Custom build (by a friend) vs Dell pros and cons: Suggestions?

[dg27]

I have owned three Dell desktops and one laptop and was always satisfied, but I'd like to replace my main workhorse machine (Dell 8400, Pentium 4, 3.4 GHz, 3 Gb RAM).

A friend who builds systems has been bugging me to let him build a custom machine for a nominal fee. I read a Dell vs custom build thread on this forum this morning and was surprised to read a lot of users say that if not overclocking or gaming is not involved, a Dell could be a better choice.

I have done many mods over the years, which were mainly upgrades to internal components, but have no interest in building per se: too skittish to be messing with motherbaords and the BIOS, etc. Using suggestions I saw on various threads on this forum I put together a proposed build (below). All prices are from Newegg. Below that I've pasted in a Dell system I put together this a.m. The price reflects a discount I get thru my job.

One of the things I have against having my friend do the build is that he's very "anti": anti Dell, anti-Intel, anti lots of things. And I'm not really comfortable with having to go back to him if something serious that I can't handle goes wrong.

I realize the custom build specs might be flawed, so any input would be appreciated. I picked a motherboard that had three PCI slots (it was the only I could find that was compatible with that processor that did).

Really trying to decide which way to go. Any help anyone can provide would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

DG


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Heaviest requirements involve photo processing using Adobe CS 3 (will upgrade to CS4 soon). I work with very large RAW files and typically like to have several open at once. Burning of CDs/DVDs using Nero 8. No gaming at all. I don't watch movies on the PC.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

$1600 max (without monitor, keyboard, mouse)

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.

Intel, WD Velocoraptor.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Linksys WMP54GS wireless card

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Have read many posts on many forums including anandtech about individual components, but not too many system building threads.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Default.

8. WHEN do you plan to build it?

ASAP (It would be built by a friend for a fee.)

*****


Custom Build

Windows XP Home(license I own)
Antec P183 Black Aluminum $179.95
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB $159.99
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz $269.99
Intel BOXDP45SG LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard $114.99
CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 $79.49
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V $99.99
EVGA 512-P3-N856-LR GeForce 9600 GT 512MB $99.99
Turtle Beach Montego DDL 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card $44.99
LG Black 22X (CAV) DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X (two) $49.98

$1099.36

Misc extras (add'l fans, etc.) $100
Build $200

$1399.36
*****************
Dell

Windows XP Pro (new license; pre-installed).
XPS 630 Intel® Core?2 Q9550 (12MB,2.83GHz, 1333FSB)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Bonus
System Color Black Bezel Chassis
Memory 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
Video Card ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB
Hard Drive 300GB WD Velociraptor 10K RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed) Microsoft Works 9.0
Warranty & Service 1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
Datasafe Dell Online Backup 2GB for 1 year
LABELS Vista Premium Downgrade Transactional Desktop
Cooling Option XPS Standard System Cooling
TOTAL: $1,539.00

 

[mpilchfamily]

For what you need an OEM would be best.

As for the list of parts for the custom build... Ditch the sound card. You don't need it and the on board audio will be more then sufficient. You'll want more storage for that. Yes the speed of the raptor will be nice for faster boots but you don't need it. Get a 500Gb or 1Tb Barracuda. If your going custom build you should really be looking at the i7 CPUs and motherboard. Then you can put 6gb or more RAM into the system. That will help speed things up for your photo editing. Another problem is the OS and RAM combination. If you want the full 4gb of RAM available you'll need a 64bit OS. XP home just isn't going to cut it. So you will have to spend the extra $199 for a copy of Vista 64. OR you can wait for win 7 to be released.

The Dell system you have listed is more of a gamer oriented system. Here is what i would go with. Go to Dells site and choose the studio XPS 435 base unit. Upgrade it to 6gb of RAM and your good to go.

http://www.dell.com/content/pr...19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs

Its a much cheaper and better performing option then anything you have listed. All for under $1200.

 

[dg27]

Thanks, mpilch for all of the advice. My thinking on the 4 GB RAM was that I'm going to stick with XP till Win7 has been out a while. At that point I'd replace the RAM (I know XP is only going to see about 3.25 Gb). I really don't want to go to Vista.

I'll check out that Dell.

Thanks again.

DG

 

[dg27]

Unfortunately the Studio 435 is Vista only (a dealbreaker for me).

I'll revise my custom specs to reflect the i7 CPU.

