Current state of the human race..

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ryan
Current western culture is too self serving - too self centered for the world to reach mass enlightenment.

:laugh:

oh please teach us, enlightened one

Seriously - how can a culture that values rampant individualism ever reach a level where compassion for everyone is possible? Compassion for others and all goes directly against the grain of western culture.

As opposed to what other cultures on this planet?? You think other cultures are more compassionate then all other western civilizations as a whole? Or are you speaking of American's specifically? Funny that we do more for the rest of the world, regardless of happenstance. Take the Thailand tsunami for instance, who gave all that we could - manpower and resources. There were countries that could have given a lot more and didn't, nor would they ever in light of such tragedies. You just don't get out much.

As I've already said. Its most ironic that you of all people would spout this nonsense, considering your own lifestyle. But then again, I can only assume that your uneducated and probably have no clue how you would be treated in most every culture that hasn't been westernized, if only slightly.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Vic
Exactly where have I tried to force you to do anything?

The rest I backed up soundly. Note that no one here supports you, but several have supported me. That should have been your first clue. You are now officially trolling.

There you go again with your vehement opposition. I suppose I'm not the only one with issues.

Since the beginning I've said my opinion is not logical and that I don't expect support for it. I may have a disgusting opinion, but at least I'm not some sort of hypocritical egotist who thinks that he needs to "gain support" against people on a forum because of their opinion.

I left this sort of behaviour behind in the playground years ago, you should too. Get over yourself.

If anyone's trolling, it's you. You've not been able to leave my opinion alone since the beginning, and have not rested until you could turn this into a full-blown forum fight. Pathetic.

 

[jhayx7]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic
Ok this isn't the borg. For us to reach the next step we can't operate independent of each other, that is the problem now. We need to work together twords the greater good, which would benefit all of us in the end but most people are too self-consumed to care.

What is this "greater good" which would benefit all of us if it does not benefit at least one of us?
Who's talking about operating independent of each other? Obviously to help one is to help all. What's being exposed here is that some people have ultra-selfish desires for some personal vision of utopia and then try to lie to others (as they have lied to themselves) about their personal opinion being for the "greater good" of all. It's this delusion that leads to the arguments of the "greater good" involving weeding out undesirables (i.e. eugenics) or for all the humanity to be exterminated.

I am not talking about eugenics or all of humanity to be exterminated (I'll leave that for you guys to figure out), I consider the greater good to be something that effects all of man kind in a positive manner. For starters, we could all be more compasionate twords our fellow man, stop being so selfish in our wants and desires and start helping the people who are not as fortunate. Be more friendly and accepting of others. We could also do a better job of protecting our environment for our future generations.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Vic
Exactly where have I tried to force you to do anything?

The rest I backed up soundly. Note that no one here supports you, but several have supported me. That should have been your first clue. You are now officially trolling.

There you go again with your vehement opposition. I suppose I'm not the only one with issues.

Since the beginning I've said my opinion is not logical and that I don't expect support for it. I may have a disgusting opinion, but at least I'm not some sort of hypocritical egotist who thinks that he needs to "gain support" against people on a forum because of their opinion.

I left this sort of behaviour behind in the playground years ago, you should too. Get over yourself.

Ah I see. And where does your precious opinion -- which is apparently above reproach -- end? Shall we start rounding up all the people into the concentration camps and firing up the gas chambers in order to satisfy your all important and sacred personal opinion of utopia?

:roll:

STFU troll.

edit to your edit:

If anyone's trolling, it's you. You've not been able to leave my opinion alone since the beginning, and have not rested until you could turn this into a full-blown forum fight. Pathetic.

That's because you're perfect example to use to expose the fallacies in the so-called "greater good" argument. And wah! you haven't been able to defend it so you've been whining and crying ever since.

 

[AMDZen]

Ulfhednar and Vic, seriously you guys need to take your lovin' to PM messages. Quit killing the thread and the decent conversation that could perhaps be evoked from the subject at hand.

