without it. Next camera will be without a doubt, the 10D. One thing you need to understand is, with an SLR, the glass strapped to the front is where the money goes. Lens quality with these things is a huge factor in your photographs, and I can't stress this enough. A decent 50mm f/1.4 is nearly $300...anything L series is usually over a grand.

True, from what I read and professionals whom I talk with at the local shops you really do get what you pay for. My glass purchase will certainly overtake the 10D body in a relatively short period of time (well, as short as the budget allows ).

Originally posted by: Sid59

remember shooting portratits, the sweet spot in terms of focal length is around 85mm. Gives great proportion to all aspects of the face.

Originally posted by: lirion

By "faster" he means a larger maximum aperture. The smaller the f number. the larger the aperture, which lets in more light and allows the use of a faster shutter speed and a lower ISO. Canon makes an 85mm f/1.2 lens. This is an exceptionally sharp lens and can produce some extrordinary portraits. Photographers sometimes jokingly say that this is a "magic" lens it's so sweet. I have one, and it is really nice. The only drawback is that it costs $1500. Canon also makes a f/1.8 version which is much cheaper if not quite as nice.

For portraits you'll want a lens with a large aperture so you can produce a thin depth of field to isolate your subjects from the background. This is important to give your portraits a smooth and professional look.

You can pick up a 50mm f/1.4 lens for ~$300, or a 50mm f/1.8 lens for ~$80. That would be my best advice until you get a feel for things, and see where you want to go from there. Either of those lenses will make a fine portrait lens given the 1.6x crop of the 10D.

Originally posted by: Dual700s

A second for the 50mm f1.8. I owned the 24-85 with my D30, and while it was a decent lens, the sharpness of the 50mm is simply amazing. Not to mention being able to shoot indoors with available light due to the larger aperture.

Prime lenses are generally going to always be sharper than zooms. There are few L zooms that are as sharp as even teh 50mm f1.8 or f1.4, it just makes that much of a difference, especially at the edges of the frame.

If you are looking for a decent zoom that doesn't cost over 1k, you might look for a used 28-80 L. You can find them at KEH.com. No, it isn't as nice as the newer 28-70 and 24-70, but it'll beat out the 24-85 with no contest. (unless you really need that 24mm end).

Are you guys sayin' I can't just slap a $1,000.00 lens on that sucker and shoot everything from Macro to BFE Zoom!? Come on now, this is the Digital Age!

I've printed this thread out for reference & starting point. I don't know enough about lenses to ask any more questions atm, but I'll see if I can soak in what you've all posted and understand the basics a bit better. I'm looking into taking classes at the National Camera Exchange, but so far I can't meet the hours they run... then there's the kids... I'll likely just end up reading and posting just as I'm doing now and at least have a modicum of knowledge to start clicking with when the camera arrives.

I do have some more questions about the first lens I should buy, but will ask that question of you guys when I have more knowledge on my end. Simple things like "Prime" vs "Zoom" regarding aperture and image sharpness, really Really REALLY basic stuff like THIS and then there's that 1.6x crop on the 10D that lirion mentions...

One aspect of this learning which I'm excited about is though I'm buying a "Digital" SLR, I am learning "Photography". Darkroom expenses and insufficient funds have always deterred me from getting into the hobby. Now I can get my feet wet with the potential to go much further with greater flexibility, for much less. Though, I can see there will always be that 'next' lens to stalk .


lirion, crab453, Dual700s,

1. Which Digitals do you own?

2. Which lenses were your first?

3. What are YOU stalking now (next Camera/lens/accessories purchases)?

4. What are you STALKING now (subject you are photographing)?


Thanks for all the Great info guys!

 

[crab]

lirion, crab453, Dual700s,

1. Which Digitals do you own?

Canon EOS-D30

2. Which lenses were your first?

Canon EF 75-300 f/4-5.6 III
Canon EF 28-80 f/3.5-5.6 II

Cheapest of the cheap.

3. What are YOU stalking now?

What am I taking pictures of? Aircraft mostly.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: Sketcher
Are you guys sayin' I can't just slap a $1,000.00 lens on that sucker and shoot everything from Macro to BFE Zoom!? Come on now, this is the Digital Age!

Yeah... the digital age... wait a year and you'll be able to shoot micro to Hubble and it'll cost you $60. But by that time newer and better will already be seducing you.

(After rebate, of course.)

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Pekka's work with a D30 never ceases to impress me.

nice shots .. the camera doesn't make the photographer .. the photographer makes the camera ..


Sketcher ...

Although i mentioned that the lens you're intending to buy isn't fast, it's still a good lens. Prolly a good starter lens. The only problem you might run into is narrowing down the depth of field on a gloom day or at sunset. That lens doesn't cut it in that sense. So .. go for it and learn from it.

lirion ...

you shoot portraits at 1.2? I did that for a project, 36 shots on a single roll and not a single shot came out nice. Great exposure but due to the lack of depth of field and the angle at which my subject was sitting, her chin and parts of her cheeks were softening from lack of depth of field. aww, well .. ended up reshooting and came out with some good ones.

if anyone didn't already know .. don't take just one shot of anything .. different exposures (shutter and apeture) .. different angles and such. Great advice for digital people. Especially those who can work it manually (shutter and apeture). The point and shoot crowd is a bit different, can't control as much.

