Cyanogen partnering with Microsoft?

[jhu]

Straight from Cyanogen. So how is this going to affect Cyanogenmod?

 

[ChronoReverse]

They're mostly separate entities now so it shouldn't affect it directly. This is really bad for image though.

 

[Dulanic]

They're mostly separate entities now so it shouldn't affect it directly. This is really bad for image though.

This isn't just bad for their image, it destroys their image. Stupid stupid stupid.

 

[sweenish]

Cyanogen has made zero correct moves since their inception.

Clarification: Who is based on whom?

 

[poofyhairguy]

It is a smart move.

Cyanogen is forking Android. The plan is to take AOSP and turn it into a complete OS without Google services. Amazon tried to do the same and failed so far, but Amazon was arrogant enough to think they could completely replace Google.

CM isn't so arrogant. They are using the best of breed to fill in what Google doesn't provide: Amazon's store instead of the Play Store, Spotify over Google Music, Dropbox over Google Drive, Evernote over Keep, etc. They will change the OS so these apps are more integrated, and make it so when an app wants a part of the Google API (say a call to pull up a place in Google Maps) and alternative gets pulled instead.

Microsoft is a natural partner for this. They have built this mobile ecosystem with Cortana, Maps, Bing search, etc. that can fill in a huge part of the gap that taking out Google leaves.

I think the "image" damage done to CM is minimal. All us nerds ROMing with CM doesn't directly bring them revenue. All we are are numbers on a sheet, so CM can impress investors or OEMs with "we are on X million phones" or "we have X million users." Pretty soon the part of legacy of CM as a way to get AOSP Android on skinned devices won't matter.

The future is this fork, which almost none of us will want because of a lack of Google services. I know I wouldn't want an Android phone without Google Play. It isn't for an American market.

What this is for is low-end, low-margin devices in emerging markets. In the long run CM plans to replace the Amazon Store with their own store, and as part of it give OEMs a piece of the revenue if they ship with the CM store. This is a gamechanger at the lowend, as it gives them revenue off devices throughout their life and not just at purchase. I could see CM chopping off the bottom 10% of the Android user pyramid with that move alone, Google will never give them a piece of Play Store revenue.

Sure those people in those markets will have an inferior experience compared to a real Android phone, but honestly a lot of Google services assume an "always connected" lifestyle that only applies in the developed world (the SD card back and forth was an example of that). I think for a lot of people alternative services might be as good or better, and we could be looking at a Whatsapp OS basically.

I won't hold it against CM if they are successful with MS. The main developer years ago watched as others made MILLIONS on CM in the form of Miui (which stole a lot of his work to work). Him running a billion dollar company that competes in that same space is fitting for me.

I won't use CM Roms anymore, but that is because I am sick of hacked together Android OSes. I have learned the hard way only OEMs have the access to build stable and feature complete OSes for their devices, and so I would rather reward companies that do that instead of buying devices for their hardware and hoping someone can hack together a CM ROM on XDA.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Cyanogen has made zero correct moves since their inception.

The company is valued at a billion bucks and has some heavy hitting tech investors like Twitter backing them. I think they have made a lot of VERY smart moves.

Many many companies are nervous about Google. Everyone gave MS crap about anti-trust, but Google not only controls the OS but they compete across a WIDE range of services. You think Facebook or Twitter or Dropbox or Spotify want Google (who competes with all of them directly in some way) to be their OS gatekeeper? No way.

CM is harnessing this Google backlash and giving these companies a focus point to create a real alternative for Android. CM wants to start a cold war, and they have a lot of backers.

The only real mistake I think they have made is all the tough rhetoric while they were still depending on Google. They should have waiting until their fork was shipping to go into the whole "we are going to shoot Google in the head" thing, as now Google is dragging their feet giving Play Store approval for phones that are running the old style of CM (like the One Plus One).

But if they can get through the growing pains I could see the CM OS beating Windows Mobile in marketshare within five years.

 

[lopri]

It looks like a payment to Microsoft in the form of bloatware to consumers, which other Android OEMs partake this year. MS must have switched its policy with regard to whatever patents it holds in Android, preferring to be seen up front to being paid behind the scene. Samsung and Sony did it, and I guess LG and Moto will follow.

Cyanogen seem to generate quite a bit of controversies for what it is, though. Splits, legal fights, Rupert Murdoch,..

 

[paperwastage]

They're mostly separate entities now so it shouldn't affect it directly. This is really bad for image though.

It's still possible for stuff in cyanogenOS to affect cyanogenMOD because they share the same common "bits" (cm skin/changes/tweaks/settings to the OS, launcher etc, has to pass google CTS)


the difference between the two, in case people don't know
cyanogenOS (the commercial version with proprietary libs/apps, not open source, is maintained by paid people on the CM company) is shipped officially on some phones (OPO, micromax,...), has google apps pre-installed, HAS TO pass Google CTS

cyanogenMOD is the open source community-driven version. Some developer in the community (not paid, doing in his/her free time) ports/builds/maintains a ROM for a device. cannot include google apps by default, doesn't have to pass Google CTS, so you have a new build every day or compile a build yourself)





my thoughts: cyanogen has a specific brand. it appeals to end-users/developers/people-who-tinker due to the fact that it's open, can be modified easily, frequent updates etc.

if you try to officially put cyanogen bits onto a phone, a lot of those things change...

people who buy a cyanogen phone because they have heard of the cyanogen brand, and expect that same level of "openness" -> will be disappointed

people who buy a cyanogen phone, but haven't heard of cyanogen brand (and don't care)-> what difference does cyanogen make to them versus a HTC sense skin or Samsung touchwiz skin?

you see similar struggles/problems/difficulties in companies whose product has a dual-license (open source/free vs paid/paid-support) -> RHEL

But if they can get through the growing pains I could see the CM OS beating Windows Mobile in marketshare within five years.