DG

 

[brblx]

i would probably go pre-built but it looks like you're exceeding your needs by quite a bit.

http://www.dell.com/content/pr...?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

the 799 model has a c2q, 6gb of memory and comes with a 20 inch monitor. unfortunately they won't let you do things like remove the monitor or downgrade the (typically way overpriced) memory to save cash, but it's still a good deal.

edit- don't pay dell for xp, they want $130 bucks for it and are still going to charge you for vista. i'd buy my own copy if you feel comfortable installing it. (not hard)

 

[Fedaykin311]

First things first, you'll need a 64 bit version of windows if you want to actually use more than about 3.15 GB of RAM.

 

[heyheybooboo]

An e8400 or Phenom 720BE, 64-bit OS, 8Gb of RAMs is a good place to start.

Photoshop and the vast majority of plugins aren't really optimized for quads. Plenty of RAMs and fast disk I/O is the way to go. Using your Raptor for an OS/Apps drive, a nice capture/scratch drive and a big drive for storage will work great.

As far as the Q9550 and your buddy is concerned I think he's just trying to look out for you. A PhII 940BE/Gigabyte 790x combo may be purchased for the cost of the Q9550 alone. Think RAM and disk I/O for maximum benefit.

Is there a reason you feel the need for 3 PCI slots?

 

[dg27]

Thanks for your input.

I've done plenty of XP installations, but I chatted online a little while ago with Dell about the "Vista only" systems (they greatly limit the availability of XP). They said that XP "won't work" on the Vista only systems. I think what they mean is that those machines don't have XP drivers installed (which are loaded with XP anyway). Does that sound right? I have an extra XP disc.

As far as exceeding my needs, really I just need Adobe CS3 /4 to run very quickly. That's the biggest resource hog I have. Also trying to future-proof myself a little bit since I tend to keep machines for 3 years or more.

 

[dg27]

>>Is there a reason you feel the need for 3 PCI slots?

I need one for my Linksys wireless card, one for a sound card and one just in case...

>>>PhII 940BE/Gigabyte 790x

I'll check that out.

>>>Using your Raptor for an OS/Apps drive, a nice capture/scratch drive and a big drive for storage will work great.

That's what I plan.

Thanks.

dg

 

[Fedaykin311]

Overall I recommend the Dell. Unless you enjoy building your own box, there's nothing in your usage that warrants the hassle of a DIY rig. Just make sure they are giving you a 64 bit OS because if Photoshop is something you use a lot, a great performance boost for the future will be more RAM.

For the DIY build:

* Why are you planning to buy an add-on sound card? Modern motherboards have good quality audio onboard. Unless you are doing serious audio work or gaming, there's no reason to buy an add-on sound card.

* You might think about getting an i7 CPU and Motherboard. If you ditch the unneeded sound card, you'll just about break even on price, and have an upgrade path for the future. The Core2 based processors are essentially at the end of the line performance wise.

* I got an SSD for my system drive, and it was worth every single penny of the high price. You disk drive is the slowest major component in the entire machine other than your network connection so you'll feel an upgrade in it's speed a lot more than anything else.

 

[dg27]

I suspect the inclusion of a soundcard is just an indication that I never had a modern motherboard! Thanks for pointing that out.

As far as 32 vs 64 bit OS, wouldn't I need 64 bit versions of all of my programs to realize the performance increases? Or is the 32 vs 64 bit just tied to the OS?

Regarding the Dell options, the only one with XP is the XPS 630 (which is why Im spec'd it out). I really don't want Vista, either 32 or 64 bit.

Thanks.

dg

 

[alyarb]

i'm pretty sure that CS4, like most of the adobe suite, will install an x64-compatible version if it detects an x86-64 OS. Use WinXP x64.

 

[Fedaykin311]

64 bit OSs can run 32 bit apps (just not 32 bit drivers). More importantly, there really isn't a performance increase for most apps by going to 64 bit (Photoshop might benefit given it's manipulating large amounts of data, though I couldn't say for sure).

The reason you need a 64 bit OS is to allow more than ~3GB of RAM to be usable. A 32 Bit OS can only handle 4GB (2^32 bits) of address space, and address space is consumed by every component connected to your machine (Video card memory, CPU cache, etc.). The result is you have only about 3GB of address space for RAM to use.

With a 64 bit machine, you have 2^64 bits of address space which is about 16 exabytes (16 billion gigabytes). In other words, it'll be a LONG time before you can max out the memory of a 64 bit machine

If you are Ok with not being able to use all 4GB you buy in the machine (or be able to upgrade later), you can stick with 32 bit XP. However, I personally think that would be unwise

 

[dg27]

>>If you are Ok with not being able to use all 4GB you buy in the machine (or be able to upgrade later), you can stick with 32 bit XP. However, I personally think that would be unwise

I'm OK with not being able to use all 4 Gb when running XP, but if say, I get a machine running 32 bit XP, can't I later install more ram later when I move to Win7 assuming I install the 64 bit version? I'm not sure what you mean by not being able to upgrade later.