 

[Wallydraigle]

Originally posted by: Sid59

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Pekka's work with a D30 never ceases to impress me.

nice shots .. the camera doesn't make the photographer .. the photographer makes the camera ..


Sketcher ...

Although i mentioned that the lens you're intending to buy isn't fast, it's still a good lens. Prolly a good starter lens. The only problem you might run into is narrowing down the depth of field on a gloom day or at sunset. That lens doesn't cut it in that sense. So .. go for it and learn from it.

lirion ...

you shoot portraits at 1.2? I did that for a project, 36 shots on a single roll and not a single shot came out nice. Great exposure but due to the lack of depth of field and the angle at which my subject was sitting, her chin and parts of her cheeks were softening from lack of depth of field. aww, well .. ended up reshooting and came out with some good ones.

if anyone didn't already know .. don't take just one shot of anything .. different exposures (shutter and apeture) .. different angles and such. Great advice for digital people. Especially those who can work it manually (shutter and apeture). The point and shoot crowd is a bit different, can't control as much.

I've messed around with different things at f/1.2. With the narrow depth of field this provides you can achieve a variety of interesting effects, but yeah, stopping down a bit is usually better for protraits.

1. Which Digitals do you own?

2. Which lenses were your first?

3. What are YOU stalking now (next Camera/lens/accessories purchases)?

4. What are you STALKING now (subject you are photographing)?

1) I have an Olympus E10 and a Canon D60.

2) When I bought the D60 I ran across a retired guy selling all his photo gear, so I got the following for a pretty good price:

EF 28-70mm f/2.8 L USM
EF 85mm f/1.2 L USM
EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L USM IS
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L USM IS

That's some really nice glass. I was lucky to find such a deal, but it still cost an arm and a leg. I've acquired other lenses since then.

3) My next purchase will be flashes and flash brackets to use with my telephoto macro lens.

4) Right now I've been shooting a lot of spring wildflowers. I'm waiting for warmer weather to get underway so I can shoot caterpillars which are a favorite subject of mine. I also plan to shoot as many different insect and spiders as I can. Slime molds are also a favorite subject of mine.


I just found out that a lot of Best Buy brick and mortars have a very limited supply of 10Ds in stock. I'm talking 2-4 per store here, and the rank and file don't even know they have them. They're not in the computer, and you have to make them physically go check inventory. They should pricematch CDW if you have something in writing with a price on it. I'm pretty sure that not every store has them, but as I understand it quite a few do, so it's worth a try if you want to get your hands on one sooner.

 

[Sketcher]

Originally posted by: lirion

1) I have an Olympus E10 and a Canon D60.

2) When I bought the D60 I ran across a retired guy selling all his photo gear, so I got the following for a pretty good price:

EF 28-70mm f/2.8 L USM
EF 85mm f/1.2 L USM
EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L USM IS
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L USM IS

That's some really nice glass. I was lucky to find such a deal, but it still cost an arm and a leg. I've acquired other lenses since then.

3) My next purchase will be flashes and flash brackets to use with my telephoto macro lens.

4) Right now I've been shooting a lot of spring wildflowers. I'm waiting for warmer weather to get underway so I can shoot caterpillars which are a favorite subject of mine. I also plan to shoot as many different insect and spiders as I can. Slime molds are also a favorite subject of mine.


I just found out that a lot of Best Buy brick and mortars have a very limited supply of 10Ds in stock. I'm talking 2-4 per store here, and the rank and file don't even know they have them. They're not in the computer, and you have to make them physically go check inventory. They should pricematch CDW if you have something in writing with a price on it. I'm pretty sure that not every store has them, but as I understand it quite a few do, so it's worth a try if you want to get your hands on one sooner.

Wow, nice stuff!! I've been reading up on lenses all day and I know for a fact that those you list there must run a solid $200.00 for the lot!! . Drool. it's gonna take me a couple years just for my budget to allow that range! And those are all "L"'s. O.k., make it three years

My Uncle is a old school photog with his own dark room and more Nikon glass than he can put a value on. I've linked him to your pic gallery and he loves your work! He's encouraged to get back in the saddle and he's now saving up to get into D-SLR and brush the dust off his gear. Too bad it's not Canon stuff - and personally I'm more sold on the Canon 10D and lenses than a Nikon D100.

I'm going to Best Buy tomorrow to lean on the stockroom clerk. I've got my CDW confirmation order in hand and if they Pricematch, Hoo ahh!! Thanks for the tip on that! Trying not to get too excited though - too much to hope for. Ahhh man... Now I'm not going to sleep tonight Get the night over with already!

 

[her209]

Where are you buyin the lenses from?