W(ho)TF cares?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Vic
Ah I see. And where does your precious opinion -- which is apparently above reproach -- end? Shall we start rounding up all the people into the concentration camps and firing up the gas chambers in order to satisfy your all important and sacred personal opinion of utopia?

:roll:

STFU troll.

So now you've gone from ad hominem to slippery slope fallacies? Seriously, you're the one trolling here. I've done nothing all along except ask you what your huge problem with my opinion is.

Like I said, take your own advice. See your sig for details.

 

[AgentJean]

"Humanity has no more time" - Gendo Ikari.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic
Ok this isn't the borg. For us to reach the next step we can't operate independent of each other, that is the problem now. We need to work together twords the greater good, which would benefit all of us in the end but most people are too self-consumed to care.

What is this "greater good" which would benefit all of us if it does not benefit at least one of us?
Who's talking about operating independent of each other? Obviously to help one is to help all. What's being exposed here is that some people have ultra-selfish desires for some personal vision of utopia and then try to lie to others (as they have lied to themselves) about their personal opinion being for the "greater good" of all. It's this delusion that leads to the arguments of the "greater good" involving weeding out undesirables (i.e. eugenics) or for all the humanity to be exterminated.

I am not talking about eugenics or all of humanity to be exterminated (I'll leave that for you guys to figure out), I consider the greater good to be something that effects all of man kind in a positive manner. For starters, we could all be more compasionate twords our fellow man, stop being so selfish in our wants and desires and start helping the people who are not as fortunate. Be more friendly and accepting of others. We could also do a better job of protecting our environment for our future generations.

So you agree that the "greater good" begins with fostering the interest of individuals then? After all, how would you start helping those who are not as fortunate if you didn't start by helping one single less fortunate person? How could we stop being so selfish in our wants and desires if each person does not beginning with themselves? How do we protect the environment if not from personal accountability?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Vic
Ah I see. And where does your precious opinion -- which is apparently above reproach -- end? Shall we start rounding up all the people into the concentration camps and firing up the gas chambers in order to satisfy your all important and sacred personal opinion of utopia?

:roll:

STFU troll.

So now you've gone from ad hominem to slippery slope fallacies? Seriously, you're the one trolling here. I've done nothing all along except ask you what your huge problem with my opinion is.

Like I said, take your own advice. See your sig for details.

Slippery slope is not necessarily a fallacy. Text As to my sig, you said you wanted all of humanity to die. I'm not asking you not to hold that opinion, I'm asking you to shut up with your idiocy.

 

[ElFenix]

knowing that in every civilization that has ever existed, people have taken advantage of it to benefit themselves, isn't the best society the one that harnesses such drive?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Vic
Slippery slope is not necessarily a fallacy. Text As to my sig, you said you wanted all of humanity to die. I'm not asking you not to hold that opinion, I'm asking you to shut up with your idiocy.

WTF? Of course a slippery slope is a fallacy, especially the way you used it (comparing me to Hitler? Please, not even original.) At least you admit to using one anyway.

Asking me to shut up with my idiocy. Again, see your sig.

You're so emotional for someone not feeling threatened by someone elses opinion, and I see you're also ragging on someone else for their opinion too. Wow, just wow, and to think I thought I had mental problems.

 

[jhayx7]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ryan
Current western culture is too self serving - too self centered for the world to reach mass enlightenment.

:laugh:

oh please teach us, enlightened one

Seriously - how can a culture that values rampant individualism ever reach a level where compassion for everyone is possible? Compassion for others and all goes directly against the grain of western culture.

As opposed to what other cultures on this planet?? You think other cultures are more compassionate then all other western civilizations as a whole? Or are you speaking of American's specifically? Funny that we do more for the rest of the world, regardless of happenstance. Take the Thailand tsunami for instance, who gave all that we could - manpower and resources. There were countries that could have given a lot more and didn't, nor would they ever in light of such tragedies. You just don't get out much.