Thanks.

DG

 

[Fedaykin311]

Oh sorry, I was unclear. Yeah you can always upgrade to a 64 bit OS later and use all the RAM. I just meant that with 32 bit XP you wouldn't get any benefit from upgrading the amount of RAM you have since you'd already be maxed out.

If you are OK with that limitation, it's probably OK to stick with your existing copy. However, someone more familiar with Photoshop might be able to tell you if there's any significant performance enhancement of using a 64 bit OS.

 

[Fedaykin311]

While I am babbling. I am in a similar position with RAM and OS needs. I just put together a machine with 6GB of RAM but only have a 32 bit XP Pro. Tonight I am going to download the Win 7 RC and give it a shot because, like you, I don't want to buy or use Vista. It's something you might consider if the machine you are building isn't mission critical type hardware.

 

[dg27]

Thanks for clarifying.

My Dell choices are limited to the XPS 630 with 32 bit XP because I do not want Vista. But folks seem to think that machine isn't appropriate. In a way I'd rather do that and avoid the DYI thing if I could. For the custom I should revise my specs to include the i7 CPUs and also look at the PhII 940BE/Gigabyte 790x combo. Make sense?

As an aside, I'd really like to know why the XPS 630 wouldn't be OK for my needs and then some... (I'd rather it be more than enough than slow.)

 

[TheStu]

I think that they are meaning that there are certain aspects of it that you will not be taking advantage of. The 4GB RAM issue has been done to death, and I am not going to ask why you don't want Vista.

The graphics card is a 4850, you don't need that. Not with CS3 at least. I think CS4 will do GPU offloading, but don't quote me on that.
The processor is a Quad core, as other have pointed out, Photoshop cannot utilize Quads.

Do you really need 2 optical drives?
Do not get Dell's DataSafe online backup, just sign up for Mozy or DropBox.

If you do decide to downgrade the card, don't go all the way down to the bottom. If Dell still operates like they used to, then if you do not get a separate graphics card now, then adding it later can be trying.

 

[M0RPH]

Not sure how you're getting your Dell quote but I just priced out an i7 system with the Radeon 4850 for $999 from here.

Then you can buy the Velociraptor for about $200 and use the 640GB drive that comes with the Dell as a secondary drive.

It's crazy to pay someone $200 to build a computer.

 

[dg27]

TheStu: Thanks for the thoughtful reply. My friend had led me to believe that these days a quad core was the only way to go, even if it meant that I wouldn't see the benefit in CS3 or CS4: that everything would be faster).

I do need two optical drives because I copy CDs of my own music @ times (and it was only $30).

dg

 

[dg27]

Morph: I was staying way from the Studio XPS's because they only come with Vista.

Only the XPS 630 can be configured with XP.

Are all you guys really saying that I'm better off with a 64 bit Vista system? Been reading horror stories for months, which is why I've resisted taking the plunge: planned on just moving to Win7 well after it's released.

Thanks.

DG

 

[M0RPH]

The horror stories about Vista are bunk. Anyway, why not just download the Windows 7 RC and use that until it's released?

 

[dg27]

Morph: I need this machine everyday for business as well as personal use. I've avoided 64 bit because I'm concerned about older programs not running. And I'd rather not turn this string into a Vista debate. Like a lot of users, I'm happy with XP and will wait for a full version of Win7 (after SP1, most likely).

Thanks.

DG

 

[TheStu]

I have Vista 64 installed on my desktop, and aside from really, really old programs, everything runs. As Morph said, the horror stories are bunk, Vista is fine. 7 is better, but Vista is fine (and besides, since you are buying a copy of 7 anyway... might as well get the OS that you can upgrade from).

Although Quad is good, it is pretty much 'fact' that 3 GHz Dual Core (just pulling numbers out of the air) will perform faster in almost every regard as compared to a 2GHz Quad Core. So, for what you are primarily going to be doing, I would recommend a fast dual core... really fast.

However, based on the fact that you want XP, then the system you configured may be your best bet. It is more a 'gaming' system than anything, hence why the lowest option is for a 4850 and you can opt to add a Killer NIC to the system.

 

[brblx]

personally, the way it looks like you're going, i'd buy one of the good sub-$1000 dell deals with pretty much everything you need and immediately crack it open and swap for a faster HD, which you can load your copy of XP onto for the time being. give it a year and see if it's worth it to you to make the jump to a 64bit OS (be it xp or win7). you'd also have a free copy of vista (just make restore discs and format the oem drive) if you ever wanted to use it.

i would also say eff a quad core and just go with a fast dual, but quad cores may play more of a role in the future, so it may be worth it to go with an inexpensive c2q. but not an i7, imo.