CVT powetrains.

[OverVolt]

I was surprised no one brought this up.

So in the 2014 Forester, they new have a CVT as part of the powertrain. This is new. These transmissions are 100% sealed and should last maintenance free for the life of the car.

I think the first mass-market mainstream cars using these were Nissan's around 2009-2010? I could definitely be mistaken.

So in the 2013 Forester you got 27mpg highway with the automatic. In the 2014 model with a CVT you get 32mpg with essentially the same engine/weight.

See here: http://www.manchestersubaru.com/cvt-transmission.htm on the subaru version

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission on wiki

How do you guys feel about this stuff? How will these things wear over time?

They can maintain peak engine efficiency or peak engine power rpm. But actually cause more friction loss of power over a manual or automatic. Yet still get better MPG by exploiting peak engine efficiency. They can't handle large amounts of torque. Its driven by a chain, eek. It can "simulate" a manual, although that would seem pointless, more like a gimmick considering mechanically what these transmissions do. Thoughts?

 

[thedarkwolf]

I think I'd get the manual option

 

[JulesMaximus]

CVTs are not new. They've been in many cars for more than a decade now, I have one in my daily driver.

From a driver's perspective I hate them. It is the slushiest slush-box you'll ever drive, but they are very smooth and they are more fuel efficient. I wouldn't say it's a gimmick though, they are pretty mainstream and they seem to be fairly reliable from what I can tell.

 

[MiataNC]

CVT are a love or hate proposition. They are all reliable, but some feel better than others. I recommend driving the specific car(s) you are interested in, and see if you like it or not. Each one will have similar characteristics, but they will all feel different.

I prefer manual over anything else, but I am a dinosaur.

 

[tortillasoup]

"These transmissions are 100% sealed and should last maintenance free for the life of the car."

I don't believe that, show me where it says it has "lifetime fluid"... I find it extremely hard to believe they would make a CVT where you couldn't change the transmission fluid as by design, they'll wear a lot faster than most other transmission setups. Just because it doesn't have a dipstick, doesn't mean the transmission fluid shouldn't be changed.

 

[dawp]

the subaru justy had a cvt back in the early 90s in the us and earlier in other parts of the world.

 

[MadScientist]

"These transmissions are 100% sealed and should last maintenance free for the life of the car."

I don't believe that, show me where it says it has "lifetime fluid"... I find it extremely hard to believe they would make a CVT where you couldn't change the transmission fluid as by design, they'll wear a lot faster than most other transmission setups. Just because it doesn't have a dipstick, doesn't mean the transmission fluid shouldn't be changed.

I have a 2009 Nissan Versa SL with a CVT that has 78K on it. I recently took it to the dealer to have the transmission fluid checked. They checked it with their Consult III computer program.
From the Nissan Versa Service Manual:
“CVTF DETERIORATION DATE”
More than 210000:
It is necessary to change CVT fluid.
Less than 210000:
It is not necessary to change CVT fluid

Not sure what this number means, but mine read 1200. It has a semi-sealed dipstick that can be removed. They also visually checked the fluid and it was crystal clear. It's not a "lifetime fluid", but should last longer than ordinary transmission fluid.

Versa and Note service manuals can be downloaded from here: http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Versa/

From a driver's perspective, the Versa's CVT is smooth and has adequate acceleration, but is a bit noisy. I'm getting about 32 MPG average.

 

[desy]

yes
CVTs don't use transmission fluid, I asked about my 09 Altima and they said it didn't need it and I have 85k miles.
I couldn't find the maint cycle for it in the manual

 

[tweakmonkey]

They're definitely not new as mentioned, but they are becoming more popular. My friend's 2001 Insight had one. It had no issues after 200k and will probably last a lonnggggg time. Also they're simple if anything does go wrong. I think it's the most efficient way to run a car.

Only bad thing is they're boring to drive and the sound it makes "VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" at the same RPM is just atrocious IMO. The 5 speed Insight was exactly 75x more fun to drive than the CVT.

 

[Midwayman]

Yup, CVTs are terrible for people who enjoy driving. I think the worst is when they pretend to be "geared" so they don't weird people out. However for the average driver who sees a car as an appliance, I think they are awesome. It's something I'd put my wife into anyways.

 

[Leyawiin]

Have a Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback that uses the same Jatco CVT that Nissan and Subaru uses. Its fine. Took a little to get used to the lack of shifts, but now I don't even notice. It has a decent sized four (2.4, 168 HP) so about the only time it gets really loud is if I have to floor it to get on a short freeway onramp... which isn't often. I was leery of CVTs prior to this car - now it wouldn't be a con in my book when purchasing.

