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Cutting the fat on mid-range build

F

fuzzymath10

Senior member
I'm trying to piece out a new system for my friend/coworker (this is Toronto, Canada so prices aren't quite as good as the US). She's looking for a good all-rounder, but does want to play games (D3 mostly for now) and wants it to be a decent looking, quiet system. However my current total is a bit over $1000, and that's too much. I'm going to list the parts I want (mid end for the most part), and propose a cut in each one that I'm not sure would fly. Prefer NCIX or Canada Computers since they are close by my place and I plan to buy in person, so can't easily work with online recommendations unless they are worthwhile (incl shipping).

CPU: i5 3570k ($230-240) - most other quad cores are not sufficiently cheaper so the only real alternative is something like an i3 2100 which saves about $80-90.

Mobo: looking at various matx z77 boards around $100-110; I like gigabyte so chose z77m-d3h. If I get the i3, I could also opt for a cheaper H61 or H67 board; I would OC the 3570k to maybe 4GHz just because that's easy enough and I don't want to risk more tinkering and maybe the stock HSF won't even handle it.

Ram: looking for 2x4GB. Not much room to save here; everything is $40-50.

SSD: I'm going to insist on a 120GB SSD; hard drives are unbearable. The M4 is about $120.

Hard drive: about $100 for 2TB. Could always get later. Not worth saving $25 for half the capacity.

Video card: looking at a 7850 for $240-250. I'm a big fan of efficiency so an older gen card isn't ideal but if there's one worth considering I'd take a look. 6850? 6870? 560[ti]? They run $150-180 which seems not that great. Was considering the IGP, but only worth it if it is the HD 4000 in the 3570k. Assume the resolution is 1080P; how is D3 going to play?

Case: currently suggesting PCA04 from Lian-Li. Can get it for $80. I like the case; I'm a fan of aluminum. If there's a quality minimalist case that is comparable but cheaper I'm all ears, but we're not teenagers anymore so prefer something conservative.

PSU: Seasonic S12II 520w. probably a tad on the overpowered side, but it is $60-70 in a combo with one of the other parts. I have the 380w version and I like it; I'm not familiar with other quality brands or models. The 7850 I'm looking at requires only one pci-e connector (I thought they used two). If her system can handle my 380w version, I might give it to her for free/cheap and get a FL version for myself.

Not worried about the OS; I've got a spare copy of W7 Pro around.
 
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Diablo 3 is a lightweight when it comes to hardware requirements so you don't have to get a 7850 - it depends on the types of games she would like to play. The cheaper 7750/7770 would be my recommendation - I'm just guessing she's not into fps where high framerates are necessary.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/diablo-iii-performance-benchmark,3195-5.html

Does she already have a monitor? Take a look at the other threads for mid-range recommendations for cost of parts.
 
- what's the desired budget, $800? $900?
- what parts need to be bought, do you have anything other than the OS already?
- for her purposes of "good all rounder and diablo 3", overclocking the CPU is really not needed; how about building a quiet microATX system with an i5-3450?
- how much HDD space is actually needed? A 500GB drive can be had for $50 (clearance sale)
 
lehtv said:
- what's the desired budget, $800? $900?
- what parts need to be bought, do you have anything other than the OS already?
- for her purposes of "good all rounder and diablo 3", overclocking the CPU is really not needed; how about building a quiet microATX system with an i5-3450?
- how much HDD space is actually needed? A 500GB drive can be had for $50 (clearance sale)
Click to expand...

Everything I listed is what I need to buy so monitor, kb/mouse, etc are ok.

The only meaningful cpu downgrade is the i3 2100 which is $100 cheaper; all the quad core i5s are so close in price that it would hardly make or break. However, is the i3 an ok investment and if so, does it make sense to save on the mobo and get an H6x instead of Z77?

I can also save over $100 by going with a 7770; I've seen benchmarks put it between the 5770 and 6850 which doesn't make it sound all that great although it is indeed efficient. I doubt fps is on her radar, but if I peg the 7770 at 50% faster than my 5750 (with a somewhat comparable cpu), I feel 1080p is borderline for a game such as SC2. The 7850 is in a different class entirely.