As I've already said. Its most ironic that you of all people would spout this nonsense, considering your own lifestyle. But then again, I can only assume that your uneducated and probably have no clue how you would be treated in most every culture that hasn't been westernized, if only slightly.

About the tsunami bit... Comparing donations vs. countries GNP, we were put to shame by Australia's donations. Calling someone uneducated is not nice :disgust:

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: d3n
I think each generation looks back with fondness about how things were. However as the negatives appear in the global community there are advancements that make lives easier.

Exactly. We all think the world's going down the tubes, but none of us would have wanted to grow up a generation ago.

 

[DeadByDawn]

Well since I haven't had to club anybody to steal a gazelle leg to feed my family this week I think we're doing ok.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ryan
Current western culture is too self serving - too self centered for the world to reach mass enlightenment.

:laugh:

oh please teach us, enlightened one

Seriously - how can a culture that values rampant individualism ever reach a level where compassion for everyone is possible? Compassion for others and all goes directly against the grain of western culture.

As opposed to what other cultures on this planet?? You think other cultures are more compassionate then all other western civilizations as a whole? Or are you speaking of American's specifically? Funny that we do more for the rest of the world, regardless of happenstance. Take the Thailand tsunami for instance, who gave all that we could - manpower and resources. There were countries that could have given a lot more and didn't, nor would they ever in light of such tragedies. You just don't get out much.

As I've already said. Its most ironic that you of all people would spout this nonsense, considering your own lifestyle. But then again, I can only assume that your uneducated and probably have no clue how you would be treated in most every culture that hasn't been westernized, if only slightly.

About the tsunami bit... Comparing donations vs. countries GNP, we were put to shame by Australia's donations. Calling someone uneducated is not nice :disgust:

Australia isn't a western civilization? Hmmm. You will notice that I asked if he was talking western culture as a whole or American's specifically. But assumed he meant ALL western civilizations since thats what he said. And thus, I was talking about western countries as a whole in the tsunami bit.

 

[jdini76]

Are humans a "race" I just thought we were a "kind" as in "human kind".

 

[jhayx7]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic
Ok this isn't the borg. For us to reach the next step we can't operate independent of each other, that is the problem now. We need to work together twords the greater good, which would benefit all of us in the end but most people are too self-consumed to care.

What is this "greater good" which would benefit all of us if it does not benefit at least one of us?
Who's talking about operating independent of each other? Obviously to help one is to help all. What's being exposed here is that some people have ultra-selfish desires for some personal vision of utopia and then try to lie to others (as they have lied to themselves) about their personal opinion being for the "greater good" of all. It's this delusion that leads to the arguments of the "greater good" involving weeding out undesirables (i.e. eugenics) or for all the humanity to be exterminated.

I am not talking about eugenics or all of humanity to be exterminated (I'll leave that for you guys to figure out), I consider the greater good to be something that effects all of man kind in a positive manner. For starters, we could all be more compasionate twords our fellow man, stop being so selfish in our wants and desires and start helping the people who are not as fortunate. Be more friendly and accepting of others. We could also do a better job of protecting our environment for our future generations.

So you agree that the "greater good" begins with fostering the interest of individuals then? After all, how would you start helping those who are not as fortunate if you didn't start by helping one single less fortunate person? How could we stop being so selfish in our wants and desires if each person does not beginning with themselves? How do we protect the environment if not from personal accountability?

Yes, the "greater good" will effect everyone so yes, everyone will have a shard interest, if not, it wouldn't be the "greater good" would it? Personal accountability is thrown out the window "IF" everyone adheres to the same goal but since we are selfish by nature, we need peronal accountability for our actions.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
WTF? Of course a slippery slope is a fallacy, especially the way you used it (comparing me to Hitler? Please, not even original.) At least you admit to using one anyway.

The slippery slope fallacy consists of claiming that one event will inevitably lead to another, and then another, until something rhetorically undesireable occurs as a direct result. Proper usage of the argument takes into account probabilities of each event causing the next.