 

[npaladin-2000]

Yup, CVTs are terrible for people who enjoy driving. I think the worst is when they pretend to be "geared" so they don't weird people out. However for the average driver who sees a car as an appliance, I think they are awesome. It's something I'd put my wife into anyways.

No one has bothered trying to create a responsive, performance-oriented CVT, partially because every motorsport has pretty much outlawed them, except for F-snowmobile-engine.

Then again, given that CVTs have a functional reliance on being able to slip in order to change ratios, it might be difficult to engineer out enough slip to make them satisfying to drive.

 

[LTC8K6]

The 2.4-liter is quieter at idle than some other direct-injection engines with their clattering high-pressure injectors, particularly Hyundai’s. And the Honda likes to rev, sounding healthy and full throated at its 6400-rpm power peak. But it’s the CVT’s tuning that makes the Accord feel fleet. The typical rubber-band delay has been minimized, and the throttle responds curtly when you ask for acceleration (although sometimes with some audible transmission whine at high revs). In mountain snakers as well as on city streets, the CVT works so efficiently that it all but disappears, and you never notice the lack of a manual control. Of course, we’d prefer the optional six-speed stick, with its tightly spaced gates and short throws—but, finally, a belt-and-pulley transmission we can live with!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-first-drive-review

 

[nisryus]

Compared to Nissan, I like the Subaru's CVT way better. It is smooth and we never have problem. It did took my wife a bit to get used to as wife used to almost floor the accelerator when she drives.. (scary but she did that all the time..) So far we average 30 mpg, but it varies and I don't really trust the indicator they have on the dash.

 

[msmy300z]

I am intrigued by Subaru's decision to put a CVT in the new WRX. I guess we will find out if they can pull off a CVT in a sporty car.... Haven't seen a review of the CVT model yet.

 

[npaladin-2000]

I am intrigued by Subaru's decision to put a CVT in the new WRX. I guess we will find out if they can pull off a CVT in a sporty car.... Haven't seen a review of the CVT model yet.

I don't think they had a choice, it's the only "automatic" they have now that they retired the old 4 speed and 5 speed automatics. Which were way out of date anyway. But they don't have a 6 speed automatic and they don't have a DCT, so they're stuck using what they've got.

 

[Mide]

The prius was toated as having a CVT that you didn't have to change the fluid on. I did it anyway and the liquid was quite discolored after 40k vs the new red Toyota fluid it was refilled with.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

my cvt car of choice, an old beater from 1993:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto

 

[tortillasoup]

The prius was toated as having a CVT that you didn't have to change the fluid on. I did it anyway and the liquid was quite discolored after 40k vs the new red Toyota fluid it was refilled with.

Well the prius "transmission fluid" is used for cooling the electric motors but otherwise the whole gearbox is just like a differential. All fluids in a vehicle should be changed at some point, it's just that the Prius transmission design is a bit more robust if everything is working properly.

 

[Mide]

Well the prius "transmission fluid" is used for cooling the electric motors but otherwise the whole gearbox is just like a differential. All fluids in a vehicle should be changed at some point, it's just that the Prius transmission design is a bit more robust if everything is working properly.

The prius actually has 3 fluids. Regular coolant, inverter coolant, and CVT tranny fluid that is drained/filled just like any diff.

 

[tortillasoup]

The prius actually has 3 fluids. Regular coolant, inverter coolant, and CVT tranny fluid that is drained/filled just like any diff.

correct.

 

[bryanl]

CVTs are less efficient at constant speeds, and their advantage in city driving isn't very much, even over a 4-speed automatic.

 

[dbk]

Honda Accord's newer CVT had been lauded by the press but an alarming amount of actual owners have suffered from the so called, CVT judder issue. Apparently it's been fixed via TSB (for the MY13 models) and from the factory (MY14). I didn't test drive the CVT and went straight for the manual. My only experience with CVT was in a '10 Altima. Didn't enjoy it at all but I see why that's way of the future.. oh well

 

[Murloc]

I've never been in or driven a CVT. I wonder how weird it is. Big japanese cars aren't much popular here, people who buy them are looking for a cheap SUV, hence they always get manuals, or they want a subaru WRX, and so they'll get it manual as well since it's a sporty car, or they just want a cheap small car, manual again. So there aren't many on the road I guess. Before the advent of automated transmission (mainly DCT), automatics were extremely rare as well. They managed to get people to like the modern DCTs, but I don't think the CVT has much of a chance.

 

[gorcorps]

Had a CVT in my Rogue and it was the best part of the car. Accelerating without having that shift lag feeling in a normal transmission was great. I kind of miss it