Realistically, if I were to cut on storage I might go the hybrid route and get a momentus xt 750gb instead of ssd+hdd; most smaller 3.5" drives are not sufficiently cheaper to justify the loss of space, which is one of those things people learn how to fill up given the opportunity 🙂
 
Well H77 wouldn't actually be noticeably cheaper. Z77 is good for upgrading, you can upgrade the i3 to a used 3570K in a couple of years if things get more demanding, that's +50% higher multithreaded performance and another 20% per-core performance with OC.

7770 is a good idea for Diablo 3.

The Momentus XT 750GB is $160... not really such a good idea IMO. Just get a 128GB SSD and a storage drive to go with it, it won't cost much more.

So to list things, priced from NCIX/CC:

mobo Asrock Z77 Pro3 $130 ($100 AR) [NCIX]
cpu i3-2100 $120 [CC]
ram 2x4GB 1600Mhz $45 [CC]
gpu Sapphire 7770 $125 [CC]
ssd Crucial M4 128GB $120 [NCIX]
hdd Seagate 500GB 7200 $50 or Seagate 1TB 7200 $100 (faster as well) or Caviar Green 2TB 5400RPM $110 [CC]
dvd Samsung SH222-BB $17 [CC]
psu Antec HCG-520M $60 [NCIX]
case Antec One $45 ($35 AR) [CC] <--- sick deal, it's a very good budget case, only a bit on the small side. Fractal Design Core 3000 ($70, NCIX) would be more spacious and slightly better overall.

= $712 ($672 AR) with the smallest HDD, before shipping/tax

There's also a tempting deal on a 7850 2GB for $233 with free shipping... it's more than twice as powerful after OC, but way overkill for Diablo 3...

The PSU will support an i5 with OC and a GPU with two PCIe connectors, so there's no fear of having to upgrade this in a long time
 
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There arent many girls who play games that would actually run noticably better on a 3570k/7850 compared to a G870/7770. I would just get one of the new ib i3 when they launch next week, and a HD7770.
 
The Ivy Bridge i3's are likely to be more expensive not because they're noticeably faster, but because they offer even lower power consumption, a faster iGPU and PCIe 3.0 support, none of which really make any difference.
 
I expect the cheapest ib i3 to be $120 and be faster than an i3-2130. There's no reason to expect the price to be higher because they are getting like 30% more of these chips from a wafer.
 
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Will see. I'm sure newegg won't be selling last gen i3's for the same price as the new ones... so if IB i3 is going to be $120, i3-2100 is going to be $100-110.
 
fuzzymath10 said:
I'm trying to piece out a new system for my friend/coworker
Click to expand...

unless she is into computers or you want to be getting calls everytime the computer crashes for some reason (unstable over clock? ect), my advice would be to work towards something basic that works out of the box without tweeking. it also helps when looking to keep prices down.

cpu - getting a K is over kill, any savings going i5-3550 is fine for someone that is not after performance (looking at the T and S range is even more pointless as they cost extra for nothing the home user will really care about).

A i3 is nothing to sneeze at as the performance difference in day to day / office tasks is not that much for the price difference.

Besides, an i3 is lower power with only 2 cores. And the stock cooler will do the job quietly enough without spending $40 odd on a cooler to be even more quiet when the power supply or GPU will become the noisy part.

for MB, look at the H77 range, slightly cheaper than the z77 and still allows benifits like ssd caching (see below). If really wanting small, ASUS has a itx h77 motherboard around, but it will cost a little more vs say a Asrock H77 mATX board.

side note of looking at the H61 chipsets, is that some were not updated to support ivybridge, so unless looking at sticking to sandybridge cpus, it is best to avoid the H61 boards.

As to the SSD, how computer "smart" is this friend? Some people just had having to deal with two drives / drive letters. making the process pointless for the average person (ie: they install everything at default onto drive C and wonder why they start getting space error messages.

if going ssd, either look at getting a 60GB one for a SSD cache of the drive or drop it altogether.

for the HDD, try for space vs price to go the 2Tb, but if it is to be the main drive, getting a green drive (while quite) sucks in terms of performance. Does not matter how fast the system is if the user has the impression the computer is slow as it takes a while for programs to load.