It's also a fallacy to deny causation, in other words, to accuse every slippery slope argument of being fallacious simply by virtue of being a slippery slope.

 

[jhayx7]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
WTF? Of course a slippery slope is a fallacy, especially the way you used it (comparing me to Hitler? Please, not even original.) At least you admit to using one anyway.

The slippery slope fallacy consists of claiming that one event will inevitably lead to another, and then another, until something rhetorically undesireable occurs as a direct result. Proper usage of the argument takes into account probabilities of each event causing the next.

It's also a fallacy to deny causation, in other words, to accuse every slippery slope argument of being fallacious simply by virtue of being a slippery slope.

The slippery slope fallacy caused me to have my bumps, bruises, and cuts as a kid, or was that the slip-n-slide

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Originally posted by: Vic
Ok this isn't the borg. For us to reach the next step we can't operate independent of each other, that is the problem now. We need to work together twords the greater good, which would benefit all of us in the end but most people are too self-consumed to care.

What is this "greater good" which would benefit all of us if it does not benefit at least one of us?
Who's talking about operating independent of each other? Obviously to help one is to help all. What's being exposed here is that some people have ultra-selfish desires for some personal vision of utopia and then try to lie to others (as they have lied to themselves) about their personal opinion being for the "greater good" of all. It's this delusion that leads to the arguments of the "greater good" involving weeding out undesirables (i.e. eugenics) or for all the humanity to be exterminated.

I am not talking about eugenics or all of humanity to be exterminated (I'll leave that for you guys to figure out), I consider the greater good to be something that effects all of man kind in a positive manner. For starters, we could all be more compasionate twords our fellow man, stop being so selfish in our wants and desires and start helping the people who are not as fortunate. Be more friendly and accepting of others. We could also do a better job of protecting our environment for our future generations.

So you agree that the "greater good" begins with fostering the interest of individuals then? After all, how would you start helping those who are not as fortunate if you didn't start by helping one single less fortunate person? How could we stop being so selfish in our wants and desires if each person does not beginning with themselves? How do we protect the environment if not from personal accountability?

Yes, the "greater good" will effect everyone so yes, everyone will have a shard interest, if not, it wouldn't be the "greater good" would it? Personal accountability is thrown out the window "IF" everyone adheres to the same goal but since we are selfish by nature, we need peronal accountability for our actions.

We *DON'T* already have personal accountability for our actions?

 

[jhayx7]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: jhayx7

Yes, the "greater good" will effect everyone so yes, everyone will have a shard interest, if not, it wouldn't be the "greater good" would it? Personal accountability is thrown out the window "IF" everyone adheres to the same goal but since we are selfish by nature, we need personal accountability for our actions.

We *DON'T* already have personal accountability for our actions?

Of course we do

I was stating that we need/have them because of our nature.

 

[Fritzo]

Haven't people been asking this for the last 4000 years?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ryan
Current western culture is too self serving - too self centered for the world to reach mass enlightenment.

:laugh:

oh please teach us, enlightened one

Seriously - how can a culture that values rampant individualism ever reach a level where compassion for everyone is possible? Compassion for others and all goes directly against the grain of western culture.

As opposed to what other cultures on this planet?? You think other cultures are more compassionate then all other western civilizations as a whole? Or are you speaking of American's specifically? Funny that we do more for the rest of the world, regardless of happenstance. Take the Thailand tsunami for instance, who gave all that we could - manpower and resources. There were countries that could have given a lot more and didn't, nor would they ever in light of such tragedies. You just don't get out much.

As I've already said. Its most ironic that you of all people would spout this nonsense, considering your own lifestyle. But then again, I can only assume that your uneducated and probably have no clue how you would be treated in most every culture that hasn't been westernized, if only slightly.

I think he's trying to say we should become a Communist culture, you know, how Mao + Stalin killed like 100 million people. So sad, in a communist society Ryan would get his nuts chopped off, yet he worships it as if it's the enlightened way.