It'll be hard..

A) Google is moving a lot of stuff in AOSP back into closed sources/apps. CM will have to replicate all of that

B) No android forks if you join Open Handset Alliance or have other agreements with google. more reading material

You left out Google's licensing agreements with hardware manufacturers, which prohibits them from shipping incompatible (read non-GMS containing) Android devices based on AOSP code AND GMS devices. Basically, a hardware OEM will have all GMS applications rejected if they build an AOSP-based device for a different software vendor. Amazon has had to shop around a *lot* to find an OEM for the Kindle - it has to be an OEM with no ambitions of becoming their own Android brand.

Amazon is trying with their Amazon-ecosystem. Samsung is trying with their Tizen-ecosystem. not much luck...

I won't use CM Roms anymore, but that is because I am sick of hacked together Android OSes. I have learned the hard way only OEMs have the access to build stable and feature complete OSes for their devices, and so I would rather reward companies that do that instead of buying devices for their hardware and hoping someone can hack together a CM ROM on XDA.

or get a nexus phone where the custom ROMs are usually stable because AOSP is used to directly build the official ROM, and the custom ROMs modify the AOSP information

i have a nexus 5 because I value that.... (over a removable battery, microSD, better camera)

 

[poofyhairguy]

Amazon is trying with their Amazon-ecosystem. Samsung is trying with their Tizen-ecosystem. not much luck...

Yeah but both of them went for the highend developed markets. CM is going to focus on the developing world where the standards are lower. Xiaomi rode Miui to the top, it can be done. It won't be easy, but luckily for them they can do it in stages. I trust them to make a better Android fork than Amazon.

I have Nexus envy bad. I will buy the next reasonably sized one.

 

[lxskllr]

The future is this fork, which almost none of us will want because of a lack of Google services. I know I wouldn't want an Android phone without Google Play. It isn't for an American market.

I'd love to have a Google free phone, but I'm not interested in replacing Google proprietary crap, with proprietary crap from several companies. I'd like to see a portable O/S like Debian. GPL, default install 100% libre, but access to proprietary software without moving earth and sky. Replicant is interesting, but the insistence on being all libre means the device list is tiny, and not feature complete.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'd love to have a Google free phone, but I'm not interested in replacing Google proprietary crap, with proprietary crap from several companies.

The license for the Android Open Source Project is the Apache Software License, so there is a freely available open source operating system without the proprietary crap, even though you would have to be careful because not all hardware has open source drivers. Something from Qualcomm could work though.

CM before you flash the Google Apps is basically the OS you speak of. Free, open source, and able to use proprietary stuff via apks. There isn't an apt-get, but apkmirror is better than any rpm site back in Redhat's heyday.

Most people want the services and the app store that comes with all that Google junk, and that means a lot of functionality in the AOSP is limited when features are only developed in Google's proprietary apps that come from from the closed off Play Store. As the post cited above that trend is getting worse.

The CM guys say they are going to keep their fork OS open but we will see. I expect an Ubuntu-ish compromise.

 

[jhu]

I'd love to have a Google free phone, but I'm not interested in replacing Google proprietary crap, with proprietary crap from several companies. I'd like to see a portable O/S like Debian. GPL, default install 100% libre, but access to proprietary software without moving earth and sky. Replicant is interesting, but the insistence on being all libre means the device list is tiny, and not feature complete.

These two sentences are diametric. There's absolutely no way to get a 100% libre phone OS due to all the closed drivers.

 

[lxskllr]

These two sentences are diametric. There's absolutely no way to get a 100% libre phone OS due to all the closed drivers.

Radios will never be free due to the FCC. There's no reason the rest of the firmware can't be free, either directly from the companies, or reverse engineered. That's the reason Replicant is disappointing. They're free or nothing, hence the small support list. I want an O/S that makes a best effort at being free, but doesn't hold up a whole device due to non-free blobs. I'll take what I can get.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Radios will never be free due to the FCC. There's no reason the rest of the firmware can't be free, either directly from the companies, or reverse engineered. That's the reason Replicant is disappointing. They're free or nothing, hence the small support list. I want an O/S that makes a best effort at being free, but doesn't hold up a whole device due to non-free blobs. I'll take what I can get.

So basically the Ubuntu model vs Debian

 

[lxskllr]

So basically the Ubuntu model vs Debian

More or less, but Ubuntu values convenience over freedom. The Ubuntu model is Cyanogen today. Debian would be "You can use our standard image, but GPS won't work. If *you* explicitely allow it, non-free drivers are available for functioning GPS".