Video card, way way over kill. espically given the friend wants quite. Diablo is not really that GPU hungry even at high res I find. Looking for something in the $200 range that is either dual sloted cooler or fan less would be better money spent personally. Been out of the specifics personally as my GTX570 is still running rings about all the things I through at it (cpu limited)

for the iGPU, any form of high res gaming is out. only good for light gaming and office tasks. I would not count on it for diablo, but have not checked any game reviews for diablo with it, but I suspect it will work, but far from good.

Case: best find a web site with some images and have them pick one out. cases really are a personal thing. if looking to save money, going for a Lian-li one seems overkill personally.

For the PSU, not too sure. As long as it is a reconized brand name is the main thing. As to power needed. with the current GPUs in the mid to high end peaking at 200W, a 300W is on the low side for sure.

hope that helps some.
 
Why not just get her an OEM machine, like a Dell, and plop in your own video card? That way if she has any problems with the machine she can contact Dell instead of bothering you.
 
fuzzymath10 said:
However my current total is a bit over $1000, and that's too much.
Click to expand...

How much is not too much then? I haven't seen a solid answer to this in the thread so far. If you're already posted the amount, then I apologize, but we really need to know what we're shooting for here.

fuzzymath10 said:
CPU: i5 3570k ($230-240) - most other quad cores are not sufficiently cheaper so the only real alternative is something like an i3 2100 which saves about $80-90.
Click to expand...

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Unless you're several hundred dollars off the mark (see first question), then trying to make a huge cut in any single area is going to leave you with an unbalanced system. $20-40 here and there adds up quick.
 
bononos said:
Do you happen to know the typical size of the psu in oem desktops like Dell? It used to be undersized for gaming needs.
Click to expand...

For a typical mid-tower system, you're talking about a PSU in the ~350W range. This is fine for any card that doesn't need supplemental PCIe power connectors. That means 6670 or GT 640 class. Those cards are not powerhouses when compared to "real" gaming cards, but they work fine for "mainstream" games like Portal, WoW, or Diablo III as long as you don't insist on maxing everything out.
 
mfenn said:
For a typical mid-tower system, you're talking about a PSU in the ~350W range. This is fine for any card that doesn't need supplemental PCIe power connectors. That means 6670 or GT 640 class. Those cards are not powerhouses when compared to "real" gaming cards, but they work fine for "mainstream" games like Portal, WoW, or Diablo III as long as you don't insist on maxing everything out.
Click to expand...
Yep thats what I thought and I would say it would be in the 300W range. The Dell Optiplex 990 ships with 265W as standard. The posters who are suggesting going oem seem to be ignorant on this point.
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19407535.aspx
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I gave a breakdown to her of the "low-mid" vs "mid-high" options so she'll have a look and choose each one piece by piece. The target was $700 before tax.

the 7770 is on sale for closer to $110 so I can actually justify it at that price. One of the other reasons I suggested the 3570K was if IGP was the final decision, since the HD4000 seems remotely capable of basic gaming. If I get a discrete GPU then I don't really care and the HD2500 should be fine. It's true that overclocking might be a waste; I'm happy with my 2400. Looks like it's $230 for a 3570k vs $200 for a 3450.

I've always had SSD+HDD combinations but no system I have supports caching. I was under the impression it wasn't that impressive but if someone begs to differ I'd consider it (this coming from someone who was relatively impressed by the momentus xt).

I bought myself an X-460 on the weekend for a decent price so I'm gonna let her have my S12II. If anybody cares to suggest a conservatively designed (few lights, living room appropriate) MATX case with filters that can hold a regular PSU I'm all ears, especially if its stock fans are remotely decent. I do think the A04 is quite nice having used one for 1.5 years.

I own a lot of pre-made stuff (Dell), but they're all laptops. I admit troubleshooting can always end up annoying but unless I'm extremely unlucky, I've had good experiences thus far with other friends or relatives. For them, most warranty service is completely useless in terms of turnaround time except for corporate support; dell completecare is incredible but costly.
 
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